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How Important is Color?

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Midway

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So, I had a stone all picked out but then I went out with a friend to see some stones and settings and now I'm all confused again. I had picked out a 1.28 carot, H, SI1, H&A diamond from WF. But one of the jewelers I talked to kept insisting that color was very important and that I didn't want to go lower than a G. When she showed me loose stones upside down on a piece of white paper I could see the difference between an F and an H. I could also see slight yellow in the G as well. What do people here think about the importance of color. I didn't want to go lower than a SI1, but should I consider SI2 to get an F color? Should I just bite the bullet and pay for an F or G, SI1? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

belle

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who graded the diamonds that you saw?
one man's 'g' is anothers' 'j'


also, unless you are going to be wearing the diamond face down on a white paper, there is no point in comparing them that way. the only use for face down comparisons on white paper is for jewelers to sell more colorless diamonds.
 

Skippy123

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That is a horrible thing to say. I bet that person wanted to make more money. H are almost colorless.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 11/30/2006 8:28:59 PM
Author:Midway
So, I had a stone all picked out but then I went out with a friend to see some stones and settings and now I''m all confused again. I had picked out a 1.28 carot, H, SI2, H&A diamond from WF. But one of the jewelers I talked to kept insisting that color was very important and that I didn''t want to go lower than a G. When she showed me loose stones upside down on a piece of white paper I could see the difference between an F and an H. I could also see slight yellow in the G as well. What do people here think about the importance of color. I didn''t want to go lower than a SI1, but should I consider SI2 to get an F color? Should I just bite the bullet and pay for an F or G, SI1? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
don''t listen to that jeweler - they''re most likely trying to convince you to switch your business to them... seriously from a G to an H is NOT a big deal, especially in a well cut stone. Are you going to be setting it upside down on a white piece of paper? no! so who CARES if you can tell the difference on upturned stones LOL!! Of course you wouldn''t be the first to question this, but IMO who *cares* if you see some yellow - big whoop! And "seeing some yellow" really makes it seem like it''s YELLOW and not just barely not as clear LOL
 

diamondseeker2006

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My stone is graded H but scores a G on a colorimeter. But regardless, I really don''t see color when the stone is face down on white paper. I''m betting they weren''t showing you GIA stones.
 

Rhino

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Hi Midway,

Welcome to the forum. I'd concur Rich's statement. There are 2 factors which can greatly help neutralize color within diamond too. Those 2 factors being

a. fluorescence
b. cut quality

When a diamond has what we would consider to be superior optics the reflections of white light within the diamond do an excellent job of neutralizing color within the diamond. A properly grade "I" color, will face up white. Throw cut quality into the mix and the I color will be even more beautiful than the F, G or H. While I do hold color in high esteem it takes a back seat to cut any day.

An amen to all the statements in this thread, particularlyl belle's. Reminds me of that ... "one mans garbage is another man's treasure" although that may not apply here.
DS's H color which graded as G on the colorimeter isn't an everyday occurence but they're found every so often and are nice when they are! :) Rich happens to employ a great technology for color analysis/confirmation too.

All the best,
 

kcoursolle

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Ok...so you can see a tint face down on a piece of paper...so what? In a well-cut round I, you shouldn't be able to see any face up color from the top, maybe a touch of warmth from the side, but nothing as horrible as the jeweler is describing. Just in case you want to see what an I compared to an H looks like from the side and the top in a well-cut stone attached is pics of my waxes for a ring WF is designing for me. The middle stone is an H and the four others are I's. Hope this helps.

EDIT: the black stuff won't be there in the final, it is just to make a mark for the jeweler...

1ersrsthg.jpg
 

starryeyed

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Hi Midway. Belle, your comment about wearing the diamond upside-down on a white piece of paper is pretty FUNNY!!


What if the stone is in a tension setting with the pavilion exposed? Would you see the color, assuming you''re not wearing it on top of white gloves....
 

avlis

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 21, 2006
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237
fo an example of color, i had GoG take this picture for me. The D and G are masters, the H is the stone I am getting.

color comparison.jpg
 

avlis

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now, this is that same H color stone next to an F color face up, in flourescent light

Flurescent Light.JPG
 

avlis

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Date: 11/30/2006 10:49:00 PM
Author: starryeyed
These are great photos avlis! Thanks!


