How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the one'?

[upgrade-me]

I've been upgrading my e-ring throughout the years and now I'm on my 3rd upgrade. The 2 previous times went smoothly; not so much this time around. Both diamonds before were G, SI2 GIA diamonds. Now I want to upgrade to a 2.30 - 2.50 carat but have to drop to an H-color to meet my budget. The issue? I've had to reject 2 diamonds already and I still need to keep looking.

The 1st 'reject' was supposedly eye-clean but once it arrived at WF, they discovered it had a white feather along the top of the girdle. They said they could cover most of it with a prong. Sitting in the Fedex parking lot, I opened the box and the feather was not hidden but set next to a prong. Back it went the same day.

Now I selected another diamond supposedly 'eye-clean' and once again, this also has a visible feather along the girdle (sigh). WF told me that the setter could put the prong on the feather to hide it. They apparently couldn't do it on the 1st diamond because it would have covered the inscription(?). I asked if they could set the ring and then send me a picture. WF said that if they set it, they need to send it. I just don't want to go thru the hassle of getting it, rejecting it and sending it back (and once again coughing up another $100 fedex return fee). Therefore, I said to just send it back.

So, to make me feel better (& give me hope), I'd like to ask the audience:

1. How many diamonds were brought in for you (and you rejected) before you found 'the one'? How many weeks/months did it take? For me, I've already rejected 2 and I've been looking 7 weeks already (5 - 7 days/wk).

2. When you rejected the diamond, did you ask the online vendor to refund your bank wire/credit card payment? I'm curious because now my credit card statement is cutting off and I don't even have a prospective diamond. It's a good chunk of money to pay out without even a potential diamond in mind. PLUS, I sent back my original diamond so I am out a) my original diamond and b) my credit card is cutting off.

Would love to get people's feedback. Thanks!

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

You're looking for a large SI2, it sounds like you aren't working with in-house stones but having WF source for you? And you aren't "laid-back when it comes to eyeclean" by your standards. Large truly eyeclean SI2s (and SI2s with completely and easily prong-able inclusions) are much harder to find than small eyeclean SI2s, and because they're great value propositions vendors will scoop them up for their own in-house inventories early in the process, meaning that your odds of running into one in the virtual inventory for example are low.

I think this comes down to "you can have it done quickly, done cost-effectively, or done well - pick two". In this case you've chosen "cheap" (by virtue of going SI2, even accounting for the costs of shipping multiple stones back) and "done well" (by choosing a reputable vendor and not compromising on other characteristics like make), so it may well take a while, and several attempts, unfortunately.

Having gone through this a couple of times... To be completely honest I think you might want to consider dropping size and going up in clarity: your odds of finding an eyeclean SI1 reasonably quickly are much, much better!

I don't understand what you mean by "your credit card statement is cutting off", but before beginning this process did your sales rep explain that you would be responsible for shipping fees on stones WF approved but you rejected? If not, definitely call in and see if they would be willing to negotiate on at least the shipping for the first attempt, as that should have been made clear up-front. If you were aware then that cost remains your responsibility.

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Yssie - thanks for your response.

1. No, I am not working with in-house WF diamonds. I already doubled my original budget when I 1st started looking almost 2 months ago. I don't want to up it again to buy an in-house diamond.

2. "Large truly eyeclean SI2s (and SI2s with completely and easily prong-able inclusions) are much harder to find than small eyeclean SI2s, and because they're great value propositions vendors will scoop them up for their own in-house inventories early in the process." Yes, I've noticed this. I've seen videos at JA which appear nowhere else on anyone else's website...and they've got some really nice ones.

3. Yes, WF already mentioned that I should look for SI1 diamonds instead to have a better chance of finding something eye-clean. If I stay in my budget, pickings are super slim. Like you said, I'd have to drop the size/carat weight. However, my original diamond (the one I sent back to WF) was a 1.81 carat. If I drop my search from i.e. 2.30 carat down to i.e. 2.10 carat, I won't even notice a difference in spread. For me, there would be no point in upgrading then. The other option would be to drop down another color grade. I've had G-color GIA diamonds in the past. I've already lowered my expectations to an H-color. I could drop down to an I-color, but I don't know if the 'warmth' would bother me.

4. What I mean by "your credit card statement is cutting off" is my credit card cuts off this weekend. If I wanted a WF to issue me a refund, I've missed the deadline. It takes 2-5 business days for refunds to get reflected to my account. My original charge of $9k (difference between new diamond which I don't have since I've rejected 2 already less my trade in value) will show up on my next credit card bill. In other words, I will be paying $9k for a diamond I don't have. At this point, it's almost like a 'security deposit'. I've paid money out, but don't even have a diamond on order. Does that make sense? My husband was pretty angry when I told him 'no, I didn't ask WF for a refund yet'. He says I should ask WF for the refund and call the credit card company to ask them to apply the 'late' refund to our billing cycle. Not sure if this clarified my original comment...

