How to choose an emerald?

[HockeyMama]

Hello! I am in the early phases of planning an emeral ring for my big 5-0 next year! If you've read my other threads it will easily take me a year to think and over think and re think this. At least with diamonds I could just pick an ACA and then focus on the setting.

I have combed through all the emerald threds, including the show me. I have a decent grasp of origin, color and treatment. I know I want muzo, old mine or vivid color, around 3 carats. I want minor or insignificant oil. I follow George, Gemfactor and Bright Green.

I have no idea what shape to get (emerald, cushion, asscher), but I'm flexible so it may just come down to the right color, size, origin and treatment. I want to set it with diamond side stones, something art deco, not a halo or a bezel.

I am super stuck on one aspect when I look at stones. Assuming all high quality, from those vendors, minor or better oil, large size, some stones seems to be completely translucent, and some seem more opaque and glow more. I think the translucent ones are more desirable, but the glowing ones appeal to me more. I have two examples below (screen shots, not the best but I hope they show what I mean). Would someone please explain the difference between these to me? Is one more durable, desirable? This is for me, not for investment, but mentally I want an excellent stone.

The other thing I don't undersand is inclusions, is it good enough to get a stone that is minor oil or better? Or do you also have to worry about type and position of inclusions.

Final question, when the time comes, do I reach out to all three or focus on one vendor? And which would you choose?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Megan Hill]

Well, in my opinion you should choose the stone that most attracts you without giving it so much importance in technical aspects. As you mentioned, is important that the stone has max. Minor treatment.

As you know, emeralds usually have inclusions and the important thing is that it doesn't have too many, because it will look very opaque. Or a very large inclusion that is visible to the naked eye.

I would prefer the first stone you are showing, because it looks cleaner and more alive. It looks light in color. Perhaps they refer to Muzo as origin and not as color. The second stone has much more color, but it is very much included and looks very dull.

It would be convenient to contact all three vendors when you are ready, so that you can compare qualities and prices.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I also like emeralds, and find them very hard to judge over the interwebs because they don’t photograph well. Of new emeralds I like @muzoemeralds on instagram. I’m all about the glow. As far as treatment goes, none is best, but very spendy. Minor oil is ok. I say no to anything above F2.

 

[HockeyMama]

Well, in my opinion you should choose the stone that most attracts you without giving it so much importance in technical aspects. As you mentioned, is important that the stone has max. Minor treatment.

As you know, emeralds usually have inclusions and the important thing is that it doesn't have too many, because it will look very opaque. Or a very large inclusion that is visible to the naked eye.

I would prefer the first stone you are showing, because it looks cleaner and more alive. It looks light in color. Perhaps they refer to Muzo as origin and not as color. The second stone has much more color, but it is very much included and looks very dull.

It would be convenient to contact all three vendors when you are ready, so that you can compare qualities and prices.

Thank you! Do you think the first one will still have a glow? My concern is it looks so perfect it won’t have any depth? I’m not sure if that’s the term. I want a beautiful, high quality emerald that still glows.

 

[HockeyMama]

I also like emeralds, and find them very hard to judge over the interwebs because they don’t photograph well. Of new emeralds I like @muzoemeralds on instagram. I’m all about the glow. As far as treatment goes, none is best, but very spendy. Minor oil is ok. I say no to anything above F2.

His stones are beautiful for sure. Do you think the more perfect or crystalline emeralds still glow, or only the ones that are included? Ideally I want the least treatment but I still want glow.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I wouldn't say that the second one glows either. I find it just dark to be honest. To me this is glow as posted by @Crimson

Post in thread 'My new Vivid Green Muzo Emerald Ring' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5253786

Post in thread 'My new Vivid Green Muzo Emerald Ring' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5253299

Check out her entire thread to see her amazing ring and the other pics she posted. To me that's true glow. The examples you posted don't glow to me.

 

[HockeyMama]

I wouldn't say that the second one glows either. I find it just dark to be honest. To me this is glow as posted by @Crimson

Post in thread 'My new Vivid Green Muzo Emerald Ring' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5253786

Post in thread 'My new Vivid Green Muzo Emerald Ring' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5253299

Check out her entire thread to see her amazing ring and the other pics she posted. To me that's true glow. The examples you posted don't glow to me.

oh yes, this is the ring that launched my search. I love every part of the stone and setting. In fact a cabochon will be my next purchase after a faceted stone.

How do I describe what I’m looking for to the vendor? Is “glow” a sufficient term? I like that I can specifically ask for size, shape, color, treatment and clarity. But this is the piece i don’t want to miss because it gives life to the emerald.

