How many waxes are prototyped?

[echelon6]

Can anyone tell me how commonplace is it these days to outsource wax manufacture to 3rd party companies who "prototype" (not sure how to call this process) the wax from CAD data?

Its just that it seems all the common complaints people have re workmanship of settings (e.g. asymmetrical prongs, uneven surfaces, uneven crown etc) can be totally avoided by having a perfect wax of the right ring size and crown to begin with. i.e. no post-casting metalwork needs to occur, other than setting the diamond and polishing work.

Vendors should offer customers this option in return for a premium, sort of as a guarantee of eye-clean workmanship. What do you all think?

 

[oldminer]

Anyone dealing with the public will claim consumers are difficult. Everyone changes their mind, from time to time. People don''t like what they ordered after they actually get to try it on. People are influenced by the comments others make and change from liking something to finding fault with it.
On the other side, vendors often don''t produce what was ordered. They often cut a corner or don''t finish up nicely. Setting of stones straight and tight often is not accomplished properly. Often a CAD design really is only a rough idea of what the item will turn out to be. It shouldn''t be this way, but many CAD operators simply don''t have the skill to complete a CAD design to the final product.

CAD is tempting because it is interactive and allows folks who can''t draw to make a clean design. It may not be a good design or a practical one, but it can be made in wax and if a consumer "approved" it, then the problems begin.

ALL custom work is subject to occasional problems of design details and workmanship. A simple design created by a fine craftsman is almost always a great job, but so many people want fancy work and there are so few truly excellent craftsmen.

 

[denverappraiser]

Cast pieces require post casting work. It’s inherent to the process and most of the complaints you describe come from that finishing process. Getting good at this takes far more practice than most people, even most jewelers, expect. The area that you are dismissing as 'polishing work' is the source of much trouble. Most pieces also involve assembly and most pieces that get discussed here have stones set into them. CAD improves the waxes, at least waxes of a certain style and it makes the process of revising the design far simpler but the remainder of the process remains the same as when the wax is entirely hand carved.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 11/1/2007 10:05:11 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Cast pieces require post casting work. It’s inherent to the process and most of the complaints you describe come from that finishing process. Getting good at this takes far more practice than most people, even most jewelers, expect. The area that you are dismissing as ''polishing work'' is the source of much trouble. Most pieces also involve assembly and most pieces that get discussed here have stones set into them. CAD improves the waxes, at least waxes of a certain style and it makes the process of revising the design far simpler but the remainder of the process remains the same as when the wax is entirely hand carved.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

It''s also a matter of maintaining good tools in good condition; burrs, files, etc., that wear over time. Non-pros would be amazed at how fast a bench worker goes through tools working with platinum (which adds to the cost of a ring). If a worker wants to save money by continuing to work with worn tools the finished piece will suffer. When it comes to wax good milling machines are also costly. Many wax printers do a capable job but, as Dave noted, the more complex or fancy the piece there is more potential for correction that must be done by hand.

Date: 11/1/2007 9:31:03 AM
Author:echelon6

Vendors should offer customers this option in return for a premium, sort of as a guarantee of eye-clean workmanship. What do you all think?

Good question... What is eye-clean? The naked eye? If, so who''s eyes?

How about with a 10X loupe? How about under a microscope at 20X or 40X or 100X? And - does ''workmanship'' imply perfect architecural symmetry to the tenth of a mm? Or when a piece is hand-finished is it reasonable to expect some forgiveness as the human touch lends art to the architecture?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/1/2007 9:31:03 AM
Author:echelon6

Vendors should offer customers this option in return for a premium, sort of as a guarantee of eye-clean workmanship. What do you all think?

Some do, Garry calls it competition level finish for example.

 

[echelon6]

Date: 11/1/2007 10:05:11 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Cast pieces require post casting work. It’s inherent to the process and most of the complaints you describe come from that finishing process. Getting good at this takes far more practice than most people, even most jewelers, expect. The area that you are dismissing as 'polishing work' is the source of much trouble. Most pieces also involve assembly and most pieces that get discussed here have stones set into them. CAD improves the waxes, at least waxes of a certain style and it makes the process of revising the design far simpler but the remainder of the process remains the same as when the wax is entirely hand carved.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Thanks Neil.

I'm not an expert myself but common sense tells me that polishing would not result in crooked prongs / dinged surfaces / bad pave etc I see people complain about. Could you elaborate on how polishing could possibly cause problems like asymmetry? I would've thought most of the problems with quality arise due to the fact that final assembly is required, e.g. crown needs to be soldered onto the shank, resizing, etc.

Date: 11/1/2007 10:05:11 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Good question... What is eye-clean? The naked eye? If, so who's eyes? How about with a 10X loupe? How about under a microscope at 20X or 40X or 100X? And - does 'workmanship' imply perfect architecural symmetry to the tenth of a mm? Or when a piece is hand-finished is it reasonable to expect some forgiveness as the human touch lends art to the architecture?

I think this issue can be solved easily by taking an approach similar to what WF has done with their definition of "eyeclean" in the context of diamond clarity. E.g. strmrdr proposed previously a "30 second rule" where if a person with 20/20 vision can't notice any flaws in symmetry and surface of the setting within 30 seconds with their naked eye at 12 inches, then its fine. (my interpretation of what he said, not his exact words)





I think the main issue I'm trying to get at is that many vendors, especially those with higher volumes, keep standard settings as stock. E.g. standard shanks and crowns. And clients will always come with different ring size and diamond size combinations which results in the vendor having to choose an appropriate shank and crown, then weld the two together, sometimes crudely. Also because of the premade crowns, sometimes the crown is slightly too big for the diamond and that shows in the prongs size relative to the diamond.

Vendors should offer customers the option (in return for extra money) to cast their ring, crown and shank and all, as one piece from a prototyped wax, to fit their ring size and diamond size to the last 0.1mm. This would then eliminate the need for final assembly and all the human factors JQ mentions and result in a much more symmetrical piece.

Again, right now I can't imagine the process of polishing, even if done by hand, can affect the otherwise ideal symmetry of a CAD protoyped wax cast. Doesn't the process just involve applying progressively smaller grain sandpaper, then progressively smaller grain grit pastes (or whatever they are called)? Of course, the actual setting of the diamond does require handsculpting of the final shape of the prongs, but at least that will be the only source of human imperfection in such a setting?

 

[echelon6]

I should clarify what I mean by prototyping: to render a wax model from CAD, then printing the wax out using a milling machine.

My original argument is that doing this each time results in a much more technically perfect setting.

And I''m not talking about custom settings, but stock settings only. With custom settings, many of the problems regarding client-side indecisiveness and lack of commitment which Dave mentioned is not an issue with stock settings.

The problem is I rarely see a technically perfect classic Tiffany setting. And from my personal observation, the main source of asymmetry is due to the crown being soldered onto the shank, resulting in a non-level or twisted crown (perhaps off by a degree, but definitely noticeable to the eye) relative to the shank.