How important is sexual fidelity to you?

[Jambalaya]

Bouncing off another thread about whether to inform someone that their partner is cheating...

If your marriage was happy, would you want to know, or would you choose not to know? I have a different view on this from when I was younger.

If my marriage was a really good one, where I felt loved and cared-for, and I was not lacking attention - in other words, if the cheating hadn't affected my marital quality in any way - I think I'd rather remain in blissful ignorance as long as it was NEVER revealed to me. He would need to take it to his grave.

On the other hand, if the marriage wasn't that good, and he was being moody and unhappy at home, and leaving evidence around without any thought for me, I'd definitely rather have confirmation and be on my way.

In the book "This Is How Your Marriage Ends," the author says that because he wasn't committing what he called "Major Marriage Crimes" such as infidelity, the things he did that hurt his wife weren't such a big deal to him. But in the article linked at the end of this post, it says that there are many ways to betray a spouse that have nothing to do with cheating, and indeed I experienced this in my marriage. He betrayed our vows in every way possible without cheating. The hostility, the silent treatment that went on for days or weeks, the walkings-out, the endless judgement about my weight....creating a home like this is worse, to me, than a scenario where a relationship is great but he has some occasional fun on the side. The experience of a horrendous but sexually faithful marriage taught me that what counts is the day-to-day, minute-by-minute quality of the relationship.

As the article says:

"Loyalty isn’t something we demonstrate with our genitals alone."
"Is it OK to put up with years of non-sexual betrayal as long as your spouse isn’t cheating?"
"Does one discovery topple an entire relationship, an entire history?"

However, I've never been in the position of having a happy marriage shattered by infidelity, so maybe I'd feel differently if it ever happened to me.

But the older I get (pushing fifty, most family dead as I'm the youngest), the more it just seems crazy to throw away something that's good in so very many ways, and so much history, over something carnal. Some people really can and do separate sexual contact from everything else.

Also as I get older, the more I feel that I don't want my security and my mental health to be dependent on what someone else chooses to do with their body, you know? We cannot control what others do, and if we hang our whole lives on someone else's sexual fidelity, aren't we setting ourselves up for pain and heartbreak, and giving all control over our wellbeing to someone else and their potential weakness? I don't want to live like that. My attitude to fidelity now is that I don't care as long as I don't EVER know about it.

Does sexual fidelity matter the most? | The New I Do

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I'm a hopeless romantic who has watched way too many Chinese series! I want epic love. It has to be epic love or it's worthless to me!

 

[missy]

It is critical to me. But not sufficient.
These are the necessary components for me for a healthy loving and supportive marriage and I would never accept less.

1. TRUST
2. COMMUINCATION
3. SEXUAL and EMOTIONAL FIDELITY/COMMITMENT
4. SENSE OF HUMOR
5. COMPASSION
6. RESILIENCE
7. RESPECT
8. AFFECTION

And my DH has that to the max. I never take it for granted nor do I take him for granted. He is truly my best friend, my soul mate, my romantic partner and the love of my life. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I do not know how I got to be so lucky having him as my life partner and B'shert.

 

[Jambalaya]

@missy and @mellowyellowgirl - I used to feel the same as you both. But I feel that life, and experiencing its realities, has knocked it all out of me. It seems to me that it's not common to have a great marriage lasting for the rest of one's life. It does scare me to think of being in love and have them cheat on me, but then I get to thinking that I'm tired of basing my peace of mind on what someone else chooses to do with their genitals, you know?

 

[Ally T]

What @missy says. All of it.

I am sorry you have had a rough time of things & a marriage like that would certainly put things into crystal clear perspective.

Mr T is the whole package for me. There are definitely times where we lock horns or he bugs me to the point I will stomp off, but he defuses me quickly. We are a team in every way. We have been tested mentally & emotionally (but not sexually) over the years & survived. We know we are better together than we are apart & the thought of NOT being together is terrifying to me. Neither of us ever take that for granted however & we work hard at constantly communicating & making nice gestures.

Like every couple out there who have been together forever, there are brief sexual dry spells for whatever reason (and any couple who say otherwise are lying) especially when busy careers or children are added to the mix & you are away from home, tired, grumpy, stressed or have a toddler in your bed. But that is never an excuse to physically look elsewhere. We both have male & female friends, but we have also openly discussed that sexual cheating would be a total deal breaker for either of us. Neither of us would take the other back into our bed if there had been sex with someone else.

