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How is this cut? And thoughts about med blue flourescence?

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Hi there. This is my first post, and thank you to everyone for sharing all of your advice and experiences. I am considering this stone, and wondering what your thoughts are:

GIA 3.32
9.63 x 9.66 x 5.86
E
SI2
Cut, Polish, Symmetry = Excellent
Flourescence = Medium Blue

Table = 57
Depth = 60.7
Crown = 34.0
Crown Height = 14.5
Pavillion = 40.8
Pavillion Depth = 43.0
Girdle = Medium
Lower Half = 80%
Culet = None

I have not seen it in person, but wondering if it's worth it to take a look?

Thank you for your thoughts!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,674
You can run the numbers through the HCA tool...

 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Some people will tell you that Med+ florescence becomes a bit of a risk as you get into colorless ranges... Is that risk 50/50? Or is it like, 20%? I don't know that anyone knows, but it's there at a higher rate than in lower color stones (supposedly). If you have the opportunity to handle the diamond for a few days to be sure, then you'll know whether it's indeed negatively effected (milky/oily/hazy in sunlight), or whether you scored a nice discounted E stone with a cool nightlife feature! :)
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Some people will tell you that Med+ florescence becomes a bit of a risk as you get into colorless ranges... Is that risk 50/50? Or is it like, 20%? I don't know that anyone knows, but it's there at a higher rate than in lower color stones (supposedly). If you have the opportunity to handle the diamond for a few days to be sure, then you'll know whether it's indeed negatively effected (milky/oily/hazy in sunlight), or whether you scored a nice discounted E stone with a cool nightlife feature! :)

Thank you so much for your thoughts! I will take a look at the stone in person - is there anything besides milky/oily/hazy that I am looking for in the sunlight? If I see a hint of blue, is that a bad thing, or is it personal preference?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
13,005
Some people will tell you that Med+ florescence becomes a bit of a risk as you get into colorless ranges... Is that risk 50/50? Or is it like, 20%? I don't know that anyone knows, but it's there at a higher rate than in lower color stones (supposedly). If you have the opportunity to handle the diamond for a few days to be sure, then you'll know whether it's indeed negatively effected (milky/oily/hazy in sunlight), or whether you scored a nice discounted E stone with a cool nightlife feature! :)

As far as I understand, med fluor is very rarely an issue. Its typically only a concern with v. Strong fluor and D/E color.

What are the inclusions? And do you have any pics?
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
As far as I understand, med fluor is very rarely an issue. Its typically only a concern with v. Strong fluor and D/E color.

What are the inclusions? And do you have any pics?

Good to know - hopefully this medium blue is not an issue too. I am working w/ a jeweler I have used in the past, and generally trust his opinion. He says re: inclusions, there are "twinning whips" on the edges of the stone. Almost like spiderwebs.
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Do you think SI2 w/ twinning wisps is not worth seeing in person? I've been told the flaw is white so it blends, but I'm not sure what to look for. I know I'd like eye clean, but at what magnification is viewing the flaws more or less acceptable?

Thank you for your advice!
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
1,363
Thank you. It sounds like a helpful tool, but I would need a separate membership to use?

You should get 3 results for free, but it looks like you’ve been signed up as a trade member. Once the trade badge is removed from your profile you should be able to access HCA.

Yiu can do it yourself through the settings page or hit “report concern” at the bottom of any one of your posts and ask the mods to remove the trade badge from your profile.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,855
The proportions of the stone are within the generally recommended guidelines. And the HCA checks out good.

For me, the MBF is *not* a deal breaker but do your homework and make sure it's not milky or cloudy looking as a result. I might be biased. My wife's stone is an H-VS2 w/ MBF and we have no issues with it. Hers has never turned blue in the sunlight, but it's a lower color than your proposed E. Lastly, on the stones that do show a blue tint, some love it and others don't. There isn't a right or wrong, it's a personal preference. However, the current market pricing says fluor is less desirable so if you found 2 identical stones the one with MBF should sell cheaper as a result (assuming the other had none).

On a side note, this stone looks like it was cut very tight. We can obtain obtain theoretical weight as noted below. Look at how close this is.
  • Length x width x depth x 0.0061 = theoretical weight
  • 9.63 x 9.66 x 5.86 x 0.0061 = 3.3253 carats
  • Weight per cert = 3.32 carats
My biggest concern here would be the clarity. The stone is larger than average. There aren't a ton of eye clean SI2's and as you go larger in size, the reality of finding an eye clean SI2 decreases even further.