Is the H on the right?
HA, good eye, or did you recognise the picture from my post the other day?

for the record, however, I should note that that H has strong blue flourescence, so that may effect the color slightly.
 

DBM

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the issue of the jewelers altruism regardless, there is a subtle difference between an F and an H even with the compensation of an excellent cut and even though you''re not turning the stone upside down. granted most laymen won''t be able to distinguish between them but it does exist. the picture posted below is not a good example for showing the difference as a particular angle of the glare or reflection on the diamond can make them look similar. in tweezers in fluoro light jewelrs can tell the difference, its subtle but there''s a difference.

whether to choose color over cut is a matter of different opinion. the good thing about high color IMO is that from a distance the natural "whiteness" of the stone seems to shout out almost appearing to a distant person as if it''s something "bright", even on I1 stones. on the other hand when you take a direct look at a high color stone with a poor cut you can see there''s no life.... it can go either way and depending on "how much of this and how much of that"
 

starryeyed

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Avlis, I wish I guessed it because I saw your other post! That would mean I''m not color sensitive and my fiancee-to-be would have a much easier time!
 

Midway

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Thank you so much for all the responses. I completely agree that cut is king, and I have insisted on trying to get best cut possible. The stone I picked out is certified AGS 0 and is a H&A, a cut above. I guess it's not a hearts on fire or eight star diamond but I didn't think the premium was worth it.

What everyone has said makes me feel better about my decision. But I guess I still have some doubts. I didn't quite understand why this jeweler was so insistent on a G or better, because I saw a ring that was an "I" which looked beautiful to me, and I didn't really notice the color in it. And I completely agree that I will not be mounting the rock face down on white paper, but what DBM said makes sense to me too. I want this rock to take her breath away if possible. And I don't want to second-guess my decision or see the yellow in the rock when I look at it.

I guess one question I have is will a platinum setting bring out the yellow in a stone or is it just the opposite. I've heard conflicting things. The jeweler said that if I'm considering a platinum setting, it will gray out the stone and bring out the yellow even more. I've heard from my friends that platinum will actually make a stone look whiter. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, but does anyone have thoughts on what the setting will do to the perceived color. I'm getting a platinum setting.

Jonathan, I totally hear what you are saying and I agree that cut and fluorescence are the two factors that will neutralize color. But does setting make a difference too?

DBM: You said in tweezers and with fluorescent light a jeweler will be able to tell the difference between an F and an H. I agree because that's how I saw the stones, in tweezers (don't know if the light was fluorescent.) And I was able to see a slight difference. Not when I looked down on the stone from a distance because the white light reflected off it too much and all I could see were sparkles. But when I held it a bit closer and turned the stone in the tweezers I noticed a bit more yellow light bouncing off it. I guess that could have come from the jeweler's gold jewelry but who knows. I wonder though, will I be able to notice the difference when the stones are set? And I guess all things being equal, if you've tried to get an excellent/ideal cut, polish, symmetry, is the difference between a G and H enough to make you start your search all over again? Because I'm willing to do that to get the right stone.

Like I said, I'm very confused right now. The "I" that I saw mounted looked beautiful and it made me think maybe I was foolish for insisting on H over I. Am I being too silly for letting this self-interested jeweler mess with my head like this? Help!
 

anacgarcia

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Oct 4, 2006
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jewelry lights DO affect

this is my G diamond under jewelry lights



and this is it under normal lights

 

Midway

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Thanks Ana. Anyone else have any opinions on whether settings or jewelry store lights can effect color?
 

DBM

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just for the record i don''t mean to say that you should go with the G.
H and I colors can be beautiful and sufficient often. my point was only in arguing the contention that a. there is no difference between an F and an H with ideal cut b.you only see the difference when upside down. best of luck
 

DBM

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DBM: You said in tweezers and with fluorescent light a jeweler will be able to tell the difference between an F and an H. I agree because that''s how I saw the stones, in tweezers (don''t know if the light was fluorescent.) And I was able to see a slight difference. Not when I looked down on the stone from a distance because the white light reflected off it too much and all I could see were sparkles. But when I held it a bit closer and turned the stone in the tweezers I noticed a bit more yellow light bouncing off it. I guess that could have come from the jeweler''s gold jewelry but who knows. I wonder though, will I be able to notice the difference when the stones are set? And I guess all things being equal, if you''ve tried to get an excellent/ideal cut, polish, symmetry, is the difference between a G and H enough to make you start your search all over again? Because I''m willing to do that to get the right stone.
just saw this piece now.... the average person won''t be able to tell the difference once they''re set and even a jeweler won''t be able to accurately in any incandescent light
 

winternight

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 12, 2006
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Maybe you should compare some set stones? Also some people are more sensitive to color, I can see a big difference between a set G stone and a set I stone and this was at Tiffany''s. Although the saleslady there was surprised that I could see such a big difference and pick out the I colored stone without her telling me which one it was. This does seem to vary from person to person though.