 

[Jambalaya]

@Ally T @missy I really love to hear your stories of happy, positive marriages that have stood the test of time and are the real deal. It makes me happy to read that it does work out for some people. Warms my heart to hear about it and gives me hope, and provides a healthy perspective that just because it hasn't happened for me, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I read what you have to say about your marriages, I feel as if I'm reading an old-fashioned comforting storybook where sometimes things DO work out!

I think, at nearly fifty, I've given up hope of getting everything in one person. I've had two serious relationships in my life, the first one lasting 17 years (the bad marriage) and ultimately they both made me so miserable that I'm just done with letting another person, and whatever stupid choices they might decide to make, have such control over my peace of mind.

 

[LorettaB]

Married for 40 years this next November and we've been through good times and bad times but we've always been there for each other. Someone told me one time, "He talks about you like you're the best thing since a Tootsie Roll!" I never quite figured that out but.....it was meant as a huge compliment! To me this photo is what "happy" looks like. Richard and me, sitting in front of our son's and daughter-in-law's fireplace and she takes my phone and gets this picture. No posing, just looking at the camera and smiles. Both of us will turn 60 years old this year and we're still crazy about each other and absolute best friends. It's not all sugar and sunshine every single day. I can aggravate him and he knows where alllll my buttons are (LOL!) but we've always said, in the end, it's just us....being us.

 

[Jambalaya]

@LorettaB That's lovely!

 

[Jambalaya]

I hope all of y'all in really good marriages know how lucky you are!!

 

[LorettaB]

@Ally T @missy I really love to hear your stories of happy, positive marriages that have stood the test of time and are the real deal. It makes me happy to read that it does work out for some people. Warms my heart to hear about it and gives me hope, and provides a healthy perspective that just because it hasn't happened for me, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I read what you have to say about your marriages, I feel as if I'm reading an old-fashioned comforting storybook where sometimes things DO work out!

I think, at nearly fifty, I've given up hope of getting everything in one person. I've had two serious relationships in my life, the first one lasting 17 years (the bad marriage) and ultimately they both made me so miserable that I'm just done with letting another person, and whatever stupid choices they might decide to make, have such control over my peace of mind.

Please don't ever give up! If it's meant to be, it will be. I think one good guideline is that a person should always ask themselves the question: Would he/she, could he/she be my best friend? If the answer to that question is yes, then you've got a fine start right there, in and of itself.

 

[Jambalaya]

@LorettaB I'm tired of chasing something that seems so out of reach. It seems much more sensible to focus on things that I have more of a chance of getting! (Like work success or fun times with friends.) The divorce rate for people who have been married 15 years is 43%. I'm not sure if that's first marriages or all marriages.

I just feel as if the idea of finding love has too much power over people - well, me anyway. It holds me hostage to the idea that my life isn't the best it could be until I have this thing that's so elusive. I'm fed up with being beholden to something that's so hard to find. Yes, I'm sure my life would be better if I had a great marriage, but it would also be better if I had millions of dollars!

I'm turned off the idea of serious committed relationships to such an extent that they don't even seem interesting to me anymore. When I think of having a serious committed relationship, I feel the way I would if someone asked me to watch a documentary about engines. This is a HUGE departure for me because I was SUCH a romantic when I was a bit younger. When I got married, I was fiercely loyal. Sadly, he turned out to have severe mental-health issues that he eventually took out on me. (We did have a good friendship outside of those times.) And we had the requisite in-law issues, too, on both sides. Too many marriages/committed relationships seem to involve too much strain, and as I get older, I don't feel that my health is able to cope with it.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

You said that you hope those of us in good marriages realize how lucky we are.

I can only speak for myself, but for us it has been about a lot of hard work and getting over our individual traumas from childhood. Man, I think back to the early years in our marriage and we were just a mess, ignorance kept us blissful though. Do I feel lucky to be married 17 years and have two great kids…yes, but all of that is the result of hard work and purposeful choices, not really about luck. The whole concept of luck is problematic because it takes power away from individuals, if you believe you are unlucky then you see closed doors instead of open windows. It’s a very limiting way of thinking about marriage but also about life in general.