Perhaps you have a unicorn. If so, I'd hold on tight.

I would definitely want to take a peek in-person. Ask your jeweler if he can ship in for you to evaluate. Find out what hassle/cost may be involved if you reject. While you are waiting for it to arrive, I would buy an ASET or idealscope scope and learn how to read the images and take into the store with you to see how the stone compares. Also when viewing in-store, ask to view not only under their super duper jewelry lighting but in the back office under standard fluorescent lighting and also outside (even if they have to escort you). Testing in as many lighting environments as possible will help ensure you get a stone you love.

Capture.PNG
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
16,247
You need to see it in shaded daylight to see if the twinning lights up in medium UV prescence.
Not direct sunlight.
Please people - dont ever tell newbies to look at diamonds in direct sunlight.
1619163642324.png
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
The proportions of the stone are within the generally recommended guidelines. And the HCA checks out good.

For me, the MBF is *not* a deal breaker but do your homework and make sure it's not milky or cloudy looking as a result. I might be biased. My wife's stone is an H-VS2 w/ MBF and we have no issues with it. Hers has never turned blue in the sunlight, but it's a lower color than your proposed E. Lastly, on the stones that do show a blue tint, some love it and others don't. There isn't a right or wrong, it's a personal preference. However, the current market pricing says fluor is less desirable so if you found 2 identical stones the one with MBF should sell cheaper as a result (assuming the other had none).

On a side note, this stone looks like it was cut very tight. We can obtain obtain theoretical weight as noted below. Look at how close this is.
  • Length x width x depth x 0.0061 = theoretical weight
  • 9.63 x 9.66 x 5.86 x 0.0061 = 3.3253 carats
  • Weight per cert = 3.32 carats
My biggest concern here would be the clarity. The stone is larger than average. There aren't a ton of eye clean SI2's and as you go larger in size, the reality of finding an eye clean SI2 decreases even further.

Perhaps you have a unicorn. If so, I'd hold on tight.

I would definitely want to take a peek in-person. Ask your jeweler if he can ship in for you to evaluate. Find out what hassle/cost may be involved if you reject. While you are waiting for it to arrive, I would buy an ASET or idealscope scope and learn how to read the images and take into the store with you to see how the stone compares. Also when viewing in-store, ask to view not only under their super duper jewelry lighting but in the back office under standard fluorescent lighting and also outside (even if they have to escort you). Testing in as many lighting environments as possible will help ensure you get a stone you love.

Capture.PNG

Thank you so very much. Fortunately I can drive to see the stone, and can meet the jeweler outside for viewing. I am definitely a newbie and want to know what I am looking for. This is so very helpful, thank you!!!
 

John Pollard

Rough_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
45
You need to see it in shaded daylight to see if the twinning lights up in medium UV prescence.
Not direct sunlight.
Please people - dont ever tell newbies to look at diamonds in direct sunlight.
Good advice. Here's a quick explanation about sunlight and diamonds.

1. Environmental limitation: The diamond is ‘looking’ for light sources from horizon to horizon (180 degrees) but the sun is only a single light source which occupies just 1/2 of a degree of sky.

2. Human physiology: Bright sunlight causes the pupils of your eyes to constrict, or get smaller. So, while you see the (very) vivid sparkles that single (very) bright source creates, the constriction of your pupils makes the surrounding areas effectively dark.

See more here: In-Person viewing - Make Comparisons like an Expert

 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
You need to see it in shaded daylight to see if the twinning lights up in medium UV prescence.
Not direct sunlight.
Please people - dont ever tell newbies to look at diamonds in direct sunlight.
1619163642324.png

I appreciate the specific direction you provide to this newbie, thanks so much. I can drive to see the stone and will look in indirect sunlight. I'm told there are no dark inclusions and the flaws are white so it blends together.

We shall see! This would be a trade up with the jeweler we purchased my current stone from, so trustworthy, family owned company. And additional advice is much appreciated. Thank you so very much again.
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Good advice. Here's a quick explanation about sunlight and diamonds.

1. Environmental limitation: The diamond is ‘looking’ for light sources from horizon to horizon (180 degrees) but the sun is only a single light source which occupies just 1/2 of a degree of sky.

2. Human physiology: Bright sunlight causes the pupils of your eyes to constrict, or get smaller. So, while you see the (very) vivid sparkles that single (very) bright source creates, the constriction of your pupils makes the surrounding areas effectively dark.

