shape
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How much more would you pay for a J over a K?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by lydial, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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    by lydial » Apr 7, 2019
    To go up in color from a K to J.
    Super ideal stone, > 2.5 carat
    < 0.1 ct increase but may increase spread 0.1-0.2 mm
    Will stay in the approximate clarity area (VS1 to VS2).

    Would you pay 10% or more over the K?

    I purchased a 2.66 ct K VS1 from CBI/HPD, waiting for me setting, and they posted a 2.73 ct J VS2 in the works. 8 weeks out, will cost me 2500 to upgrade. Would fit right into the setting I am getting. If it doesn’t turn out to be bigger & better I am not obligated. If it turns out even better than quoted the price remains the same which is great.

    I like warmth in diamonds but there is so much “color sensitivity “ here on PS I figured I would ask for advice. J would be warm enough and maybe less tinted. I am confident I would be happy with the K but since I never plan to upgrade this again (even though I am thinking about upgrading it before I even get it) I want it perfect the first time.

    Do the majority think the J is worth it? Waiting and spending another 2500? That a is a little more than 10% premium on what was already spent. Can’t show you pics, It does not exist yet.

    Thank you for your advice/opinions!
     
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  2. missy
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by missy » Apr 7, 2019
    I think it is worth it depending on how much the warmer color bothers you. I spent more than 10% going up each color grade at the 4 plus carat range for my OEC. As long as it is just as beautiful a diamond that is. Well worth it. IMO.
     
  3. SimoneDi
    Ideal_Rock

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    by SimoneDi » Apr 7, 2019
    IMHO the $2.5k is a very reasonable amount to go into the near colorless range. You will also cross the 2.7ct mark which is nice. Especially if you won’t upgrade in the future, I think it’s totally worth it to do it now, of course given that the price difference is something that you can spend comfortably.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  4. OcnGypZ
    Shiny_Rock

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    by OcnGypZ » Apr 7, 2019
    Too soon to tell. You need to see the stones side by side.. but not too close to each other as you won't be able to tell the difference.. if you can see the difference at all.
     
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  5. tyty333
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by tyty333 » Apr 7, 2019
    I think it would be worth it if you plan on never upgrading again. Higher color and slightly bigger size would be worth it.
     
  6. MissGotRocks
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MissGotRocks » Apr 7, 2019
    It would be worth it to me but not everyone feels the same way. Not only are you going up in color but also a bit in size.
     
  7. Wewechew
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Wewechew » Apr 7, 2019
    As long as the specs turned out how I wanted them (table, LFG, etc) that would totally be worth it to me.
     
  8. marymm
    Ideal_Rock

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    by marymm » Apr 7, 2019
    I say go for it as long as you can wait the 8 weeks and it is no obligation if it isn't bigger and better ... but I would want the return policy clarified: In other words, once the J diamond is complete with grading report and photos, can you still choose your original stone and have that extra $2.5K returned to you even if the J diamond meets or is better than its projected stats?
     
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  9. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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    by lydial » Apr 7, 2019
    Yes. I am good if it turns out unappealing. But a 2.73 CBI will most likely be a-ok...
     
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  10. marymm
    Ideal_Rock

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    by marymm » Apr 7, 2019
    ^ what I meant was, if to your eyes there is no appreciable difference in size/color between your original K and the new J, then maybe you'd rather save that $2500 and keep your original diamond...
     
    


    


  11. chamois
    Shiny_Rock

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    by chamois » Apr 7, 2019
    If you are okay spending the extra money.....then a side by side comparison to see if there is an appreciable size/colour difference visually. Also, a small table, eye clean is a given etc. (whatever your preferences are). Good luck deciding...maybe one factor will sway you.
     
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  12. seaurchin
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by seaurchin » Apr 7, 2019
    To me, it really just depends on what you can comfortably spend.

    My 2.75 ct. is a K. Even though not expensive for that size diamond, it was already at the absolute top limit of what I would spend on any jewelry at the time.

    But if I did have more to easily spend at the time then, sure, I'd have paid 10% more to go up a color grade. I can't imagine ever thinking, "Gee, I really wish this diamond was a lower color grade." (Unless, of course, that's the look you're deliberately going for).