5. "Before beginning this process did your sales rep explain that you would be responsible for shipping fees on stones WF approved but you rejected" I've only paid for return Fedex overnight shipping when they actually set the ring, shipped it to me and then I returned it to back to them. And 'no', they never told me that I would have to pay for the overnight return shipping. The 2nd diamond I rejected was not even set/shipped to me; they brought the virtual diamond in house to WF, sent me pictures/ASET/etc. and told me that this one also had a feather. I rejected it on the spot; no fee incurred at all.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[chrono]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Given your fussiness with regards to clarity and wanting size, I would only shop for in-house diamonds only and expect it to take several months. As for the credit card billing cycle, that is your responsibility. You will have to pay for it and then have it show up as a credit for the next cycle unless you can time it well.

 

[tyty333]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

If you mean that your CC is cutting off because you have maxed it out...call your CC company and tell them what is going on.
See if they will up your limit. If you are in good standing a lot of times all you have to do is ask.

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

No, I am not maxing out my credit card.

I am trying to take into consideration that businesses get charged credit card/interchange fees each time they charge a customer's credit card. What happens if it takes me i.e. 5 times until I find the 'one'? Does WF really want to charge me, refund me, charge me, refund me, charge me, etc? Probably not. I know what my company pays for these fees and that would slowly eat into WF's profit margin. Should I care? Maybe not. I know my husband cares less and just wants to get a credit on the card since I don't even have a diamond on order.

 

[egemnoel]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

I have rejected many stones in the past until I found a vendor who is a perfectionist and will only sell me the most perfect stones. I no longer need to worry and have the stress of doubting the stone that when it arrives will I need to return it. Life is too short!

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Egemnoel - when you rejected several stones, were you charged each time on your credit card and then refunded it back each time? I guess it all depends on which vendor you go with, what their policy is on bringing stones in and when they actually charge you.

 

[egemnoel]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

In the past I always wired the funds to take advantage of the wire transfer rates. I always got my money back less cost of insurance and shipping. The new vendor I work with, no such issues he gets it right every time and I don't need to look elsewhere and compare 100's of different stones. I can also see the diamonds for free at his cost that why I moved vendor. I have just recently purchased another stone from him almost 40k without having seen it.

 

[baby monster]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

You can't pay for your credit card than the current balance so even if vendor refunds after the statement cycle closes, there's no need to pay the balance before the credit came through. You only need to pay the net. If you anticipate waiting a while for the next option, ask WF to give you a refund and recharge the card again when suitable stone comes up.

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Wow, $40k sight unseen. Good for you. I've been doing the looking myself and asking WF 'can you see if GIA cert XXX is available and if so, is it eye-clean'? Other than their in-house diamonds, WF hasn't recommended any other diamonds for me to look at.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Hello Upgrade Me,
I'm sorry you are having some frustrations in trying to find your perfect upgrade. As Yssie mentioned above, it is challenging to find an Si2 that is technically eye-clean in 2ct+ sizes. A GIA report does not always tell us everything we would like to know before bringing a stone in, and the description we get from the supplier does not always correlate with the customer's expectation regarding clarity.

I do not know all of the details of your order, but I will be talking to our team today to see if there is a way I can help facilitate things. You are welcome to contact me directly if you feel you need additional assistance ([email protected]).

We are in this with you and we definitely want to nail it for you if at all possible. Our virtual model is different from others in that we perform all the same gemological and imaging evaluations that we do on our own inventory. Since we spend substantial resources in performing this service, we feel the frustration too, believe me!

 

[egemnoel]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Wow, $40k sight unseen. Good for you. I've been doing the looking myself and asking WF 'can you see if GIA cert XXX is available and if so, is it eye-clean'? Other than their in-house diamonds, WF hasn't recommended any other diamonds for me to look at.

Ring Wink HighPerformance Diamonds - He has 7 SI2's in stock. He will tell you what is best and eye clean you may need to jump to an SI1. Wink is your best man to guide you.

Good Luck.

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/?orderby=carats&hpd_search=&min_price=0&max_price=91396&min_caret=&max_caret=&min_color=&max_color=&min_clarity=si2&max_clarity=si2

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

To baby monster - good point, I could always ask the credit card company that I pay the net balance once my payment is due (sometime in early July). I'll follow up with them to confirm.

To Texas Leaguer - I do realize now that looking for clean SI2 will take patience and a lot of looking. And yes, I do agree, that sometimes certs don't show all inclusions. That's what happened with the 1st diamond brought in. There were no feathers on the cert but once it was brought in, there was one on the girdle. I will reach out to my point of contact again when I find some more diamonds for him to look into. Thx.

