How to find a jeweler who carries AGS graded diamonds

[LoveLikeCrazy]

Hey everyone!

We plan on purchasing online, but would like to see examples of AGS0 graded stones in person. I have gone through the AGS website, and then "find a jeweler" - yet, when i email these jewelers listed, they do NOT carry AGS graded stones . We have walked into numerous stand alone jewelers, and they all carry EGL and/or GIA, but no AGS. They also like to tell me how GIA is much better blah blah. I certainly have no problem with a GIA graded stone that scores well on HCA and has great IS images, etc - but i will not be directly picking out my own stone - and i know that an AGS0 graded stone is pretty dummy proof for the SO to pick out a nice stone. LOL

So can anyone help? Or do i have to try and call every jeweler in the state? I live within driving distance (well 3.5 hours) from NY and i live about an hour outside of Boston (if anyone knows a jeweler there that carries AGS, i'd love to know!), but i'd rather not invest that much time just to SEE stones in person when we know we will be purchasing online (most likely through WF). Thanks in advance!

 

[denverappraiser]

Jareds is a fairly large chain that carries them if there's one near you. Also Ben Bridge and Helzburg are AGS member firms with lots of stores that carry at least a certain amount of inventory. These are major players out here but your neighborhood may be different.

Nearly any store can get them if they want. To a large extent diamonds have become a special order sort of business. Some won't do it, especially if they get the feel from you that your plan is to get as much 'free' work out of them as possible and then do your purchasing elsewhere but it never hurts to ask.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Also, Hearts on Fire is a brand of ideal cut, hearts and arrows diamonds. I found a jeweler who carried those and went to look at them. They were priced crazy and it made me appreciate the stones I bought from vendors here! But it was a great way to look at one in person!

 

[LoveLikeCrazy]

Thank you both for your replies. No Jared's in my state but I think there is one in CT that might be within driving distance. We don't have helzberg either. I do know we have some hearts on fire dealers close though. Would this be similar in cut to what an AGS0 stone would look like in person?

Since we are interested in buying online, I would not feel comfortable in having a stone called in just to look at.

Thank you again

 

[WinkHPD]

If you are in the New York area you can visit Jonathon of Good Old Gold and also Diamonds by Lauren if I am not mistaken

I believe the listing that you are looking up on the AGS sight are AGS affiliated jewelers who have pledged to hold themselves to a high ethical standard. For them not to then also carry AGS papered diamonds has always seemed incongruous to me. I am sure that Good Old Gold and Diamonds by Lauren are not the only B & M jewelers in the area that you mention so if you do a search of the Pricescope recommended jewelers you will find out who they are. You might even find that they have the diamond that you desire as any of the Pricescope recommended jewelers are likely to have some top quality diamonds available.

Wink

P.S. As a jeweler, I am pleased to see your comment that you would not feel comfortable calling a stone in just to look at it when you know you will be buying elsewhere.

P.P.S. May I ask what it is that you hope to see when looking at the AGS report or diamond? As with any paper, there are great looking AGS papered diamonds and loser AGS papered diamonds. How is looking at one going to tell you something about the laboratory grading reports as a whole?

 

[LoveLikeCrazy]

Wink, thanks for your comments. We have debated the trip to LI to see stones in person, but I don't like wasting anyone's time and he isn't ready to purchase immediately, it would be within the next few months. We might revisit the thought when he is ready to buy, he would rather buy from B&M. It took me a rather long time to get him into the idea to save money (and sales tax) from purchasing online. He just kinda wants to see an idea of what he is buying (visually). I have shown him videos from Jonathan showing an excellent GIA stone vs a VG GIA graded stone but he thinks they didn't look different (this is where the problem lies...lol).

Regarding the AGS grading, I have just read that the AGS0 stones are already graded for light performance and it would be a dummy proof way to ensure that SO would purchase an ideal diamond. I have been pushing him in the way of WF ACA diamonds and expert selection. I have read that GIA range of excellent varies greatly. He really doesn't have much of an interest in the intricacies of the angles or hca, idealscopes or asets but he does have an interest in getting me what I want. Please correct me if I am wrong with that thought process.

I have lurked here a while and I have come a long way. I originally wanted a T&Co solitaire, but I now want an ideal cut diamond in a Vatche U113.

Thank you again for your ideas/assistance.

 

[DelsFan]

I too am about to make (to me) a sizable diamond purchase, and I too have heard/read that some GIA ex,ex,ex diamonds look a lot better than others. When I go to my local store and ask about their "ideal cut" diamonds they say hearts and arrows is just a gimmick, the photos of those stones are taken from the bottom of the diamond not the top (so? don't these diamonds still look better from the top?), it's all just a gimmick. Maybe so, but the "gimmick" diamonds I see photos of posted here seem to look a lot better than the real diamonds I see in many B&M stores!