Now that we have a good solid marriage and own our individual traumas that we continuously work on, yes, I would want to know if he was unfaithful. Knowing gives me information to make an informed decision about my life.

 

[MMtwo]

I hope all of y'all in really good marriages know how lucky you are!!

Having been through some PTSD marriages and absolutely ready to give up on all mankind, I thank the stars every day for my husband. He is far from perfect (as am I), but he shows up every day with a loving heart and he tries. Fidelity is important to me because it is his word to me and promise to grow old forsaking others. I don't trust easily, and as a matter of fact, it took time for me to trust him. He is always a man of his word.

I understand nature, hormones and the attraction of the hunt. Hubby is a pilot and wears a sexy uniform every day. People are human, after all, but in my romantic view, there is a promise to get through life together through thick and thin. He is always free to go and have the thrill of another lady, but he doesn't get his cake too.

I can live without him if I must, but I prefer his companionship and friendship. He really is my best friend. I mean, I told him what I weigh.

Oh, and we married with him at 43 (his first) and me 51. We've been married almost 7 years now. Less stress.

 

[missy]

You said that you hope those of us in good marriages realize how lucky we are.

I can only speak for myself, but for us it has been about a lot of hard work and getting over our individual traumas from childhood. Man, I think back to the early years in our marriage and we were just a mess, ignorance kept us blissful though. Do I feel lucky to be married 17 years and have two great kids…yes, but all of that is the result of hard work and purposeful choices, not really about luck. The whole concept of luck is problematic because it takes power away from individuals, if you believe you are unlucky then you see closed doors instead of open windows. It’s a very limiting way of thinking about marriage but also about life in general.

Now that we have a good solid marriage and own our individual traumas that we continuously work on, yes, I would want to know if he was unfaithful. Knowing gives me information to make an informed decision about my life.

I agree with this. I was planning on never marrying. But then I met Greg. He wasn’t the first to propose but he was the first I knew i wanted to spend the rest of my life with though at the time I wasn’t 100% confident. I don’t think you can ever know for sure. But we maximized our chances of being in a successful marriage. I married someone who is kind, compassionate, smart and not afraid to do the work. Someone who gets me. And who I get. We chose wisely. But still we are lucky because we found each other. So yes I feel super lucky too.

 

[missy]

@Ally T @missy I really love to hear your stories of happy, positive marriages that have stood the test of time and are the real deal. It makes me happy to read that it does work out for some people. Warms my heart to hear about it and gives me hope, and provides a healthy perspective that just because it hasn't happened for me, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I read what you have to say about your marriages, I feel as if I'm reading an old-fashioned comforting storybook where sometimes things DO work out!

I think, at nearly fifty, I've given up hope of getting everything in one person. I've had two serious relationships in my life, the first one lasting 17 years (the bad marriage) and ultimately they both made me so miserable that I'm just done with letting another person, and whatever stupid choices they might decide to make, have such control over my peace of mind.

I’m on the go so cannot respond properly but just wanted to say you are never too old for finding true love and it is never too late. I’ll be back with more thoughts when I have time.

 

[missy]

What @missy says. All of it.

I am sorry you have had a rough time of things & a marriage like that would certainly put things into crystal clear perspective.

Mr T is the whole package for me. There are definitely times where we lock horns or he bugs me to the point I will stomp off, but he defuses me quickly. We are a team in every way. We have been tested mentally & emotionally (but not sexually) over the years & survived. We know we are better together than we are apart & the thought of NOT being together is terrifying to me. Neither of us ever take that for granted however & we work hard at constantly communicating & making nice gestures.

Like every couple out there who have been together forever, there are brief sexual dry spells for whatever reason (and any couple who say otherwise are lying) especially when busy careers or children are added to the mix & you are away from home, tired, grumpy, stressed or have a toddler in your bed. But that is never an excuse to physically look elsewhere. We both have male & female friends, but we have also openly discussed that sexual cheating would be a total deal breaker for either of us. Neither of us would take the other back into our bed if there had been sex with someone else.

Yes. This completely. We are a team. And each other’s soft place to fall when life is tough. I’m so grateful we’re together. And yes it isn’t always a love affair and it isn’t always perfect. But damn, it’s close.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@missy, I totally get your perspective.