See more here: In-Person viewing - Make Comparisons like an Expert


Wow, thanks so much. I cannot believe how generous everyone is with their time and knowledge. I truly appreciate the help!!! (And I really enjoy learning all of this information!)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,855
Thanks @Garry H (Cut Nut) and @John Pollard for additional clarification. Early this AM when I responded I said outside but failed to state indirect sunlight. As you have pointed out, there is a difference.

@CaliGal5 before you go, have you looked at the section of this site that focuses on diamond pricing? You didn’t mention the price of the stone, but doing a little research may help you confirm the great price your jeweler is offering, or it may help arm you with some info to negotiate a more favorable price. However, if you are trading in an existing stone and upgrading the equation gets a little trickier as you have to consider additional elements. Glad to dive in more if you need some help.
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Thanks @Garry H (Cut Nut) and @John Pollard for additional clarification. Early this AM when I responded I said outside but failed to state indirect sunlight. As you have pointed out, there is a difference.

@CaliGal5 before you go, have you looked at the section of this site that focuses on diamond pricing? You didn’t mention the price of the stone, but doing a little research may help you confirm the great price your jeweler is offering, or it may help arm you with some info to negotiate a more favorable price. However, if you are trading in an existing stone and upgrading the equation gets a little trickier as you have to consider additional elements. Glad to dive in more if you need some help.

Thank you. I think I did the calculator correctly: looks like similar stone is $42,700. So if I take that price, minus what my trade in value is (which is the same as what I paid 10 years ago), that should be the out of pocket I can expect to pay? What are the upgrading elements I need to consider? Thank you!
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
IMG_1357.jpg .
Just got back from viewing the stone outdoors/in my car. This is not the best picture, but it is definitely eye clean. Under 10x loop, there's a lot going on, but mostly along the sides, and mostly blends in.

I am tempted because it "shows" larger than 3.3 but also seems to be a good cut and excellent color.

I guess I need to weigh paying for an E vs F or G, which I think I would also be fine with. I do like the size and cut.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,855
Thank you. I think I did the calculator correctly: looks like similar stone is $42,700. So if I take that price, minus what my trade in value is (which is the same as what I paid 10 years ago), that should be the out of pocket I can expect to pay? What are the upgrading elements I need to consider? Thank you!

I got similar results, but expanded a bit to include size additional size ranges to give you a more complete data set. Also, I broke down not only by total dollars but $ per carat. What I found interesting was the single value for the 3.32 stone appeared lower than the 3.25 and 3.30 data sets.

I didn't sift through every stone, but my mile high glance was the vast majority of them were garbage in cut quality & clarity. I think your E-SI2 is much better than "average" assuming it's truly eye clean like you said (I am not certain, as noted further below).

As far as evaluating your trade value. You may have a simple equation if you bought your original stone/ring from the jeweler that brought in this E-SI2 for you. Many times people have to sell their stone, or take a discounted rate.

It sounds like you get dollar for dollar. If there are no other catches, it should be as simple as negotiated price - trade value ($ you paid 10 years ago) = today's $ price

1619211580362.png

IMG_1357.jpg .
Just got back from viewing the stone outdoors/in my car. This is not the best picture, but it is definitely eye clean. Under 10x loop, there's a lot going on, but mostly along the sides, and mostly blends in.

I am tempted because it "shows" larger than 3.3 but also seems to be a good cut and excellent color.

I guess I need to weigh paying for an E vs F or G, which I think I would also be fine with. I do like the size and cut.

How good is your visual acuity, and how zoomed in was that photo? To me, it appears I can see the whisps in the areas I tried to highlight in red below.

InkedIMG_1357_LI.jpg
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
I got similar results, but expanded a bit to include size additional size ranges to give you a more complete data set. Also, I broke down not only by total dollars but $ per carat. What I found interesting was the single value for the 3.32 stone appeared lower than the 3.25 and 3.30 data sets.

I didn't sift through every stone, but my mile high glance was the vast majority of them were garbage in cut quality & clarity. I think your E-SI2 is much better than "average" assuming it's truly eye clean like you said (I am not certain, as noted further below).

As far as evaluating your trade value. You may have a simple equation if you bought your original stone/ring from the jeweler that brought in this E-SI2 for you. Many times people have to sell their stone, or take a discounted rate.

