LiW How many times have you been engaged?

[chiapet]

Engaged 3 times, married once, divorced once.... all before the age of 30. I don''t want to get married ever again but would love to get engaged again so I can get some new bling

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 8/12/2009 8:07:28 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 8/12/2009 4:44:19 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier

Date: 8/12/2009 4:39:18 PM
Author: monarch64
This is not part of the question, but I have been proposed to (without a ring) more times than I can count.

Only accepted 2 rings, been married once, now going through a divorce. I've had a few more ringless proposals in the past six months.

Also, I can cook and I enjoy cooking for and sharing a meal with someone, but I don't think I've ever even dated a man who hasn't told me that he loves to cook and would gladly cook for me every night of the week.

LOL, Monnie!

You just reminded me of my proposal via email, buy a guy I met when I was living in London.

The best part - he attached it as a Word doc. And it was 3 pages long.

Hahahaha! Proposal via email, omg! That's hilarious. Did you email back your answer? In a word attachment? ROFL

My grandmother has something like 5 solitaires from broken engagements. She was only married once, to my grandfather who died in '77. She is 85 years young. She was wearing one I'd never seen before last time I saw her, and I asked her if it was a new ring, because she's been dating a new guy for the past two years or so. She smiled as she looked down at it and said, 'oh no, this is from someone else, I think he thought we were engaged.' She wasn't being sarcastic or anything!

I said, 'Grandma, I want to be just like you when I grow up.' She got a kick out that.

I actually wrote back to him in VB Code.

A resounding, "no, thank you!" by the way.

That's an awesome story about your Grandmother and LOL @ your response to her! She sounds like an amazing woman!

 

[daydreamer]

At 37, I''ve, thankfully, never been proposed to or engaged.

I can and do, however, cook and enjoy sex.

 

[chiapet]

Well said, daydreamer. Well said

 

[sunnyd]

Just once for me...though I escaped a second one (ex) by a month!

 

[swimmer]

Monnie, your grandmother sounds fantastic!

I was proposed to three times, but only accepted one offer. I did however get to keep a nice ruby ring from the failed second attempt. At least he knew me well enough to figure I wouldn''t be interested in a diamond.

 

[Luckyeshe]

Date: 8/13/2009 7:17:11 PM
Author: swimmer
Monnie, your grandmother sounds fantastic!

I was proposed to three times, but only accepted one offer. I did however get to keep a nice ruby ring from the failed second attempt. At least he knew me well enough to figure I wouldn''t be interested in a diamond.

Swimmer, I''m in the same boat as you! I''ve been proposed to 3x. Two with a ring, one without. I took the last proposal seriously and am very happy with my FI and the pretty sparkly he got for me!

 

[tigian]

Once to my DH!

 

[Black Jade]

Have any of you ever heard the joke about the store selling wives?

Men go into the store. Once you choose a woman for your wife on one floor, you have to leave. You can''t go up to the next floor.
You also can''t ever go back to a previous floor.
The first floor is full of hot women who like sex.
The second floor has hot women who like sex and watch sports.
What''s on the third floor?
Nobody knows; no man''s ever gone further than the second floor.

On the other hand there''s the store that sells husbands for women.
Same rules.
A woman goes into it and goes to the first floor. This floor has very handsome men.
She''s so pleased with this, she thinks, "Let me go to the second floor."
The second floor has very handsome men who have jobs.
She''s like, "Wow, what''s on the third floor?"
The third floor has handsome men who have jobs and like kids.
She''s like, "This is amazing, I have to see what''s on the fourth floor."

The fourth floor has beeping, flashing lights and a robotic voice saying, "There is no more to this shop. Women are never satisfied. Please shut the door on your way out."