To egemnoel - is Wink an appraiser or a online diamond retailer? Because my upgrade policy is with WF, I can't go elsewhere to find a diamond.

Thanks to all.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

I know it can get overwhelming & frustrating to go through to find the "perfect one". Not to mention that the stress chips away your sanity. After all, it's just a diamond. Keep in mind also that vendors are told all kinds of stuff too from their suppliers. A lot will be told the stone is a good make & eye clean only for the stone to be a dog. Another option is to change your setting preference. For example..stone A had a feather that was small enough that could be hidden by a prong but wasn't because of the inscription. What if you just bezel the entire stone since you are looking at SI-2s? If anything is at the edge, it will be hidden & possibly more secure. When I 1st got my ring way back in 2003 I HAD to see the inscription. I looped it every day. Now I don't care. LOL Like that old woman on the Franks Red Hot commercial....I bezel the **** out of everything. Consider a bezel if you find another stone like A that is clean except the edge.

Keep smiling. It will happen sooner or later.

Judy

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Well, I think your husband is right in letting WF worry about their own profit margins your concerns should be limited to your concerns - card limits, billing cycles, whatever else you've got on your plate. If at some point WF feels that your project is untenable, or that your expectations are unreasonable, it's up to them to either tell you that definitively and politely decline to continue calling stones in or choose to continue regardless and eat whatever losses they may incur. I can state with complete certainty that WF is not going to make off with both your money and your stone - whatever the outcome, you will not suffer any unfair loss, and you and WF will be able to come to a mutually acceptable definition of "fair". I know I'm just an anonymous faceless form to you, but I hope the reassurance is comforting nonetheless Re. the "cutting off" - I think I understand now, and if I'm understanding correctly calling your CC company and explaining the situation sounds like a really good idea: if you're in good standing they may well be willing to waive some of the minimum payment/interest for this cycle. I also don't think it's fair to charge you for return shipping if you weren't told you'd be responsible for it beforehand! Definitely call WF.

Re. your hunt itself... I think you might be hoping for confidence we just aren't going to be able to give you, sadly. As Chrono said, you're looking for the needle in the haystack - and burning the hay to find the needle is not an option! You could be waiting for a long time (months), and you could wind up paying quite a bit in return shipping. That's through no fault of WF's, though - you're looking for a well-cut, eyeclean, large, lower-clarity stone, a stone worthy of inclusion in a vendor's in-house inventory but that all the vendors in the diamond supply chain somehow missed so it comes at virtual inventory pricing...

Re. the first stone: did they mention if the inclusion was prong-able at the expense of masking the inscription? Where on the girdle was the inclusion, and how many prongs will your setting have? There are lots of reasons an inclusion close to the girdle might still be extremely difficult to prong - covering the inscription may have been just one of many reasons.

You've been searching seven weeks. WF is not going to recommend outside stones - why would they spend time chasing manufacturers, etc., for something that may or may not be available at the moment when they've got in-house stones that are known winners to sell? And even if they were willing to search for you... they remain at the mercy of manufacturer descriptions and report plots regardless of who takes the initiative to call specific stones in. I doubt your expectations are unreasonable in terms of finding a stone (in-budget) in the size and colour you want that's clean to your requirements, but I hate to say that I do think expecting to find it in any short or predictable time frame is most probably going to lead to disappointment


egemnoel - I consider Wink a friend and wouldn't hesitate to recommend him and his business - he is most definitely one of the Best Men in this industry!! I confess that your posts in this thread are really rubbing me the wrong way though: OP has explicitly stated that her trade-in credit is with another vendor - another vendor that also has beautiful in-house stones that, just like CBIs, sell at a premium. You highlight a good experience with another organisation that OP is unable to take advantage of, and you casually suggest moving up in clarity without any acknowledgement of OP's explicit detail of size requirements and budget constraints... you really aren't doing your preferred vendor any favours at all.

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Yssie & baby-monster - just called my credit card company and explained to them that a refund may come in late (past when my billing cycle cuts off) and would I be able to apply the refund to my billing cycle (that cuts off this weekend). They said 'yes' - Whew! I'll just have to call in to ask what my 'new' balance due is when it is time to pay (in July). That makes me feel better. Now I have to let the hubby know.

"Did they mention if the inclusion was prong-able at the expense of masking the inscription? Where on the girdle was the inclusion, and how many prongs will your setting have?" No, I was initially told that the feather was in a place that most or all of the prong could hide it. The feather was on the crown near the girdle. I am getting a 4 prong plain gold setting.

For sh*ts and giggles, I ran in-house diamonds for the same range I've been looking at. I'd have to plunk down another $7k - $10k. Not even possible. I extended the range to include I-color and I'd still have to add $4k. Still not possible.