    Also, just my opinion, but with a K diamond, I'd want (and got) the additional price break of an SI diamond. VS and K seems a little unbalanced to me, if that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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  13. TheBlingleys
    Rough_Rock

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    by TheBlingleys » Apr 7, 2019
    I would pay for the J hands down. Just last weekend my DH and I saw CBI/HPD diamonds. We are looking for an upgrade. They where all beautiful. We saw and I, J, K. We didn’t know the colors before looking. The K was at the bottom of the list for us. BTW, I have a J so I am not color sensitive. Good luck in your decision. Hopefully, there will be a CBI in our immediate future.
     
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  14. HDer
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by HDer » Apr 7, 2019
    In my opinion, it depends on if you are planning to keep the diamond forever or if there's a possibility you may want to sell it in the future, although with HP Diamonds this is less of an issue because of the buyback and upgrade policies.

    With the caveats that there are people who are highly color sensitive, and that everyone has a threshold at which a diamond doesn't look white any more, the fact is that even for professional graders it's hard to tell a one grade difference. This is doubly true when a diamond is set, when you're looking at a diamond from the top, and when a diamond is extremely well cut like CBI, which is why grading labs only grade unset diamonds from the side.

    So if you're keeping it forever, I'd save the 2,500 dollars. 2500 will do a lot of things, like buy you a nice bike or OLED TV, or make up almost half of your IRA contribution for the year. But if you're looking at it as something where you might want to sell it later, well a J diamond might be more desirable to others because that's generally the cutoff for all of the professional advice and 2.73 sounds better than 2.66. Once again, less applicable because of HPD's excellent policies.

    And sometimes there's also that mental satisfaction/mental uncertainty (mind clarity, mind carats, I guess also mind color), and it's hard to put a price on that.
     
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  15. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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    by lydial » Apr 7, 2019
    Arghhhhh. I really did not even want to spend this much, but now that I did, I am thinking "why not a little more?" And also if it had been available at this price when I paid for the K I would have maybe gone for the J instead.

    Layla is gathering some information for me and I will decide on Monday. It seems on this forum the K is like the Kiss of Death for some people - some will not go below H, some J... But many will not touch a K. I am always attracted to big warm stones in vintage jewelers (including big poorly cut MBRs). I have to keep remembering that - for today I am "considering" and I may just axe it on Monday.
     
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  16. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Apr 7, 2019
    I would not want a K (I actually wouldn’t want a J, either)... but that’s just me. I had an I before (3.29, then 3.18 after a recut). Now I have a 2.01 with a small table so no spread in an E and I couldn’t be happier. So I would say go for the highest color you can which, in this case, would be the J. It is still then considered to be colorless range, yet IMO I feel H is the cut-off visually. Most certainly going K takes you to the next category. You are already looking at large diamonds... would you at all consider going to like 2.25 range to move up in color?
    I definitely agree with the comment made that you’d be better taking a look at SI1’s... even a good SI2 (and they exist, that grade is applied for different reasons)... you could do much better in color and stay closer to your size goal. I agree with the previous comment that K in a VS makes no sense given you will see color over the VS you are paying a premium for but won’t see. Also, what color metal are you mounting it in?
    One of my issues with the lower colors is not necessarily so much about the tint of yellow, but rather that they look dark. Also, you are not talking about a 1 carat stone... you are talking about two and three quarters and the color will be much more apparent.
    Would you consider taking a step back to reconsider this and see how big you could get in an SI1 or good SI2 in like an H (or even I)??
    I just don’t get this thing about planning the upgrade even before the proposal.
    I realize we all have to learn it for ourselves, but I’ve been married 30 years and at some point the biggest “whatever” fades to the background because what becomes important is having something rare. I guess we all have to reach that point for ourselves (just as I had to!).
    I know what people said amongst themselves behind my back about my 3+ carat in the I color which was very hurtful and I don’t want it to happen to you which was: “Yeah, sure she has a big diamond, but it’s not a nice color”.
    I know that no one HERE would speak that way but “we” are not most people!
    So just some food for thought.
     