Enjoy your college classes, with their theoretical ideas about how men and women would behave in the ideal feminist paradise, girls. Just realize that in real life, it won''t necessarily work the way your teachers said. You aren''t going to change human nature as easily as all that. It''s not about changing yourself and pretending to be what you''re not in order to get married (that won''t work and I''m sure Vespergirl wasn''t saying that). Relationships are about imperfect people who know how to compromise and understand give and take. Feminism tends to be a little bit doctrinaire (okay, a lot doctrinaire)--and one really interesting thing about it is that women are always right and men are always wrong--actually, men are always oppressors, no matter what they do, it''s just always wrong. Compromise has no place in feminism. This is why a lot of women who think it would be a good idea for women to have equal rights so far as getting paid the same money for the same job, and to have the same educational opportunities, won''t call themselves feminists and feel that the word and the concept has been hijacked to somewhere that they don''t want to go at all.

As I read it, Vespergirl just said that men like their food and that men like regular sex and that women who are willing to work with these two facts of life are more likely to appeal to men, in her opinion. And suddenly the forum is full of snarky comments about ''domestic sex goddesses putting out'' and ''Stepford in 1950.'' Maybe you have a man who doesn''t like sex (they actually do exist, I know, although they are such a tiny minority that you couldn''t base anything statistically on them) and maybe your man cooks (which is great, I''ve taught my sons to cook, everyone should know how) or has no objection to eating out or having take-in every night. (I''ll bet that you are the one doing most of the ordering or picking up the takeout after working and bringing it home, though, if you''ve been in the relationship any amount of time. The honeymoon doesn''t count.) If that''s so, then fine. It''s no reason to make assumptions about her and to be rude, to her and to the rest of us who like taking care of our men and families in more traditional ways. It just makes you sound as if you''re threatened by her remarks and as if you''re not sure of yourself at all.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 8/13/2009 10:03:07 PM
Author: Black Jade
Have any of you ever heard the joke about the store selling wives?

Men go into the store. Once you choose a woman for your wife on one floor, you have to leave. You can''t go up to the next floor.
You also can''t ever go back to a previous floor.
The first floor is full of hot women who like sex.
The second floor has hot women who like sex and watch sports.
What''s on the third floor?
Nobody knows; no man''s ever gone further than the second floor.

On the other hand there''s the store that sells husbands for women.
Same rules.
A woman goes into it and goes to the first floor. This floor has very handsome men.
She''s so pleased with this, she thinks, ''Let me go to the second floor.''
The second floor has very handsome men who have jobs.
She''s like, ''Wow, what''s on the third floor?''
The third floor has handsome men who have jobs and like kids.
She''s like, ''This is amazing, I have to see what''s on the fourth floor.''

The fourth floor has beeping, flashing lights and a robotic voice saying, ''There is no more to this shop. Women are never satisfied. Please shut the door on your way out.''

Enjoy your college classes, with their theoretical ideas about how men and women would behave in the ideal feminist paradise, girls. Just realize that in real life, it won''t necessarily work the way your teachers said. You aren''t going to change human nature as easily as all that. It''s not about changing yourself and pretending to be what you''re not in order to get married (that won''t work and I''m sure Vespergirl wasn''t saying that). Relationships are about imperfect people who know how to compromise and understand give and take. Feminism tends to be a little bit doctrinaire (okay, a lot doctrinaire)--and one really interesting thing about it is that women are always right and men are always wrong--actually, men are always oppressors, no matter what they do, it''s just always wrong. Compromise has no place in feminism. This is why a lot of women who think it would be a good idea for women to have equal rights so far as getting paid the same money for the same job, and to have the same educational opportunities, won''t call themselves feminists and feel that the word and the concept has been hijacked to somewhere that they don''t want to go at all.

As I read it, Vespergirl just said that men like their food and that men like regular sex and that women who are willing to work with these two facts of life are more likely to appeal to men, in her opinion. And suddenly the forum is full of snarky comments about ''domestic sex goddesses putting out'' and ''Stepford in 1950.'' Maybe you have a man who doesn''t like sex (they actually do exist, I know, although they are such a tiny minority that you couldn''t base anything statistically on them) and maybe your man cooks (which is great, I''ve taught my sons to cook, everyone should know how) or has no objection to eating out or having take-in every night. (I''ll bet that you are the one doing most of the ordering or picking up the takeout after working and bringing it home, though, if you''ve been in the relationship any amount of time. The honeymoon doesn''t count.) If that''s so, then fine. It''s no reason to make assumptions about her and to be rude, to her and to the rest of us who like taking care of our men and families in more traditional ways. It just makes you sound as if you''re threatened by her remarks and as if you''re not sure of yourself at all.