I will just have to 'be patient'.

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Good luck Upgrade!! I'm very glad to hear that your CC company is willing to let you apply a late refund. As I mentioned there might be several reasons "we think this is prongable" turned into "no can do", of which the inscription is but one, unfortunately.

I do believe your perfect upgrade will crawl out from under whatever rock it's hiding beneath, if you're willing to wait for it

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Yssie - Now only if someone could just point me in the right direction of that special rock, all would be good...

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Yssie - Now only if someone could just point me in the right direction of that special rock, all would be good...

let's be realistic, you'll probably trip over it and curse it before recognising it - isn't that always the way of things?

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

To all -

Just an update. My point of contact at WF reached out to me this afternoon. They acknowledged that they should have given me the heads up that they couldn't prong over the feather without covering the inscription. They just pronged next to the feather and sent it out to me. Obviously not liking the diamond, I returned it and had to pay a return shipping fee.

To make up for that, they offered to set the 2nd diamond which also has a feather by the girdle (they apparently haven't sent it back to the diamond dealer yet). They believe they can prong it to be eye-clean, ship it to me and if I don't like it, the return shipping fee would be on their dime. I think that is a fair gesture on their part. I only asked that they send me clear pictures of the set ring. If the feather visually still bothers me, I told them to not even bother shipping. Why waste time/effort/money if I know I'm not going to like it/want it.

Thanks to all for your feedback!

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

To all -

Just an update. My point of contact at WF reached out to me this afternoon. They acknowledged that they should have given me the heads up that they couldn't prong over the feather without covering the inscription. They just pronged next to the feather and sent it out to me. Obviously not liking the diamond, I returned it and had to pay a return shipping fee.

To make up for that, they offered to set the 2nd diamond which also has a feather by the girdle (they apparently haven't sent it back to the diamond dealer yet). They believe they can prong it to be eye-clean, ship it to me and if I don't like it, the return shipping fee would be on their dime. I think that is a fair gesture on their part. I only asked that they send me clear pictures of the set ring. If the feather visually still bothers me, I told them to not even bother shipping. Why waste time/effort/money if I know I'm not going to like it/want it.

Thanks to all for your feedback!

Do you have any pictures of this stone loose?

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Pictures are attached

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Wow, talk about service. The ring has been set. If I had to take a guess, I believe the feather is under the top left prong. It will be shipped today for tomorrow pick-up.

 

[Laila619]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Wow, talk about service. The ring has been set. If I had to take a guess, I believe the feather is under the top left prong. It will be shipped today for tomorrow pick-up.

Omgosh, it sure looks gorgeous to me!!!

 

[baby monster]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

That's a speedy resolution

 

[marcy]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

It looks very pretty.

 

[yssie]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Wow, talk about service. The ring has been set. If I had to take a guess, I believe the feather is under the top left prong. It will be shipped today for tomorrow pick-up.

No, this stone's faceting pattern indicates the inclusion will be under/just anti-clockwise from the lower R. prong in the pic.

The inclusion sits squarely under an upper girdle facet (UGF), between the bezel/pavilion main meet and the UGF meet. Imagine a piece of paper folded in half, then placed on the table so that it forms a tent with a straight crease down the middle and sloping plane sides. The UGF meet is the crease, and the UGF facets are the planes that slope away from the crease, and the bezel facets (also called kite facets) are the flattest part of the crown. There are 8 UGF facet pairs. Inclusions sitting under the UGF like this are very difficult to prong with four or eight evenly-spaced prongs, especially on a larger stone, because the those prongs will all sit on UGFs that slope the same way, "pushing" the stone to turn so that the prongs sit on the flat bezel facets instead. You'll notice WF deliberately did not attempt to completely prong the inclusion by placing prongs on the sloped UGFs, but instead placed the prongs on the symmetric creases formed by the UGF meets... the inclusion will be close to but not directly under the prong - likely partially covered; I can't tell from the photo exactly how much of the inclusion is covered. In any case - even if only minimally covered - having a prong right next to it will be a visual distraction.

ETA: I've rotated the stones to match faceting for you

 

[upgrade-me]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

Yssie -
You sure know your stuff! After looking at the circled areas that you highlighted, I do see what you are saying about the location of the feather. In comparison, this feather is smaller than the one on the first diamond (in a previous post with similar idealscope, aset & diamond images). I am crossing my fingers that most of the feather is hidden. I really couldn't tell in the pic WF sent me.

Thanks for your insightful feedback!

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Re: How many diamonds did you reject before you found 'the o

That looks like a nice stone to me. I hope the inclusion isn't noticeable in person or at least difficult to find.

** fingers crossed for you **
Judy