I also think if you''re getting other stones in the setting you may want to match them more closely in color, for instance if you''re getting a F/G diamond band it may bring out a yellow undertone in the I.
 

Rhino

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Good point Winternight. Each person's sensitivity to color varies from person to person. Whenever I look at diamonds I tend to use an extremely critical eye and I have to remind myself how the average layman looks/perceives to remind myself of the more general view of things.



How are ya Midway.



In answer to your questions and some of the other points brought up here.



Anagarcia shows an excellent example of how lighting can change the perception of how we view color in diamonds. In spot lighting (typically found in jewelry stores) it can make the body of the stone appear darker which people generally interpret as "yellower". Even in her G color. We also have this documented in our video on the subject. I'd say you'll see similar effects even in a D color in that lighting. However ambient or diffuse daylight will really show the true color differences.



In spite of what you've heard about the settings part Midway, platinum does tend to bring out the contrast in tinted stones. Ie you can see the yellow more. Not less. However in stones with superior optics you'd only catch a glimpse of this from the profile.



In the profile view, and set in platinum if you observe a G-H-I in color you may note it faintly. If when viewing from the profile in platinum and you do not want to see even the slightest hint of color then D, E, F would be the recommendation.



Attached is a picture I just took of 2 stones we have here that demonstrate this. One is an F laid in a platinum setting alongside another one we have here that is an I color which actually measures as H on the colorimeter. The profile view against flat white is the most criticall way anyone will ever see the color. Face up the difference is imperceptible in this lighting. If you're ok with that then you're ok with H-I Midway. Bear in mind just most everyone who views it will be viewing it in the face up view.



Hope that helps.



colorprofiles.jpg
 

Julian

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Sep 5, 2004
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724
It depends on the diamond, too. Like others said, the cut really does make a difference. However, I was in Cartier last month and saw a 2.8 carat G stone cut in their sunburst style and it definitely had that ginger ale tint. I was so confused because the cut was just spectacular and the zillions of facets were just amazing but the stone definitely stood out against the entire case. And I usually can only detect a sliiiiiiight difference between Gs and Fs, for example. But this one was vast. So I''m chalking it up to that stone in particular.

I also think it had to have been the characteristics of that particular stone, because it wasn''t leaning toward yellow but had a really (surprisingly) gorgeous soft brownish tint. Unique. I fell in LOVE with that ring! It had colorless baguettes which created a lovely contrast. It''s very strange but in jeweler''s lighting, I can definitely see the tint in larger stones. The larger you go, the more you see color for sure. If it doesn''t bother you, I say go for it! They have a beauty to themselves and the value is tremendous.
 

kcoursolle

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Another thing to remember is the environment the diamond is in. My f diamond often takes up the color of the walls or the shirt I am wearing. It will look slightly yellow in my living room with the bright yellow walls! However, this will happen in a D diamond or in a J diamond. It''s nothing to worry about, but it is something to remember if every now and then your diamond looks a little tinted...it could just be the environment.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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More good points Julian and kcoursolle.


1. The color of the walls/environment you''re examining the stone in.
2. The size of the diamond counts too. Color will be more apparent in a 2.8xct stone than say a 1ct size. Ie. the coke bottle effect
3. I''d also point out that fancy shapes tend to reveal more color than rounds particularly at the tips.

Peace,
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/1/2006 12:13:19 PM
Author: Rhino

Attached is a picture I just took of 2 stones we have here that demonstrate this. One is an F laid in a platinum setting alongside another one we have here that is an I color which actually measures as H on the colorimeter. The profile view against flat white is the most criticall way anyone will ever see the color. Face up the difference is imperceptible in this lighting. If you''re ok with that then you''re ok with H-I Midway. Bear in mind just most everyone who views it will be viewing it in the face up view.

First off I see color more in the face up view but two other things... one how often will the stone be held up to a white background and how often will the stone be held up to an F side by side?
 
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