My husband picks up the take out pretty much every night...and then he does the dishes, too! I''m really not sure how he finds the time because he''s always busy oppressing me and trying to make me have sex with him. I mean, I did it before we got married but that was just to bag him...who puts out AFTER you get married?! YUCK.

P.S. For someone who seems to be lumping herself in your own category of a "real" feminist, you sure seem to dislike women! (I guess that would be "girls," actually...I forgot how condescending you were trying to sound!) Your generalizations sure are entertaining, though...gosh, that''s something I really miss about ATW!

 

[crossmyfingers]

Well... Just to answer the original question...

I''ve never been officially engaged. I''ve talked seriously about marriage and I suppose I''ve been engaged without a ring twice, but nothing I would consider *real*.

Hopefully I will have a ring by the end of this year, though!

 

[Laila619]

Twice.

The first time was a mistake. We called off the engagement and I gave the ring back.

The second one was the right one. We are now happily married.

And I would NEVER cook for some boyfriend to try to "get" him to propose to me. The MAN is the one who should be trying to win the woman over and prove he'll be a worthy spouse, not the other way around. DH cooked for me all the time when we dated.

 

[monarch64]

Huh. I really did enjoy my women''s studies classes in college. There were men in both of mine.

And we didn''t sit around telling them how oppressive they were, either. Black Jade...it''s nice that you support Vesper, and it''s nice that you support traditional male/female roles if that''s what you believe. But your sweeping generalizations and opinions which you state as fact, about feminism, are so far removed from my definition of feminism that I can''t even relate to what you''re saying.

Here''s an excerpt from an email I received from a gentleman who''s company I enjoyed last Friday evening: (note: I didn''t put out, and I didn''t cook for him, either. ) "I am a better man for the time you shared a tiny part of your life with me. I will always remember you with great fondness and you have a special place in my heart. My soul is a little less broken because it touched yours, even if only briefly. Thank you. Know that on your darkest day that there is one man that adores you. Please take good care of your beautiful heart." Just thought I''d share. Clearly he is an oppressive individual which is why i had to give him the boot.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 8/13/2009 10:03:07 PM
Author: Black Jade
It just makes you sound as if you're threatened by her remarks and as if you're not sure of yourself at all.

Honestly, Vespergirl did a great job clarifying what she felt needed to be said about her own comment.

If you take care of your hubby in a traditional manner, great, if that's what he needs and you like to do. If someone else does something different, and it works for them, who is to say which is better? You seem hellbent on trying to prove to everyone that you are 'more right' than people who have a different relationship style. The world is endlessly more complex than that. Shall I tell my gay gal pals that want to get married to have more sex and cook more? Surely you realize that life is not one-size fits all, and that just because something is 'tradition', doesn't make it inherently good or superior. (nor bad or inferior)

You, m'dear, seem far more threatened by the comments of others than Vespergirl or any of the other posters. I certainly don't think any of these women with cooking BF's, FI's and DH's are threatened by the idea of domestic women. And I doubt that they are envious either.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 8/14/2009 1:33:25 AM
Author: trillionaire
I certainly don''t think any of these women with cooking BF''s, FI''s and DH''s are threatened by the idea of domestic women. And I doubt that they are envious either.

That is very true. I would find it exhausting and tedious to cook for my DH every night! Luckily he doesn''t care in the slightest.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 8/13/2009 10:03:07 PM
Author: Black Jade
Enjoy your college classes, with their theoretical ideas about how men and women would behave in the ideal feminist paradise, girls. Just realize that in real life, it won''t necessarily work the way your teachers said. You aren''t going to change human nature as easily as all that. It''s not about changing yourself and pretending to be what you''re not in order to get married (that won''t work and I''m sure Vespergirl wasn''t saying that). Relationships are about imperfect people who know how to compromise and understand give and take. Feminism tends to be a little bit doctrinaire (okay, a lot doctrinaire)--and one really interesting thing about it is that women are always right and men are always wrong--actually, men are always oppressors, no matter what they do, it''s just always wrong. Compromise has no place in feminism. This is why a lot of women who think it would be a good idea for women to have equal rights so far as getting paid the same money for the same job, and to have the same educational opportunities, won''t call themselves feminists and feel that the word and the concept has been hijacked to somewhere that they don''t want to go at all.