It sounds like you get dollar for dollar. If there are no other catches, it should be as simple as negotiated price - trade value ($ you paid 10 years ago) = today's $ price

1619211580362.png



How good is your visual acuity, and how zoomed in was that photo? To me, it appears I can see the whisps in the areas I tried to highlight in red below.

InkedIMG_1357_LI.jpg

So helpful, thank you for doing all of this research! Yes, sounds like it could be an easy equation since the jeweler is willing to give me exactly what I paid 10 years ago. Here is another picture if it's helpful. The first one I posted was cropped and not reflective of what I saw in person.
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
So helpful, thank you for doing all of this research! Yes, sounds like it could be an easy equation since the jeweler is willing to give me exactly what I paid 10 years ago. Here is another picture if it's helpful. The first one I posted was cropped and not reflective of what I saw in person.

IMG_1358.jpg
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
11,204
IMG_1357.jpg .
Just got back from viewing the stone outdoors/in my car. This is not the best picture, but it is definitely eye clean. Under 10x loop, there's a lot going on, but mostly along the sides, and mostly blends in.

I am tempted because it "shows" larger than 3.3 but also seems to be a good cut and excellent color.

I guess I need to weigh paying for an E vs F or G, which I think I would also be fine with. I do like the size and cut.

I hope that there is just a lot of dust and dirt stuck on the diamond. Right? Maybe it wasn't properly cleaned. Or maybe you don't see it? So that's why it's eye clean to you?
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Thank you everyone, this has been quite an educational experience.

I will pass on this stone, and in fact now I'd like to explore other options to resell my current stone, rather than feeling tied to this particular jeweler. If you have any reputable recommendations, please let me know.

In a perfect world, I will find a stone similar size: 9.63 x 9.66 x 5.86 (slightly bigger or smaller is fine), F, G, H color and VS1, VS2 or SI1. Most important though, is cut.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,855
Selling a pre-loved stone can be a feat. I'm not sure what your expectations are on the value you might obtain, but about 50-70 cents on the dollar where I think you will land. Unless you have something really rare, diamonds are a horrible investment.

That said, I assume the other stone in the picture is your existing stone so it appears you have a decent sized stone. What are the specs on that stone, and can you upload a copy of the certificate?

A few things come to mind:

1. There is a pre-loved section here. You might get some interest, especially if it falls within ideal proportion territory.

2. You could try selling through the local markets such as eBay, Craigslist or FB Market. Surprisingly I have sold a boat load of stuff through FB Market and some with bigger price tags. There are no selling fees (unless you do shipping) and I find the buyers to be less flaky than Craigslist.

3. You could commission with a retailer like Good Ole Gold (GoG), Diamonds by Lauren (DBL), etc.

4. Some of the vendors may be open to taking an outside trade. I have heard of James Allen (JA), White Flash (WF) and HP Diamonds (HPD) doing so in the past.

On a final note if cut is most important, you may consider sticking with super ideal vendors that specialize in heart & arrow (H&A) diamonds, prestigious AGS000 certification and maximum fire & beauty. Vendors like WF, HPD, Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD), Victor Canera (VC) and even some of JA's "True Heart" collection.

WF, HPD & VC have the unique benefit of offering a no strings attached type of trade policy where you can spend equal or greater value and trade stones at will. This can be very powerful in helping you slowly build up to your desired stats. Or may help you get in with say an H-SI1 and then move up in color or clarity as money and/or available stock allows.

The others have good trade programs too, but have other restrictions like making you upgrade multiple C's in the process, or spend 2x the amount, etc.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,088
I will pass on this stone, and in fact now I'd like to explore other options to resell my current stone, rather than feeling tied to this particular jeweler. If you have any reputable recommendations, please let me know.

In a perfect world, I will find a stone similar size: 9.63 x 9.66 x 5.86 (slightly bigger or smaller is fine), F, G, H color and VS1, VS2 or SI1. Most important though, is cut.
Is your current stone graded by GIA?

G/H VS stone in this size is much more balanced.
 

CaliGal5

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
23
Selling a pre-loved stone can be a feat. I'm not sure what your expectations are on the value you might obtain, but about 50-70 cents on the dollar where I think you will land. Unless you have something really rare, diamonds are a horrible investment.

That said, I assume the other stone in the picture is your existing stone so it appears you have a decent sized stone. What are the specs on that stone, and can you upload a copy of the certificate?