 

[Crimson]

Thank you @mellowyellowgirl and @FornasettiLover.
Glow is what attracts me to an emerald. I would buy one without glow.
I would also say the glow has to hold up under different light conditions.
I did a lot of homework before I bought my Muzo Minerva ring.
Posting some glow pics for you here!
The first pic is a Zambian emerald, the other two are of fine Colombian emeralds.
Maybe you could show these pics to the seller as examples of glow.

 

[RRfromR]

@FornasettiLover , the finance person has entered the thread At that budget, I'd go to a show in person first and look at gems to figure out what you like. Emeralds are incredibly had to photograph and glow is very subjective.

 

[Avondale]

I am super stuck on one aspect when I look at stones. Assuming all high quality, from those vendors, minor or better oil, large size, some stones seems to be completely translucent, and some seem more opaque and glow more. I think the translucent ones are more desirable, but the glowing ones appeal to me more. I have two examples below (screen shots, not the best but I hope they show what I mean). Would someone please explain the difference between these to me? Is one more durable, desirable? This is for me, not for investment, but mentally I want an excellent stone.

Ok, so. To start with clarity. You've read enough, so you know the oiling only affects those fissures that reach the surface. Everything else (fingerprints, crystal inclusions, liquid inclusions, non-surface reaching fractures, and so on, and so on) won't be hidden by the oil and will very much affect the clarity. And in general stones with better clarity are preferred to more included ones.

You seem to be equating glow with inclusions, but you can very much have a glowy stone that has high clarity. I have a small emerald that's untreated and super clear, can't see a single fracture. It still has a very respectable amount of glow, and would be even more glowy if it didn't present with a massive window.

To be honest, out of the two photos you posted, I'd say the first one has significantly more glow. At least it's how it appears in the screenshots.

How do I describe what I’m looking for to the vendor? Is “glow” a sufficient term?

I imagine it should be. Glow for me is when the stone is reflecting light in such a way that it almost seems like it has its own light source inside of it, like something inside is lit up and emanating light.

Here are a couple of examples that were posted last week in SMTB:

[https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/green-cushion-emerald-three-stone-from-jr.278763/]

[https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ive-popped-the-question-to-gliderposs.278779/]

If you want to be absolutely sure the vendor knows what you're after, show them pictures of emeralds you like to accompany any verbal description you may come up with.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

His stones are beautiful for sure. Do you think the more perfect or crystalline emeralds still glow, or only the ones that are included? Ideally I want the least treatment but I still want glow.

Yes the best glow. There is a term in the trade called

His stones are beautiful for sure. Do you think the more perfect or crystalline emeralds still glow, or only the ones that are included? Ideally I want the least treatment but I still want glow.

There is a term for the glow in the industry. It’s called gota de aceite or drop of oil. The best of the best!

 

[HockeyMama]

Thank you @mellowyellowgirl and @FornasettiLover.
Glow is what attracts me to an emerald. I would buy one without glow.
I would also say the glow has to hold up under different light conditions.
I did a lot of homework before I bought my Muzo Minerva ring.
Posting some glow pics for you here!
The first pic is a Zambian emerald, the other two are of fine Colombian emeralds.
Maybe you could show these pics to the seller as examples of glow.

Wow, I love that Zambian one as well! I suppose I need to narrow the field a little? I know I prefer more blue to my green than yellow so settled on Muzo for simplicity but at a cost, I know!

 

[HockeyMama]

You seem to be equating glow with inclusions, but you can very much have a glowy stone that has high clarity.

This is exactly what I was doing, thank you for the clarification. That helps a lot.

 

[HockeyMama]

Glow for me is when the stone is reflecting light in such a way that it almost seems like it has its own light source inside of it, like something inside is lit up and emanating light.

Exactly what I want to convey! I will use this quote. Thank you so much for helping me to understand.

(Also I'm sorry, I don't know how to do the multiple quotes in one, didn't intend to spam you).

 

[HockeyMama]

@FornasettiLover , the finance person has entered the thread At that budget, I'd go to a show in person first and look at gems to figure out what you like. Emeralds are incredibly had to photograph and glow is very subjective.

Sigh, sounds like a dream. Sadly if I'm not working, I'm chauffeuring my son (he no longer needs a babysitter, just a personal assistant) and the only travel I do is to hockey tournaments these days. (I wouldn't change it for the world).

When I got my diamond rings I defaulted to ACAs to simplify the purchase. I wish there was an emerald equivalent.

Also, what's my budget? I was thinking 20-30K based on feedback I received from the vendors for what I mentioned above... is that not correct? They said about 7-10K per carat?

 

[HockeyMama]

Yes the best glow. There is a term in the trade called

There is a term for the glow in the industry. It’s called gota de aceite or drop of oil. The best of the best!