What must one do to get a really great looking diamond? Does an AGS0 diamond automatically mean that diamond would be in the top 1% or top 1/2%? Same for "Hearts on Fire" diamonds and "Hearts and Arrows" diamonds - do either of these mean the diamond will be spectacular, do these designations automatically indicate an AGS0 diamond or can some of these look (significantly) better than others? How about "Forevermark" diamonds - I glanced at a five-stone forevermark ring (2.0 carats total, all the diamonds the same size) that was priced similarly to some 14-stone (full) eternities I've been looking at with some PriceScope vendors, believing they vendors (here) were going to sell me 14 spectacular "ideal" cut AGS0 stones. Does one just pay half again or double for forevermark stones for no reason or are they really better?

What is a consumer to do other than ask for ideal scope and aset images and then, as a consumer, learn to interpret them? Insist on HCA somewhere around 2.0 as another benchmark?

This is a good thread; I'll look forward to hearing some more responses!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hearts on Fire and other hearts and arrows ideal cut diamonds are at the top of the ideal cut range. Most ideal cut stones are worthy of buying, but I have seen a few posted here that I would not buy. Hearts on Fire would be similar in cut quality to WhiteFlash ACA, Good Old Gold Superior hearts and arrows, Infinity, Brian Gavin Signature, etc. Regular ideal cuts that are not to the top cut level will be like WF Expert Selection, Good Old Gold premium, etc.

Definitely go look at the Hearts on Fire. It is your best way to view stones in the best cut category. Just don't buy!

(del, you will overpay if you buy a hearts and arrows ideal cut stone locally in most cases. I would urge you to look but not buy without checking for comparable prices here.)

 

[WinkHPD]

Wink, thanks for your comments. We have debated the trip to LI to see stones in person, but I don't like wasting anyone's time and he isn't ready to purchase immediately, it would be within the next few months. We might revisit the thought when he is ready to buy, he would rather buy from B&M. It took me a rather long time to get him into the idea to save money (and sales tax) from purchasing online. He just kinda wants to see an idea of what he is buying (visually). I have shown him videos from Jonathan showing an excellent GIA stone vs a VG GIA graded stone but he thinks they didn't look different (this is where the problem lies...lol).

Regarding the AGS grading, I have just read that the AGS0 stones are already graded for light performance and it would be a dummy proof way to ensure that SO would purchase an ideal diamond. I have been pushing him in the way of WF ACA diamonds and expert selection. I have read that GIA range of excellent varies greatly. He really doesn't have much of an interest in the intricacies of the angles or hca, idealscopes or asets but he does have an interest in getting me what I want. Please correct me if I am wrong with that thought process.

I have lurked here a while and I have come a long way. I originally wanted a T&Co solitaire, but I now want an ideal cut diamond in a Vatche U113.

Thank you again for your ideas/assistance.

You are very welcome. I would like to address your comments before going on to DelsFan's letter so I am going to do both in one post.

I will agree with you that the likely hood of getting a great looking ideal cut diamond is better with an AGS papered diamond than a GIA papered diamond due to the wide range of permissible angle combinations, particularly the steep deep combinations allowed by GIA as still being excellent cutting. However, I will continue to believe that the final selection must be made by YOUR eye. Be sure to have the right to return the diamond if it does not make YOUR eye happy. You will have that with most of the Pricescope vendors, if not all.

While not agreeing to the words, "Dummy Proof," I think you are very likely to be happy with an AGS papered diamond when choosing by cut. Be aware though that even in the AGS 0 cut grade, there are those diamonds at the bottom of the grade and those at the top, and the human eye will always be able to choose a "First amongst equals" for its taste when two or more are viewed at the same time.

Good luck with your search.

I too am about to make (to me) a sizable diamond purchase, and I too have heard/read that some GIA ex,ex,ex diamonds look a lot better than others. When I go to my local store and ask about their "ideal cut" diamonds they say hearts and arrows is just a gimmick, the photos of those stones are taken from the bottom of the diamond not the top (so? don't these diamonds still look better from the top?), it's all just a gimmick. Maybe so, but the "gimmick" diamonds I see photos of posted here seem to look a lot better than the real diamonds I see in many B&M stores!

What must one do to get a really great looking diamond? Does an AGS0 diamond automatically mean that diamond would be in the top 1% or top 1/2%? Same for "Hearts on Fire" diamonds and "Hearts and Arrows" diamonds - do either of these mean the diamond will be spectacular, do these designations automatically indicate an AGS0 diamond or can some of these look (significantly) better than others? How about "Forevermark" diamonds - I glanced at a five-stone forevermark ring (2.0 carats total, all the diamonds the same size) that was priced similarly to some 14-stone (full) eternities I've been looking at with some PriceScope vendors, believing they vendors (here) were going to sell me 14 spectacular "ideal" cut AGS0 stones. Does one just pay half again or double for forevermark stones for no reason or are they really better?

What is a consumer to do other than ask for ideal scope and aset images and then, as a consumer, learn to interpret them? Insist on HCA somewhere around 2.0 as another benchmark?

This is a good thread; I'll look forward to hearing some more responses!