My DH and I came from just very unfortunate circumstances. As an example, I was told by my father that I wouldn’t mean anything to anyone until I got married. So, that was probably the catalyst that drove me to find “the guy” but I unfortunately brought all the baggage along too.

I guess I feel lucky that we managed to overcome all of that, it would have been a lot easier to quit but we both chose to do the work.

 

[missy]

@missy, I totally get your perspective.

My DH and I came from just very unfortunate circumstances. As an example, I was told by my father that I wouldn’t mean anything to anyone until I got married. So, that was probably the catalyst that drove me to find “the guy” but I unfortunately brought all the baggage along too.

I guess I feel lucky that we managed to overcome all of that, it would have been a lot easier to quit but we both chose to do the work.

Good for you! That makes it all the more sweeter imo. And I’m sorry you went through that with your dad. Unacceptable
You are a strong woman. I said it before and I’ll say it again. Because it’s true

 

[MamaBee]

Having been through some PTSD marriages and absolutely ready to give up on all mankind, I thank the stars every day for my husband. He is far from perfect (as am I), but he shows up every day with a loving heart and he tries. Fidelity is important to me because it is his word to me and promise to grow old forsaking others. I don't trust easily, and as a matter of fact, it took time for me to trust him. He is always a man of his word.

I understand nature, hormones and the attraction of the hunt. Hubby is a pilot and wears a sexy uniform every day. People are human, after all, but in my romantic view, there is a promise to get through life together through thick and thin. He is always free to go and have the thrill of another lady, but he doesn't get his cake too.

I can live without him if I must, but I prefer his companionship and friendship. He really is my best friend. I mean, I told him what I weigh.

Oh, and we married at him 43 (his first) and me 51. We've been married almost 7 years now. Less stress.

Telling him what you weight is definitely love! Haha

 

[kenny]

It is critical to me. But not sufficient.
These are the necessary components for me for a healthy loving and supportive marriage and I would never accept less.

1. TRUST
2. COMMUINCATION
3. SEXUAL and EMOTIONAL FIDELITY/COMMITMENT
4. SENSE OF HUMOR
5. COMPASSION
6. RESILIENCE
7. RESPECT
8. AFFECTION

And my DH has that to the max. I never take it for granted nor do I take him for granted. He is truly my best friend, my soul mate, my romantic partner and the love of my life. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I do not know how I got to be so lucky having him as my life partner and B'shert.

+1

 

[LorettaB]

You said that you hope those of us in good marriages realize how lucky we are.

I can only speak for myself, but for us it has been about a lot of hard work and getting over our individual traumas from childhood. Man, I think back to the early years in our marriage and we were just a mess, ignorance kept us blissful though. Do I feel lucky to be married 17 years and have two great kids…yes, but all of that is the result of hard work and purposeful choices, not really about luck. The whole concept of luck is problematic because it takes power away from individuals, if you believe you are unlucky then you see closed doors instead of open windows. It’s a very limiting way of thinking about marriage but also about life in general.

Now that we have a good solid marriage and own our individual traumas that we continuously work on, yes, I would want to know if he was unfaithful. Knowing gives me information to make an informed decision about my life.

So right.....luck has very little to do with it...maybe even nothing. But yes, you do feel lucky when it works out well, like you've won the lottery. I know that's how I feel and I believe my husband does too. As it is, marriage is a lot of work, a lot of give and take, you have to get used to each other and learn as you go. Mistakes are made and you have to forgive, for both of you. Then, the babies come along so you become parents and still really need to make time for each other. It's not always easy to do that. That was one rule we always had, that when the three boys were grown (and they're grown now) we wouldn't look at each other and say, "What now?"

Four years ago, my husband had to rediscover/reinvent himself and find a new job. He went from a shop foreman to driving a truck and to say he's gone a pretty good bit is an understatement. He put over 165,000 miles on his truck last year. But every time he rolls in, I'm in the yard waiting...me and the three dogs and I (we) always will be waiting. I tell him all the time how much I appreciate him making a good living for us by doing that. He tells me he appreciates me for cooking his meals for him to take and even half gallon jugs of the passion tea lemonade he loves to drink. (The man will not eat truck stop food and mine is wayyy healthier.) There's a long list of what I could say about making a marriage work but being kind to each other is pretty much at the top. Kindness goes a long way.