I've read about this but it also seems this term is thrown around rather liberally and doesn't go on the gem reports. I'll definitely need to use one of the more known vendors to source the stone and be relying on their judgement and reliabiltiy.

Ultimately it'll be like my recent five stone, I obsessed about the prongs but my astigmatism is so bad I can barely see them, all I see is ACA fire. This is why I'm focused on the glow and color, I won't really be able to see the fine details.

I have loved looking at your NYC pictures! What a fun opportunity. I hope to do something like this when my son goes off to college. Or the Van Cleef workshop in Paris!

 

[RRfromR]

Sigh, sounds like a dream. Sadly if I'm not working, I'm chauffeuring my son (he no longer needs a babysitter, just a personal assistant) and the only travel I do is to hockey tournaments these days. (I wouldn't change it for the world).

When I got my diamond rings I defaulted to ACAs to simplify the purchase. I wish there was an emerald equivalent.

Also, what's my budget? I was thinking 20-30K based on feedback I received from the vendors for what I mentioned above... is that not correct? They said about 7-10K per carat?

@FornasettiLover , I hear you - I work full time and have two boys; my little one plays a million sports, so my life is work and then baseball, soccer, and swim meets. At 10k/ct, you should be able to get no oil.

 

[HockeyMama]

@FornasettiLover , I hear you - I work full time and have two boys; my little one plays a million sports, so my life is work and then baseball, soccer, and swim meets. At 10k/ct, you should be able to get no oil.

Baseball moms have a special place in the universe... I thank my son regularly for not picking that. The long hours in the heat would do me in. Thank you for the budget check!

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I've read about this but it also seems this term is thrown around rather liberally and doesn't go on the gem reports. I'll definitely need to use one of the more known vendors to source the stone and be relying on their judgement and reliabiltiy.

Ultimately it'll be like my recent five stone, I obsessed about the prongs but my astigmatism is so bad I can barely see them, all I see is ACA fire. This is why I'm focused on the glow and color, I won't really be able to see the fine details.

I have loved looking at your NYC pictures! What a fun opportunity. I hope to do something like this when my son goes off to college. Or the Van Cleef workshop in Paris!

My kids are grown, so it’s a perfect opportunity. I do recommend this course. The trade people are so nice! And I’ve learned a ton and meet such nice people. We want to do another week on colored stones and reunite.

 

[Starstruck8]

There is a term for the glow in the industry. It’s called gota de aceite or drop of oil. The best of the best!

I've read about this but it also seems this term is thrown around rather liberally

I'm not sure that it's actually a term for glow. As I understand it, gota de aceite refers to a specific effect. It's very rare - I've seen only a couple of examples on PS, none in real life. It's described as an 'oily', 'liquid' or 'roiled' look. It's said to be caused by microscopic growth irregularities:
https://www.gia.edu/doc/Gota-de-Aceite_-Nomenclature-for-the-Finest-Colombian-Emeralds.pdf

Gota de aceite emeralds do indeed glow. But gota de aceite is not the only cause of glow, and it is not a synonym for 'excellent glow' - see the last page of the linked article.

You seem to be equating glow with inclusions, but you can very much have a glowy stone that has high clarity. I have a small emerald that's untreated and super clear, can't see a single fracture.

I had always vaguely assumed that the glow of emeralds was caused by microscopic inclusions or irregularities. It's not the visible fractures and inclusions that cause the glow, it's the ones that are too small to see with the naked eye, especially if they are oriented to give a subtle sheen or chatoyance. But I haven't come across a definitive story.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I'm not sure that it's actually a term for glow. As I understand it, gota de aceite refers to a specific effect. It's very rare - I've seen only a couple of examples on PS, none in real life. It's described as an 'oily', 'liquid' or 'roiled' look. It's said to be caused by microscopic growth irregularities:
https://www.gia.edu/doc/Gota-de-Aceite_-Nomenclature-for-the-Finest-Colombian-Emeralds.pdf

Gota de aceite emeralds do indeed glow. But gota de aceite is not the only cause of glow, and it is not a synonym for 'excellent glow' - see the last page of the linked article.


I had always vaguely assumed that the glow of emeralds was caused by microscopic inclusions or irregularities. It's not the visible fractures and inclusions that cause the glow, it's the ones that are too small to see with the naked eye, especially if they are oriented to give a subtle sheen or chatoyance. But I haven't come across a definitive story.

Thank you. I always want to learn.

 

[T L]

I did not read all of the replies, as I am late to the thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating something. I prefer the first stone because it is clean and still a beautiful color, that will glow in a setting. The second stone, while it has deeper color, is so included, it’s translucent instead of transparent. Even emeralds should be transparent. It’s also likely that the top stone is far less treated as well. I would just be weary of surface cracks, especially on the table, but the top stone is a lively medium hue with nice cutting proportions.