This is just silly! The photos of the Hearts images are taken from the bottom, but the Arrows are indeed taken from the top. There actually is a reason why most (Emphasis on MOST but certainly not all) H & A cut diamonds look better than diamonds with similar angles but lacking the optical symmetry of the H&A cut diamond. There actually is a reason why some super precisely cut diamonds look even better than most other H & A cut diamonds. It has to do with the size of the virtual facets and the size of the flashes of white and colored light that come from those virtual facets. There are 57 facets in a modern round brilliant cut diamond today. When you tilt that diamond 40 degrees in both directions from perpendicular there are approximately 200,000 scintillation events in a 1ct diamond. However, just like when you sit between two mirrors in a barber shop, each virtual you that you see in the mirror gets quickly smaller and smaller. Soon, you can not see them at all, especially if they were small to begin with.

If a one carat diamond has Arrows, you may see the eight very large scintillation events. Then some large scintillation events, them many medium events and a bunch of smaller events and after only 6-12,000 of those eye visible scintillation events the rest of those 200,000 scintillation events are too small for the human eye to discern. A poorly cut stone will be near the lower range of visible events, a Hearts and Arrows cut diamond near the upper range and a super precise diamond will be just slightly higher at the top of the eye visible events due to having larger virtual facets which take a few more reflections to get too small for the eye to perceive. A two carat diamond will have more eye visible events, which is one of the reasons that we like bigger stones.

This comes from a presentation made by Peter Yantzer, the Executive Director of the American Gem Society Laboratory a few years ago at an Infinity Diamond conference in Dallas, TX. The research done by AGS really opened the doors and windows to the secrets of making a diamond look fantastic and it is very close to rocket science in its complexity of the light physics involved. You can tell your local store sales clerk that he needs to get over his store not offering the best looking diamonds available and to do some studying to fix his lack of even the basics of modern cut knowledge that is necessary to properly assisting a client who is very likely to have learned at least the basics on the Internet before going shopping. He had his chance to impress you, and his lack of professionalism impressed you all right, just not in the way he intended.

RE: Does an AGS0 diamond automatically mean that diamond would be in the top 1% or top 1/2%? Same for "Hearts on Fire" diamonds and "Hearts and Arrows" diamonds - do either of these mean the diamond will be spectacular, do these designations automatically indicate an AGS0 diamond or can some of these look (significantly) better than others?

Actually the AGS0 is intended to indicate that the diamond is in the top 10% which is indeed quite a range. Most will look pretty darn good, but in blind taste tests I have watched clients quickly cull those in the lower end of the range from consideration. (two to five diamonds on a slotted trey with no information about anything given to the looker. I like to let them choose with THEIR eyes.)

It is pretty consistent that H & A cut diamonds will outperform AGS 0 cut diamonds that are not H & A and those that are cut super precisely will outperform even H&A cut diamonds. Hearts on Fire diamonds enjoy the market position of preeminence, meaning that they were the first on the market to tout the H & A cutting, but they are not, in my opinion any where close to being the best H & A cut diamonds on the market. I think most of the Pricescope buyers are more sophisticated in their diamond cut knowledge than the average retail jewelry client, and they are not the ones, by and large, that are buying the HoF diamonds.

So to directly answer your question, yes most H & A diamonds and HoF diamonds look pretty hot and can be considered to be spectacular more than not. And NO IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC! The top 10% of the top 10% are the ones that are going to make most people's toes curl! Yet if you do not actually see them next to the bottom 10% of the top 10% you will never know if you like them better or not. If you just accept one of the bottom 10% as being "good enough" then you have not really harmed anyone, but you may not be as happy with your purchase as you might have been had you seen the real deal.

Just my thoughts on a complex couple of questions.

Wink

 

[DelsFan]

"If you just accept one of the bottom 10% as being "good enough" then you have not really harmed anyone, but you may not be as happy with your purchase as you might have been had you seen the real deal."

Exactly, exactly, exactly! I will be disappointed if I have a 10% diamond instead of a 1% diamond! Do jewelers who poo-poo people like me, who are willing to pay 50% more per carat weight for what they want, just not have access to superior cut diamonds?

Regardless, thank you so much for clarifying what is out there, how to get it, and that AGS0 is great, but not 100% dummy proof. Still we have to do a little work on our own!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thank you both for your replies. No Jared's in my state but I think there is one in CT that might be within driving distance. We don't have helzberg either. I do know we have some hearts on fire dealers close though. Would this be similar in cut to what an AGS0 stone would look like in person?

Since we are interested in buying online, I would not feel comfortable in having a stone called in just to look at.

Thank you again

Hi,
I would avoid Jared's. I've gone into their store a couple of times and the comments they make are horrible and they are very defensive about online purchases. I had shown them a pair of AGS F color SI1 branded H&A cut stones that every other store told me were amazing, and Jared's said they were low quality and then went on to explain I'd be better off with one of their excellent cut I1 stones (at a higher price)...they really are just about trying to sell and do not care if they are offering good quality.

Ben Bridge does have excellent diamonds but you're paying B&M prices. I purchased a diamond from them and have received many compliments over the years, but we really over paid. But, that said, it would make more sense to go to Ben Bridge rather than Jared's because BB discussed the concept of a well-cut stone, where as Jared's didn't.

If I were you, I'd start calling jewelry stores in your area to see who has AGS stones. It'll save you time driving around. One jewelry store told me they didn't carry AGS stones because that was a special brand of stone!