A few things come to mind:

1. There is a pre-loved section here. You might get some interest, especially if it falls within ideal proportion territory.

2. You could try selling through the local markets such as eBay, Craigslist or FB Market. Surprisingly I have sold a boat load of stuff through FB Market and some with bigger price tags. There are no selling fees (unless you do shipping) and I find the buyers to be less flaky than Craigslist.

3. You could commission with a retailer like Good Ole Gold (GoG), Diamonds by Lauren (DBL), etc.

4. Some of the vendors may be open to taking an outside trade. I have heard of James Allen (JA), White Flash (WF) and HP Diamonds (HPD) doing so in the past.

On a final note if cut is most important, you may consider sticking with super ideal vendors that specialize in heart & arrow (H&A) diamonds, prestigious AGS000 certification and maximum fire & beauty. Vendors like WF, HPD, Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD), Victor Canera (VC) and even some of JA's "True Heart" collection.

WF, HPD & VC have the unique benefit of offering a no strings attached type of trade policy where you can spend equal or greater value and trade stones at will. This can be very powerful in helping you slowly build up to your desired stats. Or may help you get in with say an H-SI1 and then move up in color or clarity as money and/or available stock allows.

The others have good trade programs too, but have other restrictions like making you upgrade multiple C's in the process, or spend 2x the amount, etc.

Thanks so much. It’s good to know these other options. While the local jeweler will give 100% back for the trade, I am starting to see a numbers game with the purchase. I might be just as well off selling my stone and starting over with one of the retailers you mention with a much better trade policy.

I would be hesitant to sell my stone directly, I think. It is GIA certified, and after looking more closely yesterday (comparing with the potential purchase), it’s actually a very good stone! (2.56, H, SI2 but inclusions are closer to SI1 and must less than the stone I was considering yesterday, excellent cut, no fluorescence).

I guess I’m just looking for something slightly bigger - ironically not too much bigger as this is strictly for my enjoyment and don’t want to draw attention to a new purchase.

I’ve searched Whiteflash and they seem amazing. I like the idea of Victor Canera just because they are in state for me.

Thank you for your supportive reply. I appreciate the guidance and explanation so very much. Seems I have a lot of work to do, but I’ll enjoy this journey! :)
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
11,204
Thanks so much. It’s good to know these other options. While the local jeweler will give 100% back for the trade, I am starting to see a numbers game with the purchase. I might be just as well off selling my stone and starting over with one of the retailers you mention with a much better trade policy.

I would be hesitant to sell my stone directly, I think. It is GIA certified, and after looking more closely yesterday (comparing with the potential purchase), it’s actually a very good stone! (2.56, H, SI2 but inclusions are closer to SI1 and must less than the stone I was considering yesterday, excellent cut, no fluorescence).

I guess I’m just looking for something slightly bigger - ironically not too much bigger as this is strictly for my enjoyment and don’t want to draw attention to a new purchase.

I’ve searched Whiteflash and they seem amazing. I like the idea of Victor Canera just because they are in state for me.

Thank you for your supportive reply. I appreciate the guidance and explanation so very much. Seems I have a lot of work to do, but I’ll enjoy this journey! :)
While the local jeweler will give 100% back for the trade, I am starting to see a numbers game with the purchase. I might be just as well off selling my stone and starting over with one of the retailers you mention with a much better trade policy.

Yup! You're getting wise to it. So true! I had been in a similar boat with my OEC. So my previous jeweler does not lose out, they just price the new stone at a premium. How can you argue? WF's prices are what they are, so there's no numbers game when you want to upgrade. Unfortunately my OEC's vendor is not structured like WF is.
 

macper

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
1
Hello,

Apologies if posting in someone else's thread isn't the right etiquette, but i didn't want to create another thread on the same question I had as the OP. I'm considering purchasing a 1.12C, D, VS1 stone and wondering if anyone can tell if there will be any haziness or oiliness (due to medium blue fluorescence) from the stock videos? I read online that a lay person would be able to instantly tell if a diamond was hazy from videos, but wouldn't that depend on the lighting used? As its from an online inventory, I've requested photos in diffused lighting and sunlight. Also i've seen some medium fluorescent diamonds display a level of blue tinge in sunlight, does this vary in intensity from medium fluorescent diamonds to another? Below is a link to the video and attached is the GIA certificate indicating inclusions.

V360 Viewer (diamondasset.in)

Annotation 2021-05-03 222105.jpg

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
 
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