 

[T L]

This stone is a beautiful darker hue, but it has what I refer to as a metallic sheen. Ever see metallic green Christmas foil? That’s what darker emeralds are famous for.

Medium to lighter hues are more glowy, like a paraiba.

 

[Rfisher]

Also, what's my budget? I was thinking 20-30K based on feedback I received from the vendors for what I mentioned above... is that not correct? They said about 7-10K per carat?

is this 7-10k per carat relative to the two stones shown from your first post?

 

[Crimson]

Also, what's my budget? I was thinking 20-30K based on feedback I received from the vendors for what I mentioned above... is that not correct? They said about 7-10K per carat?

From what I have seen, some factors will drive the price up
How much oil (of course). There is also a warning from GRS re: emeralds that are so called no-oil emeralds so please beware. https://www.gemresearch.ch/news/2022/01/07/adjustment-to-terminology-on-grs-reports-for-emeralds
Size - price per carat jumps at intervals eg 5 ct and 10 ct
Shade of green - Vivid Green? Or just green, or special appendix?
A GRS Special appendix indicating Old Mine, Muzo Green drives the price up significantly.

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Gota-de-Aceite_-Nomenclature-for-the-Finest-Colombian-Emeralds.pdf
Gota de aceite emeralds do indeed glow. But gota de aceite is not the only cause of glow, and it is not a synonym for 'excellent glow' - see the last page of the linked article.
I had always vaguely assumed that the glow of emeralds was caused by microscopic inclusions or irregularities. It's not the visible fractures and inclusions that cause the glow, it's the ones that are too small to see with the naked eye, especially if they are oriented to give a subtle sheen or chatoyance. But I haven't come across a definitive story.

Yes, @Starstruck8. That is my impression too.

This stone is a beautiful darker hue, but it has what I refer to as a metallic sheen. Ever see metallic green Christmas foil? That’s what darker emeralds are famous for.
Medium to lighter hues are more glowy, like a paraiba.

@T L Yes, that is why I included it here. A different kind of appeal. I still prefer a more diffuse kind of light though,

 

[HockeyMama]

is this 7-10k per carat relative to the two stones shown from your first post?

No, I'm sorry. I contacted two of the vendors and told them I wanted minor oil or better, certified, muzo, old mine color, 2-3 carat, minimal inclusions and that was the number. Those two stones were just for illustrative purposes and apparently were terrible choices. I will for sure have to come back with actual stone photos and videos when I narrow it down.

 

[HockeyMama]

From what I have seen, some factors will drive the price up
How much oil (of course). There is also a warning from GRS re: emeralds that are so called no-oil emeralds so please beware. https://www.gemresearch.ch/news/2022/01/07/adjustment-to-terminology-on-grs-reports-for-emeralds
Size - price per carat jumps at intervals eg 5 ct and 10 ct
Shade of green - Vivid Green? Or just green, or special appendix?
A GRS Special appendix indicating Old Mine, Muzo Green drives the price up significantly.

I've read about this and it seems like cheating! I am sticking to the vendors menitoned because in a market rife with such ambiguity reputation is key. I had specified I wanted "old mine" green in 2-3 carats, and I think a generous 10K per carat seems about right based on George's site, certainly.

 

[HockeyMama]

This stone is a beautiful darker hue, but it has what I refer to as a metallic sheen. Ever see metallic green Christmas foil? That’s what darker emeralds are famous for.

Medium to lighter hues are more glowy, like a paraiba.

This is going to be tricky. I love the metallic green, and actually don't at all like Paraiba, so maybe this is the look I'm going for? I know I don't like opaque so good to know translucent stones will glow as well.

 

[HockeyMama]

I'm not sure that it's actually a term for glow. As I understand it, gota de aceite refers to a specific effect. It's very rare - I've seen only a couple of examples on PS, none in real life. It's described as an 'oily', 'liquid' or 'roiled' look. It's said to be caused by microscopic growth irregularities:
https://www.gia.edu/doc/Gota-de-Aceite_-Nomenclature-for-the-Finest-Colombian-Emeralds.pdf

I found this as well in my search. I was disappointed to see that even some of the preferred vendors use this term rather more frequently than I would expect based on this article.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Very timely. I went to Bayco in NYC today and saw some incredible old mine muzo emeralds and some new mine, as well as a lovely no oil Zambian. In discussion with one of the family, he said that a true no oil emerald has no cracks or fissures through which the oil can be introduced. I asked if he had a Gota de Aciete example, because I’d love to see one in real life, and he has one in his entire inventory, and it was not in NY. However, these folks have an excellent reputation and definitely have the right stuff. I am attaching pictures. The box contains an old mine, new mine and no oil Zambian. The necklace is old mine and phenomenal.