As I read it, Vespergirl just said that men like their food and that men like regular sex and that women who are willing to work with these two facts of life are more likely to appeal to men, in her opinion. And suddenly the forum is full of snarky comments about ''domestic sex goddesses putting out'' and ''Stepford in 1950.'' Maybe you have a man who doesn''t like sex (they actually do exist, I know, although they are such a tiny minority that you couldn''t base anything statistically on them) and maybe your man cooks (which is great, I''ve taught my sons to cook, everyone should know how) or has no objection to eating out or having take-in every night. (I''ll bet that you are the one doing most of the ordering or picking up the takeout after working and bringing it home, though, if you''ve been in the relationship any amount of time. The honeymoon doesn''t count.) If that''s so, then fine. It''s no reason to make assumptions about her and to be rude, to her and to the rest of us who like taking care of our men and families in more traditional ways. It just makes you sound as if you''re threatened by her remarks and as if you''re not sure of yourself at all.

You know, I think you really need to figure out what the term "feminism" means. Because this doesn''t jive with my no-women''s-studies-classes-taken-in-my-college-career definition. Having said that, I have taken plenty of classes on relationships and differences between genders--only none were based in or taught by the Women''s Studies department of my university. Oh, and feminism doesn''t just have to do with "equal rights" and "getting paid the same money for the same job". The women (and men) who buy into the "raving psycho fem-nazis" (which I have a clue is how you view them) really should do their research on feminism.

Just because what you do works for you does not mean it is the only way. You''ve been beating that dead horse for quite some time now.

(And did you even see the "Stepford Wives" movie with Nicole Kidman? The men programmed the women to do what they wanted--sex and domesticity-aka cooking and keeping a perfect house. Which, um, was essentially what Vespergirl said in her original post.)

And now as I read back through your post, are you implying that college classes are completely ideological and have nothing to do with real life, and therefore we essentially shouldn''t pay attention to them? I could have sworn that you were a college professor? Not exactly something that I would expect to come out of ANY collegiate professor''s mouth (keyboard). I read your statements as "your college education is essentially meaningless".

I''m not going to go further in how else I would translate how I interpreted your words...

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 8/13/2009 10:10:59 AM
Author: vespergirl
This is just some advice from a woman who was engaged 3 times before the age of 30 to women who are waiting for a proposal on a thread dedicated to how much they want a proposal. Take the advice or not - it may not work for some, but it worked for me. I will also mention that I received the first two proposals after one year of dating, and my last one after two years.

Just wanted to point out that most of the women (perhaps even all of them) who have posting things contradictory to what you said are engaged/married.

And yes, everyone needs to be true to themselves, and I am so very sorry for your friends. Divorce is a terrible thing to go through.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

hmmm. this has been some interesting friday afternoon reading.

I was asked once by my daugters dad, but i didn''t take him seriously... i told him if he was serious he had to do it with a ring, but he never did, thank god!

I have only ever been engaged once, to my now fiance, who i will marry in 6 months and 30 days.

