How important is sexual fidelity to you?

[mellowyellowgirl]

Courses for horses and all that.

I am just obsessed with the notion of epic love.

I watched a Chinese series last year and for a whole month I was floating around swooning at hubby like a lunatic. I fancied that we were similar to the main characters in the series and it was all so very very very epic, it made me giddy.

All that just dies if he cheated. I could not live with that. I'm an all or nothing girl. If I can't have epic love I'll get a few golden retrievers.

 

[canuk-gal]

When a partner cheats, it makes the other partner feel less than, insufficient, unable to meet the needs of the other and that's something that I don't remember being addressed in the discussion. The issue may not be the cheating itself but the realization that the cheating is a symptom of something else. Again, this idea is brought to you via a brain soaked in 2 Manhattan cocktails on an empty stomach. Note to self: do not drunk post.

eat some poutine!!!!

 

[Matata]

eat some poutine!!!!

I'm eating Haagen Dazs Swiss Vanilla Almond to water down the effects of the alcohol. Substituting alcohol high for sugar high.

 

[Lookinagain]

you would leave thm because he put his pe=== in another human being?

Other than the health risks, which are real, it's not the pe===in another human being, it's the lies needed to accomplish that. Although I don't really like the idea of the pe==in there either.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I just went to look-up the stats on infidelity. It is actually less than I thought 26% of men admit to it. But interestingly, the older a man get the more likely he may stray. But, more importantly to me, was that the author stated that it is a fallacy to think only bad marriages contain infidelity. Infidelity occurs in both good and bad marriages Do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. All the good counts.

Yes, I know several men who were unfaithful to their wives. But they did love them and their families. Their wives I don't think ever knew. No divorces.

I do not advocate infidelity. I never experienced it myself, but as I get older I really am less judgmental. I have given advise to people to stay in the marriage if its a good one. You can always leave later.

Annette

 

[missy]

Annette I understand your point of view. I know you mean well. But it really is an individual decision.

When I write I would consider my marriage a lie it means because the promises we made to each other were broken and trust is gone. So what I thought we had was a lie.

An analogy I can make from real life experience because thankfully my dh has never cheated on me emotionally or sexually. So I am speaking in the theoretical when answering the original question. But here is a real life experience. Not the same but an analogy.

I was friends with this group of girls. I thought they were true friends. I trusted and confided in them. To find out later they were talking behind my back and being insincere and nasty. I ended our friendship. It was actually an easy decision but still I mourned the relationship I thought we had. Not the one we actually had because that was a lie. Our friendship was a lie. They were not my friends ever. Just pretending to be. So while I was sad it was not over losing these fake friends but losing what I thought we had which we never had. Does that make sense?

I know with 100% certainty my dh loves me and would never cheat on me. How can I know for sure? I just do. After 25 years together the track record speaks for itself but more importantly, I know the man I married. And I love him even more today than I did 25 years ago. And that is saying a lot.

 

[missy]

Adding I personally do not think one can have a good relationship without trust. IMO

 

[seaurchin]

Here's my take on it. I've been married for so long that when I reconnected with an old single friend, I was weirdly amazed when she talked about taking trips, buying furniture and so on. I kept saying, "You mean you just decided to [x,y,z] and you just did it?!" She must have thought I'd been dropped on my head haha. But it made me think about how different it is to go through life as half of a couple than as a single, for me at least.

Basically, everything I have or care about is intertwined with my husband. Our love for sure but also our (grown) kids, money, home, routines, friends, pets, many years of history and plans for the future up to burial. It made me think about how I would never just let a friend move in for a while or buy a refrigerator or much else that my friend does freely, without consulting with him, and that's not even considering dating. Heck, I don't even leave the house without consulting him or at least leaving a note (and he does the same with me, if it needs to be said).

I feel very fortunate to have such close companionship and security but I also give up a lot for it. If I couldn't even trust him to have my back when it was turned, that would be a whole different deal and then I'd rather have all the independence and freedom my friend has. So I guess, to me, it comes down to return on investment lol.

All that said, we all get our knocks in life and have to deal, and we're all susceptible to falling short in various ways. To me, I really doubt I'd immediately pack up and leave if my spouse cheated. After I got done beating him with a frying pan (denting that beautiful Le Creuset OMG!) I'd probably want find out what went wrong and why, and fix it so it wasn't likely to happen again. Not just throw it all away over a mistake, massive though it would be. But if it was long term or multiple affairs or etc., that would be different.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Of course it is an individual decision. However, to base ones whole marriage on an act of infidelity seems as if this one part of the marriage is more significant than any other part. If I feel cherished, loved and emotionally secure and satisfied, that would mean more than the infidelity. But, of course you may believe what you wish. I know you mean well.

Annette

 

[missy]

Hi,

Of course it is an individual decision. However, to base ones whole marriage on an act of infidelity seems as if this one part of the marriage is more significant than any other part. If I feel cherished, loved and emotionally secure and satisfied, that would mean more than the infidelity. But, of course you may believe what you wish. I know you mean well.