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  17. SandyinAnaheim
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by SandyinAnaheim » Apr 7, 2019
    I agree with everything written above. One additional point to consider is that Lieve is very strict on color grading, occasionally more so than AGS. I purchased a stone that was in production, estimated and priced to be a J VS, but it came back from the lab an I VS1. Needless to say, I was thrilled! :appl:

    So bear in mind that while you may be reserving a J, there's a nice little chance it could come back an I.
     
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  18. marymm
    Ideal_Rock

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    by marymm » Apr 7, 2019
    Also, don't forget the high and low ranges within colors, so your original K may be high (or low), and the new J may be low (or high) ... depending on which is which, there may be a noticeable color difference or not so much difference at all...
     
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  19. lydial
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    by lydial » Apr 7, 2019
    So... I am not proposing. This is my 20 year "us-iversary" upgrade (I did not want to wait for 20 years of marriage - my son will be approaching college at that point and I doubt we will be spending on ourselves...

    An almost 3 will look like a 1 carat on other women as I have a size 9 + ring size. Size is important to me.

    A lot to think about.
     
  20. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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  21. nala
    Ideal_Rock

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    by nala » Apr 7, 2019
    I am extremely color sensitive. It becomes an issue when I stack my ring. I have a Gia I. And I don’t like to stack it with bands that contrast it too much. So you should really consider that. Especially if you plan to set the stone in pave or sidestones or just to stack.
    Now having said that, my I is not tint free. To
    Upgrade to a G, which I would feel would be colorless enough, it would have cost me 3 to 4K more. I didn’t pull the trigger at the time. And I can’t help but wonder if I should have. Bc my eyes are so darn picky. I will say that many people will say that a J or K appears white to them. I don’t know if that can be true. I can spot the tint even in the pics. It will never be true for me. The color chart even indicates the range to have tint. Costco only sells diamonds that are I or better. I guess I use I as the standard. I wish I could go against the color range chart bc I’d be rocking a 3 carat plus. Only you can decide and it is not a sensitivity that you can gauge in jewelry store lighting. It can take a few weeks or months for it to set in,after the novelty of the diamond wears off.
     
  22. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Apr 7, 2019
    Congrats on sharing 20 years together! Life’s uncertain... celebrate as soon and as often as possible!
    I understand... had two kids through college (1 grad school) it’s ridiculous - get the diamond while you can lol!
    I see your point on the size... I have yucky oversized knuckles so a 2-ct. doesn’t look the same on me as someone with long, slender fingers. In my mind I’m good knowing it is a 2 carat.
    What about looking at SI1/2 to stay in your size range and get a little higher in color?
     
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  23. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Apr 7, 2019
    I feel your pain.
     
  24. OcnGypZ
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    by OcnGypZ » Apr 7, 2019
    What are you getting for your $2500? 7 pts. A 2.66 to a 2.73. You won't see a size difference.
    One color upgrade.. well.. maybe. You want to compare the stones in ambient daylight.
    And you are losing one clarity grade. VS1 to VS2

    The loss of clarity grade kills it for me.
     
  25. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

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    by the_mother_thing » Apr 7, 2019
    @lydial Personally speaking, I would have to realize more than a 1 characteristic ‘bump’ to spend more, and those characteristics would have to be absolutely visually appreciable to me in order to spend more. For example, it’d have to be color, clarity & size.

    Also, I have a K color WF expert selection (has FL so missed ACA b/c of that), and while I can detect a slight tint, it does not bother me in the least. The link you provided for the CBI K looks even less tinted/more white than my K (which was considered middle of the K-band) from the side view, so in this case, for me, I would want to realize an appreciable difference in size & clarity. Will the the carat and clarity differences result in a visually appreciable improvement from the K? The K video looks pretty darn clean to me! And the anticipated spread will likely be minimally detectable to the eye, it seems.

    For those reasons, personally, I would not spend the extra money for a color bump that - if the J is on the lower end of the J scale - may not be noticeable. I would save/use that money elsewhere instead, like sticking it in the kid/s college fund acct where it will accrue interest, or a retirement acct. But that is me.
     