 

[Black Jade]

Reading back over my post in the morning, after a good night''s sleep, I think that it was badly phrased and inflammatory, so I apologize for writing it.l

While I still do not agree with many of the statements made here, I think I was bringing some of my past experience into the question and venting on people who had nothing to do with that experience. I was in the first group of women who were allowed into schools that had been traditionally male back in the early seventies, and I was very much a feminist as all of us who pioneered in doing this at that time were and very anxious to prove that women were capable of doing the things that I was doing (this was seroiusly doubted by many in a way that would not be believed by young women nowadays). However when I started working and especially when I started teaching in college I was truly distressed by what feminism came to be represented as by the nineties (and nowadays), the distortions of history that I had lived through used to make points for propaganda, the great hostility to the choices of traditional wives and mothers and the doctrinaire thinking that became increasingly narrow. At all the colleges I taught at, the teachers who identified themselves as feminists behaved (in private, perhaps not in front of their students) in ways that appalled me, even when I like them personally. My key experience in this regard was about ten years ago when I was teaching at the local Catholic college and a colleague was teaching at the local women''s college (both are small schools but well-known and quite well-regarded). I became pregnant and was allowed to take time as at the Catholic college, it was stressed that one''s family was most important. My (male) boss was very supprotive and kind. Meanwhile, my friend became pregnant at the women''s college. She was told that a) no one had gotten pregnant at that college for the last twenty years--though the professors are overwhelmingly female and of child-bearing age. b) the last professor who had gotten pregnant had ''arranged'' to have the baby during winter break and never missed a day of classes and c) she was expected to do the same. And she was just treated as if she was letting down all women by being pregnant and that she was a really bad example. She was a married woman in a stable relationship. This is not an isolated situation. I know of one woman who was actually told that the best thing for her to do would be to have an abortion, when she got pregnant at a time that her (female) boss told her was not convenient for her career. This woman was also married. I could list examples of not just the kind of thing, but other things of the same nature, endlessly. The time that one professor told me that she was having her students read certain books because "they need to know that adultery is an important option for women." The time the department classicist, who was a specialist in Latin literature, world renowned was passed over and the feminist professor, from a completely unrelated department, was given the job of teaching the other professors how to teach the Aeneid (which was, in her view, a poem about how relationships with men were ''always'' toxic for women because Aeneas left Dido very early in the book and she committed suicide). But here I am ranting. I WAS inappropriate--but this is where I am coming from.
I do indeed believe that certain departments in most colleges have become ideoligical brain-washing factories and that the students who are being targeted are probably not aware that this is happening.
Best to you

 

[Diva0413]

Twice, one of them being to my current FI. And hopefully the last time.

ETA: I read all the other posts after I posted my answer. WOW! What an interesting read!

 

[Indylady]

Zilch!

 

[jaylex]

Date: 8/12/2009 4:46:04 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 8/12/2009 3:22:54 PM
Author: Black Jade

Date: 8/12/2009 2:18:37 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 8/12/2009 2:08:10 PM
Author: vespergirl
Engaged 3 times, but married twice. I was engaged the first time at age 22, to my first husband, when we were just out of college - we were married for two years.

Then I was engaged again at age 26 to a lawyer I had been with for a while, but he had anger issues, so I broke off the engagement after 4 months.

Finally, I met my husband at 27, and we got engaged & married when I was 29 - we have now been married for 3 years, have a 2 year old son, and another baby on the way.

My advice to any young women who want to be engaged is this:
1. Learn how to cook. Not just one dish either. I cook for my husband almost every night (we go out once or twice a week) and it's totally a way to get to a man's heart. Most men don't want to be eating takeout every night for the rest of their lives.
2. Be an avid sexual partner. Not to get too explicit, but men like to think that they will continue having sex after marriage, otherwise they won't want to take the plunge.

My advice is, don't be someone who you don't plan to be in marriage, before marriage. If you plan to be a cooking, cleaning sex goddess for the rest of your life, then by all means... but men marry you for who you are, not who you might become. If you are cooking all the time and putting out, they aren't going to appreciate it when you stop. Just be true to yourself... don't try to bait a man into marrying you, you will probably regret it later.

Some women do like to cook (I personally consider it an art and find it a great outlet for creativity) and also there are a FEW women (I would think anyway) who lenjoy having sex with the man they love and don't think of it as 'putting out'. You may not have meant it this way but it sounds a bit like a put down to say something like 'If you plan to be a cooking, cleaning sex goddess for the rest of your life, etc.' as if that must somehow be fake or inferior.

In this current economy it's great for the budget if someone knows how to cook. (Not to speak of the waistline). And what's the point of getting married if not to have sex? If you just want to be friends who live in the same house, I don't get the point of bothering to get married.