Annette

I think the cheating signals something very wrong in the marriage. So for me it’s not just the cheating. It’s why would that happen when we communicate and love respect and trust each other. That’s why I feel that way. Cheating is only the symptom but there’s a much deeper problem if your spouse is cheating. IMO

 

[missy]

I just asked my DH and he said marriage is like a glass crystal. Once it's broken (someone having an affair for example) you can try glueing the pieces back together but it will never be the same.

 

[LilAlex]

Once it's broken (someone having an affair for example) you can try glueing the pieces back together but it will never be the same.

But: Kintsugi! You can still create something that is beautifully flawed.

Arguing against my stance above, I know. I think it's bad but not the 100% irredeemable dealbreaker that some other offenses are.

 

[mom2dolls]

1000% would leave if he put his pickle somewhere else. Absofreakinglutely! Distrust, disrespect

 

[seaurchin]

Very interesting replies.

I guess another way of looking at it is: You have to ask yourself, is it REALLY worth giving up your entire lives and your past together if one person had a fling, or an affair that lasted a few short months? (As opposed to something that went on for years and maybe produced a child. That would be too much.) But just for a fling, short affair, or a one-night stand, throwing away your history, your sense of home in each other, breaking it all up, dividing possessions, moving house, starting anew...just because of some brief times with someone else, for whom your partner might feel some fondness but where you are still the real deal for him. I'm in a process of transition and am thinking aloud; I don't know how I feel about this stuff myself; I'm just bouncing ideas around.

Seems that blowing up a whole life over a few brief episodes of sexual contact isn't worth it. This is controversial, but maybe we should give some thought to the facts of the male sexual experience, which is that for many men, sex really is just sex, and is separate from making love with the woman they love. I'm told the latter is a MUCH more emotional experience for a man. Another fact is that men have ten times the testosterone than us, so logically you'd expect longterm fidelity to be harder for men than for women.

Maybe as long as we continue to demand one thousand percent sexual fidelity over many decades, we are going to experience more divorces than are perhaps necessary. It's almost impossible for us to understand, but for many men, sex outside their relationship means absolutely nothing and is like getting a massage. Apparently when they say it meant nothing, it literally meant nothing.

I must sound like I'm making excuses for cheaters. I'm just trying a different way of thinking about an issue that causes a lot of divorces, and as long as the relationship is good and the errant partner still really loves his partner, I'm just not sure that zero tolerance for fifty decades is the wisest course of action. People are only human, after all.

Also, I just don't want to be beholden to this fear of someone cheating when you have zero control over whether it happens or not. I don't want it hanging over me, threatening me with devastation. Tired of letting the bogeyman idea of having a partner cheat on me have power over me. Perhaps we would be happier if we mellowed out about it. It's not like anyone WANTS their partner to cheat, but perhaps we shouldn't put ourselves through such complete and utter hell if they do. Maybe we should thank them for opening the marriage and go out on a sexy date or two ourselves...

I haven't conducted any surveys lol but just wanted to address the idea of men liking sex more than women do because I don't think it's true at all, more a male superiority/entitlement myth or something along those lines, along women typically having more to lose than men do, in more than one way, with casual sex. Also, assuming these are hetero men, each one who cheats is cheating with a woman, so it doesn't really even make sense. JMO.

I also think there's a lot of gray area between just looking the other way when a partner cheats on you and feeling like you'd have no recourse but to immediately end the relationship if they did. For ex., marriage counseling. And before that, being careful and taking your time about who you give your heart to in the first place.

 

[missy]

But: Kintsugi! You can still create something that is beautifully flawed.

Arguing against my stance above, I know. I think it's bad but not the 100% irredeemable dealbreaker that some other offenses are.

Yeah murder is definitely worse

 

[Austina]

Honestly, I don’t know how I’d react if I found out my DH had been cheating on me.

I can never understand men saying “it didn’t mean anything” if they get caught out, somehow to me that’s worse. If it didn’t mean anything, then why did you risk everything for a quick leg over? I’d almost feel I could forgive if I was told that they’d fallen in love, but realised what they had wasn’t worth risking everything for with the other person.

Fortunately, I’ve not been in that position, and I can well understand feeling that your life had been a lie if you found out the person you were with for many years had been betraying the trust you had in them and your relationship.

 

[missy]

I haven't conducted any surveys lol but just wanted to address the idea of men liking sex more than women do because I don't think it's true at all, more a male superiority/entitlement myth or something along those lines.

100% this. Who said women don't love making love just as much as men do?
Please let's put that very old myth to bed (haha pun intended) for once and for all

"“The whole of feminine history has been man-made"

 

[MamaBee]

1000% would leave if he put his pickle somewhere else. Absofreakinglutely! Distrust, disrespect

“his pickle”

 

[LilAlex]

Yeah murder is definitely worse

No, I mean this, which I posted above:

If my spouse learned that I were cruel or abusive to the vulnerable -- kids, animals, you name it -- that would be the end. She'd be gone that very day and there would be no reconciliation, ever. She would not be at my side in court or at a press conference.

Infidelity is awful. There are awful-er things that fall far short of murder.