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  26. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Apr 7, 2019
    I once, unknowingly, bought a K from an antique store. Beautiful diamond in the store, and I set it as a solitaire. Then one day, standing near a window, I caught a glimpse of it from the side. My response? "Ugh!! It's BROWN!!" I had that ring for about another New York minute before I traded up in color.

    Later on, I bought an AGS ideal light performance AVR - also a K. Loved the size, loved the cut. HATED it from the side and sold it back at a big loss to Good Old Gold so I could upgrade to an I (still not great, but WAY better than a K!)

    As I understand it, color grades get wider the further down the scale you go, so the difference between a J and a K can be quite large.

    I'll never get a K in a ring again. I *will* go MUCH warmer, so I can get a light yellow effect, and will then bezel set in yellow or rose gold. But never a K - especially not in platinum, which is no man's land to my eye.

    If you're buying a luxury, high ticket item, get what you love.
     
  27. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Apr 7, 2019
    People get worked up about carat weight but the exact proportions of the stone will determine the length, width and depth, which is much more meaningful. Since this stone is being crafted it's my guess this information is unavailable.

    I'd think max 0.10mm gain in spread which is debatable if it's really noticeable or note. That's about 1/256th inch bigger.

    As far as color, we know they are really ranges and the further you go down in color the more variation within each range. Depending where each exact stone falls, there may be a visible difference or no difference.

    Alas, clarity. At VS2+ and HPD we have to assume it will be good. However, for me, inclusions can be a finicky thing. With the stone you have you know what you are getting. With this other stone, you may not like the type or placement of the inclusion despite meeting clarity grade.

    So while I'm not against changing I'm not sure I would if I were in your shoes. I think the price is fair but I probably don't see it as money I would want to spend myself.

    But really it's such a personal choice and i don't think there is a wrong answer.
     
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  28. seaurchin
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by seaurchin » Apr 7, 2019
    I don't have a larger ring size but I do have large hands so I get what you mean about a three carat looking like a one carat on you. Just a thought in case you don't know, maybe you'd rather consider one of the elongated fancy cuts instead, since they appear larger on the hand (pear, marquise, radiant, oval...). That's why I got a marquise. It looks half again as big on my hand as my 3 carat cz does. Also, the fancy cuts average about 25% less expensive than the rounds.
     
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  29. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Apr 7, 2019
    SUCH a great point... and I was so torn about exactly that... getting a marquise for a lot less $ for a bigger look. But I wanted the sparkle of the round. Also, the 1.01 stone my husband proposed with (that I foolishly gave away in exchange for another diamond, now three stones ago, yikes!) but now so very much regret was a marquise (and a D... I’m SO stupid).
    Only thing is, as with rounds, a good marquis needs specific characteristics and they take time to find. (Not only was mine a D, it had a perfect 2:1 ratio and minimal bow tie... everything you would want in a marquise - I’m so sad!).
    But the sparkle from the round, it’s hard to pass up, especially with the good ones!
     
  30. seaurchin
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by seaurchin » Apr 7, 2019
    Just to add, I love my 2.75 K. For the most part, it appears white. In certain lights or when examining it closely, I see some yellowish color. On my stone, it's zoned, in spots rather than all over. It's on a yellow gold band and when it's noticeable at all, I think it just looks like a little reflection from the band. I seriously doubt anyone else notices it.

    I can tell the cut's nice because aside from the specs on the paperwork being mostly what is recommended for a marquise (except for the girdle, which ranges from very thin to very thick on mine), I see lots of flashes of white and rainbow color. It IS very sparkly, rounds don't have a monopoly the sparkle! It's also SI1 and I don't see any inclusions.

    But I bought it (new and recently) for just over $13,000, which is about half the price we're talking about here.

    What I read on a diamond site (I think it was Blue Nile, if anyone wants to look it up):

    - K color costs half what G color does.

    - Fancy shapes cost one fourth less than rounds.

    (This post was edited a hundred times because I kept thinking of more to say).
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019

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