 

[LorettaB]

Telling him what you weight is definitely love! Haha

For sure!!!!!

 

[Jambalaya]

I worked and worked at my marriage and it wasn't enough. I was immovable in my commitment. I took him to psychiatrists, moved 3,000 miles with him so he could be a part of the country where he was convinced he would be happier, never thought about another man or ever flirted - simply wouldn't have occurred to me - and I would never have left him. But he left me. I know what y'all mean about the concept of luck, but just know that you can put heroic amounts of work in and still end up with egg on your face. So I still think you're lucky. Lucky that the work was enough.

 

[missy]

I think, at nearly fifty, I've given up hope of getting everything in one person. I've had two serious relationships in my life, the first one lasting 17 years (the bad marriage) and ultimately they both made me so miserable that I'm just done with letting another person, and whatever stupid choices they might decide to make, have such control over my peace of mind.

OK so I am back for a minute if that's OK. 100% I would choose to be alone vs being with someone who made me miserable/unhappy and feeling unloved. Nothing is so lonely as being in a bad relationship. IMO. So Kudos to you for knowing yourself and leaving those situations. It is not easy to move on and I hope you give yourself credit for making the best move for you.

My dad always used to say to me when I was a young girl, "missy, life is worth nothing without taking risks" and darn it if he isn't right. He taught me a lot. And I am very lucky to have my parents as my parents. Without them I might not be where I am today. And I have to acknowledge that. I am a very risk adverse individual and I have accepted that about myself. But my dad is right. There are risks worth taking and risks not worth taking. YOu have to figure out which is which. And yes you have to take the chance in getting hurt. And in being open to men/people you might not otherwise have been open to in the past. Nothing is perfect. Nothing. And if I demanded perfection there would not have been a first or second date with Greg. I won't go into details here because they are not important to this thread. Suffice to say I followed my gut despite some things that gave me pause. And I am so glad I did and that I hung in there. I mean the odds were stacked against us. But he didn't give up on me and I wasn't giving up on him. We were not listening to those who were against us. Never let external factors influence your heart and your gut. Never listen to others. Listen to yourself.

Life is to be experienced, to be enjoyed, to be lived. As my wise dad always said, life is not worth living if you don't take calculated risks. When the benefits potentially outweigh those risks. And girl, enjoy the journey. Please. It isn't always about the end result. It's the day to day journey that we have to savor and appreciate. Because it is over all too fast. In an instant. Just like that.

I once read it is the things we choose not to do in life, rather than the things we do, that we regret. Chances not taken. Risks not tried. The road not taken. If we do not try we cannot succeed. Failure is necessary for success. "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." And, IMO, there is nothing greater than true love and there is no greater risk of having one's heart broken. But the amazing thing about our hearts is they don't break forever. And our resilience will get us through. And ultimately we come through adversity stronger, wiser and better. And happier. So much happier

I will add one thing reading your most recent post. It takes two to make the relationship work. It only takes one to ruin it (IMO) but takes two to make it a success.

 

[MMtwo]

I worked and worked at my marriage and it wasn't enough. I was immovable in my commitment. I took him to psychiatrists, moved 3,000 miles with him so he could be a part of the country where he was convinced he would be happier, never thought about another man or ever flirted - simply wouldn't have occurred to me - and I would never have left him. But he left me. I know what y'all mean about the concept of luck, but just know that you can put heroic amounts of work in and still end up with egg on your face. So I still think you're lucky. Lucky that the work was enough.

Sometimes it doesn't come down to work. Sometimes someone is just too broken to be a good mate. Like a teacup with a hole, you can pour yourself in there and end up wearing yourself out with effort, but this person was just unable to reciprocate or recieve the love. Or they want to be elsewhere. Or they think greener grass in their imagination. They take off to the place where they can outrun themselves.

I am so sorry for the pain you are in. I remember gut kicked pain and the hemorrhage of so many feelings, anger, resentment, and the unfairness of loving someone with everything and it just not being enough to make it work.
I think it is partly luck with finding someone willing to give as good as they get. A man who loves to have a relationship and family and have value in that state. Not all men or women do.