Sorry, but your remarks really rubbed me the wrong way and seemed like a putdown of vespergirl (though I don't agree with her about sex before marriage.)

I am a cooking, sex goddess myself... some days!

But if you are not, I don't think you should make yourself such a person to 'get someone to marry you'. I think that society these days is full of 'gimmicks' for women to get the guy. I appreciate Vespergirl's commentary, but I wanted to offer something different for women who don't see themselves as 'that person'. My comment may not have resonated with you, but it might for others. I certainly meant no put-down of Vespergirl!


ETA:
I can see how 'putting out' could have the wrong connotation, but I am brash sometimes... I've only been with the man I am marrying, so the terms don't matter much to me.

Trill, i just wanted you to know that when I read your original post and read your "putting out" comment, I knew you didn't mean anything bad by it. We've talked some on here and I've read a lot of your posts so I knew you didn't mean it with a negative connotation. I actually loved your response! Especially the "cooking, cleaning sex goddess" part. You have a way with words, my friend!

I agree with both your and vespers original comments... but I want to add something to vespers..
I think that the main focus on her "sex partner" comment should be on the word "avid"... as in enthusiastic... not necessarily that sex continues, but that we are... "enthusiastic" about it.
It's my belief that men don't want someone to just "

" all their lives... Sex just for sex sake would be boring after awhile, no? I'd say "playful" would be a very appropriate adjective.

And yes, my man loves (and appreciates) that i can cook, but I love that he does the dishes... and that he's willing to cook on the nights that I work late... or when I simply just don't feel like it. For instance: One time, I was cooking dinner and had had a really bad day at work and the meal wasn't going well and I was really frustrated... Even though he tried to help me, I was just so beyond

that the meal (and the evening) seemed beyond repair. He turned the stove off and marched me straight to the car and to my favorite restaurant.
When we got back, he insisted that i rest on the sofa while he cleaned everything up for me. Now THAT is a man

 

[jaylex]

Oh. And bf will be my first (and only) engagement! And I'm STOKED!

 

[House Cat]

Date: 8/12/2009 2:18:37 PM
Author: trillionaire


My advice is, don't be someone who you don't plan to be in marriage, before marriage. If you plan to be a cooking, cleaning sex goddess for the rest of your life, then by all means... but men marry you for who you are, not who you might become. If you are cooking all the time and putting out, they aren't going to appreciate it when you stop. Just be true to yourself... don't try to bait a man into marrying you, you will probably regret it later.

The true definition of feminism for me...I think.

I stay at home with my children and love to cook. I like doing these things and feel that my life is a gift. Would I shove my lifestyle on another woman who feels rewarded by having a high powered career? Heck no. She is who she is, and I admire her for it. I would hope that there might be a part of her that has some respect for me in what I do. I didn't sell out. I had the career, but found that I felt more rewarded at home. I decided to be true to myself, just as Mrs. High Powered Business Woman is being true to herself by climbing the corporate ladder. Everyone is different.

Every MAN is different as well. Some men like women who cook, others do not find that to be a priority. I do find the notion that a woman who cooks as a criteria for marriage material a bit silly. I mean no offense by that btw. It just seems to be a very small thing. Cooking classes exist but personality defects are rarely ever healed.

I think the one thing that all SECURE men find attractive are women who are true to themselves.


I've been engaged three times, never married, actively planning my first wedding.

PS..Trill, you're fabulous.

 

[Elmorton]

Black Jade, what I learned in school is that feminism is actively seeking out the voice that is repressed/oppressed, engaging that voice, and inviting that voice to be heard in the dominant culture. A feminist perspective, from this definition, is a good thing regardless of gender, sexual orientation, culture or race and is a valuable way to look at life.

And, it''s this definition that challenges what Vesper said. Her advice seemed embedded in mainstream culture - like looking at dating/marriage advice stemming from an Episode of Everybody Loves Raymond: keep a man''s gut full and get randy, and that''s what marriage will be. The women in this thread have responded with a feminist - not oppressive - response, which explains that there are other ways, other types, other likes/dislikes that men have, even if these roles and relationships are not what the dominant mainstream culture tends to see. Is there something wrong with that?