I am not 100% sure about anyone's past behavior. I may be 99.99% sure but I can never be 100% sure about anyone. Even about myself, I have imperfect or burnished recollection.

 

[seaurchin]

Re "his pickle." Because I'm twelve.

 

[missy]

No, I mean this, which I posted above:

If my spouse learned that I were cruel or abusive to the vulnerable -- kids, animals, you name it -- that would be the end. She'd be gone that very day and there would be no reconciliation, ever. She would not be at my side in court or at a press conference.

Infidelity is awful. There are awful-er things that fall far short of murder.

I am not 100% sure about anyone's past behavior. I may be 99.99% sure but I can never be 100% sure about anyone. Even about myself, I have imperfect or burnished recollection.

Wow, yes, I agree. I’d be gone in a flash. As I wrote in my very first post in this thread fidelity is necessary but *not* sufficient.

But if you don’t know your own spouse well enough to know that they would not be cruel to animals or children or those most vulnerable in this world I don’t know what to say. I am 100% sure about my dh and his past behavior and while I cannot predict anything future wise with 100% certainty this is not an issue I am concerned about. But I can’t say the above with 100% certainty about anyone besides my DH and my immediate family

 

[seaurchin]

I heard something not long ago by a retired detective on some true crime blog or whatever (don't remember exactly where now). I may have mentioned it on here before. Anyway, he said we all have three "selves": the public self, the private self and the secret self.

I guess the only way to get glimpses into someone else's "secret" self is time, with their private self providing clues to their so-called "secret self."

I mean, sure, anyone COULD secretly be a habitual cheater, liar and far worse, even if they seemed saint like. But it seems much more likely to me that you'd already know that person was at least somewhat shady, after knowing them for a while. IDK, just thought it was an interesting concept.

 

[LilAlex]

I am 100% sure about my dh and his past behavior

May I direct you to the thread on naïveté vs. cynicism?

There is virtually nothing I am 100% certain of. None of those certainties involve past human behavior -- even my own. Twenty years ago?

 

[seaurchin]

"Cheating" covers a lot of ground too. I mean, none of it is desirable but imo a flirtatious, over the line discussion; a drunken one night stand; an emotional affair; a three year long affair; and multiple sneaky sex partners are all different things possibly with different deeper reasons and calling for different responses.

I have to get off this thread. Dwelling on this topic is starting to make me paranoid.

 

[LilAlex]

I have to get off this thread. Dwelling on this topic is starting to make me paranoid.

OMG same! Lemme watch my Iggles

 

[missy]

"Cheating" covers a lot of ground too. I mean, none of it is desirable but imo a flirtatious, over the line discussion; a drunken one night stand; an emotional affair; a three year long affair; and multiple sneaky sex partners are all different things possibly with different deeper reasons and calling for different responses.

I have to get off this thread. Dwelling on this topic is starting to make me paranoid.

Yes totally agree. IMO an emotional affair is just as (if not worse than) a physical one.

And lol I am feeling the opposite. Reading this thread makes me even more sure of my dh and our solid marriage. But yeah. People sure do vary. And that’s ok but I still stand by everything I wrote. For me

May I direct you to the thread on naïveté vs. cynicism?

There is virtually nothing I am 100% certain of. None of those certainties involve past human behavior -- even my own. Twenty years ago?

Been there and answered

And I am 100% certain of my past behavior because honestly 20 years feels like yesterday to me. So not that long ago. You know that quote? The older one gets the faster time goes because it’s a small percentage of your life. And well let’s just say I’m old enough to say 20 years ago feels almost like yesterday to me. Truth. Savor every moment

 

[Rons Wolfe]

To quote a comment my husband once made to me, he said "My package is tied so close to my heart". He equated a sexual relationship with love and emotional intimacy, he wasn't into casual sex even when he wasn't dating any one person. It's something I completely understood and agreed with, I'm also a strict serial monogamist. Or at least I was, I can't imagine ever wanting another man now that he's gone. It's not just about having sex with someone else, it's the emotional intimacy that making love was a part of that neither of us could fathom sharing with anyone else.

 

[Demon]

Hi,

Of course it is an individual decision. However, to base ones whole marriage on an act of infidelity seems as if this one part of the marriage is more significant than any other part. If I feel cherished, loved and emotionally secure and satisfied, that would mean more than the infidelity. But, of course you may believe what you wish. I know you mean well.

Annette

I understand what you mean, but for myself I don't think I would feel cherished, loved and emotionally secure and satisfied if I couldn't trust him. And that's what the infidelity does - destroys trust.

 

[Elizabeth35]

My question to those who feel that one act of infidelity does not compromise a good marriage:

Have you been cheated on, or have you cheated? I recognize that you probably can't answer that on a public forum.

My point being, until you have been in those shoes and experienced that betrayal---do you really feel you can make that judgement?

 

[whitewave]

While I don’t necessarily believe humans were meant to be with one person for their entire life, I do expect monogamy in my marriage. I do believe cheating can be more than sexual acts.

To me, fidelity encompasses all of these issues and we both married expecting fidelity and monogamy.

Now, if someone else has different goals and agreements in their marriage— more power to them and none of my business…