Sending a hug!

 

[Matata]

It does scare me to think of being in love and have them cheat on me, but then I get to thinking that I'm tired of basing my peace of mind on what someone else chooses to do with their genitals, you know?

I haven't read all the responses however this snippet caught my attention. Peace of mind is based on trust. If one let's one's partner's genitals roam, one must be absolutely certain that the partner is being responsible with their genitals and not bringing diseases home and not creating another life that would change the dynamics of the relationship.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, @missy.

I've taken risks and honestly, they've nearly killed me! As you might remember from long-ago threads of mine, I have a massive, massive risk of breast cancer, and it's extremely possible that dealing with it will be a problem I face in the next phase of life. So I need to get rid of all the stress I possibly can, which includes relationships. Oh, don't get me wrong. I have male company. I'm currently banging a hot high-school chemistry teacher. But it's just casual, the way I like it.

I know that good relationships that last a long long time can happen, but I think they're uncommon enough that we (as in, society) should stop chasing them so hard. It doesn't feel good to hanker after something so elusive.

P.S. *About the male company, Paddle Hands is also back!!!!!!!

 

[Jambalaya]

@MMtwo - thanks so much! Yeah, it's hard when you give the best you've got and it still doesn't work. My divorce was a long time in coming, I had had a LONG time to adjust to the idea - and I was clear in my mind that this marriage was so unhealthy it had to end, even though divorce contradicted my identity, values, and everything I thought I was. I was also looking forward to being able to date nice, normal people who were not emotionally abusive and endlessly judgmental and critical. So I was very surprised at the depth of sadness I felt when it was done with. I wouldn't have believed how incredibly sad it could be, had I not been through it. I would not wish divorce on my worst enemy. God knows how people feel who are blindsided.

 

[MMtwo]

@MMtwo - thanks so much! Yeah, it's hard when you give the best you've got and it still doesn't work. My divorce was a long time in coming, I had had a LONG time to adjust to the idea - and I was clear in my mind that this marriage was so unhealthy it had to end, even though divorce contradicted my identity, values, and everything I thought I was. I was also looking forward to being able to date nice, normal people who were not emotionally abusive and endlessly judgmental and critical. So I was very surprised at the depth of sadness I felt when it was done with. I wouldn't have believed how incredibly sad it could be, had I not been through it. I would not wish divorce on my worst enemy. God knows how people feel who are blindsided.

For me, it took a year, wavering between absolutely opposite feelings so hard it gave me whiplash. He sucks, but I loved him, maybe I can fix it, but he's broken, but it's my fault, then his fault, damn I am single, I hate being single, this single is a blast. The grieving is phenomenal, and yes, bless you it is grieving because it is a death of something you loved and held dear.

I went to counseling, which helped unpack so much hurt and anger. In my case, a man I adored woke up one morning and looked at me and said "I have no feelings for you" we had just married about 9 months before. I adored him. I came to find out he had multiple relationships on the side and had bipolar disorder he forgot to mention. I was flattened. No fixing the situation. He quickly ran off to another state to be with someone else. Some people are just broken.

So long ago, that raging pain healed to a headshake now. It sucked then, but in time, I healed and met my husband. Who, by the way, was NOT supposed to be more than a fling I gave up meeting men and the dating games and just found a friend. We were just too good together as friends and companions not to stay together. The most natural friendship and companion. Left foot right foot. No drama, just happiness 99.7%, so there is hope!.

 

[Jambalaya]

@MMtwo What a lovely, wonderful story!! That's really cheered me up! Left foot, right foot, no drama - I would definitely be in a relationship like that! How long did you date before marrying?

My ex-husband also had bi-polar. I would not wish marriage to a person with serious mental-health issues on anyone, because they eventually turn round and blame you for all their problems. People who haven't experienced it don't understand. It's not just someone who's a bit blue and prone to feeling a bit down. It can involve SERIOUS hostility toward the caregiver spouse and totally unnecessary chaos in the home, leading to terrible strain on the caregiver. Anyway, like you, divorce wasn't my choice - he left me. No doubt convinced that if only the scourge of all his problems - me and my love and loyalty - were gone, he'd be happy again. There really was no dealing with him. Such a shame and so sad.