In terms of what students learn in a liberal arts education - uh...what?

I think the world has changed, hon - or the sphere of academia in which you''re working is too small of a bubble. First, in every department I''ve learned or taught in, the chair has been a woman - furthermore, as I think of it, all of those women have also been mothers. In graduate school, I knew people who were having children as they pursued degrees, and the department was not only accommodating, but threw baby showers and supported the family unit. I currently have colleagues who are new mothers. First, there are laws that protect these women, but second, it''s this feminist perspective that is prevalent where I teach - women can have a career AND a family and that femininity, fertility, and family relationships are something to be applauded, because there are MANY roles and personalities that a woman can achieve.

And, to address "brainwashing" - since I began teaching, I''ve been engaged in conversations about preserving the rights of students who have ideological differences from the mainstream - both conservative and liberal. I teach argumentation, so if I really wanted to brainwash my students, it wouldn''t be that hard - I could just fail every "abortion is wrong" paper - but I probably wouldn''t be in my department for long, because I wouldn''t be teaching my students anything about argument if mine was the only relative one. Most everyone I know uses critical pedagogy - I think you''d really enjoy reading about Paolo Freire. It may restore your faith in higher ed. Because of the marked use of critical pedagogy and feminist perspective, my experience of higher learning is that it is of the most respectful and nurturing environments I''ve been in - and that respectful environment is why I stayed with the field and continue to teach with a feminist perspective.

This thread is so ridiculously OT now, so my apologies to the OP.

Here''s my short answer:

Just once.

 

[Haven]

I've been engaged twice.

The first time was when I was terribly young (21) and we never made any concrete plans to marry after the proposal.

The second time was when my husband proposed to me, I was 27.

As for the cooking and sex conversation . . .

First of all, being a feminist and cooking meals are not mutually exclusive things.

Second, I understand and agree with both Vesper's and Trill's points. Men and women have expectations for marriage, and they are looking for certain things from their future spouse. Of course, if you put on a facade to appear to fulfill your boyfriend's expectations, that is going to lead to trouble in the long run.

However, your role does change when you become a spouse, and both men and women would be wise to make sure that their potential spouse exhibits abilities/inclinations/etc. that they are looking for in their spouse. (I'm assuming you don't live together before marriage, here, as that is all I know from my own experience.) Now that we're married, I cook a lot more than I ever did when we were just dating, and DH mows our lawn and fixes things around the house more than he ever did when we were just dating. We happen to like these things, but even if we didn't, they'd still have to get done. Face it: people have to eat, clean their home, launder their clothes, mow their lawns, take out the trash, etc. These are the little chores of life that you don't have to face nearly as much when you're just dating someone and not making a home with them.

For me, cooking isn't about being the little woman, or a Stepford wife. It's about supporting our mutual goals to be healthy and to spend our money wisely. We like to know what we are putting in our bodies, and we have things we'd rather spend our money on than dining out. I happen to enjoy cooking, so I do most of it. I find it amusing when people equate cooking with the subjugation of women. Everyone has to eat, and I know I would feel so very dependent if I had to rely on others to eat well.

ETA: I didn't address the best part, the sex!
I only know my own experience, but an active and fulfilled sex life is extremely important for both partners, not just the man. I have to say that as a woman I would be hesitant to marry a man who did not have a sex drive, as that is important to me. So, I suppose I'm saying that it goes both ways.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it's all about expectations, whatever they are. None of us can say what is right or wrong to expect in a spouse, but we must be aware of our own and our partner's expectations if we're going to have a successful marriage.

 

[makemepretty]

Once, to my husband and after 18 years of marriage, he still asks me to marry him almost every day ;0) He''s determined to get me to renew our vows.

 

[Treasure43]

Just once, to my FI

 

[simplefears]

Zero

 

[b.anna]

once to my current hubby to be! and i know it''s meant to be because he will eat whatever i cook - and i cannot cook