How fussy are you about cuts in CS?

[mellowyellowgirl]

Saw a few posts here and there about precision cuts in CS which got me curious about everyone’s thoughts or preferences for cuts when buying CS.

Haha my bar is super low. As long as it has no window and isn’t a trillion I’m good with it. I will absolutely NOT tolerate a window though. I’m also not fond of super long stones but it’s not a definite deal breaker. I’ve found that given me penchant for larger stones, I often have no no say or choice in cuts and just celebrate when a stone I want pops up and has no window.

I probably would still have bought Chansey if she was a trillion……maybe….. likely….. could set her in a flower setting of some type I guess.

 

[Autumn in New England]

It's a distant third for me... color is king, then clarity, then cut, then size. But really, it's the right combination of those 4 aspects that matters. I try to avoid windows whenever possible, but I do have a couple of gems with very small ones. A comparative few of my stones are precision. As the material gets rarer, it becomes more difficult to make all 4 clocks chime at the same time. With diamonds, cut is definitely much higher in my decision-making tier!

 

[Rfisher]

Each vendor might have their own definition of what precision cut means.

I’m not pulled much by that designation, in a listing.
The ‘precision recuts’ threads and most of the time what it does to color perception of a decently native cut backs that up. IMO of course.
I’m sorry. What’s the correct term to use instead of native? I can’t remember.

‘Celebrating when a stone pops up’ is about it in a nutshell IMO, when it’s pleasing to the eye.
I have windowed stones. I don’t like all windowed stones.
I have an off kilter pavilion, I don’t like all off kilter pavilions.
I have stones with extinction, I don’t like all examples of extinction.


If the stone has an angular outline - that’s fine, it’s what is designed. If a rounded outline of an oval or cushion is commissioned, and it ends up an angular footprint shape - that’s a sad disappointing dealbreaker for me.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I’m terrible but I think my criteria is: size, colour, clarity and then cut.

Would not buy the best colour if it was too small for me.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Color is first to me; no surprise there. I’m not crazy about obvious windows. I have a little bit of a different POV on CS and cut than most. Cuts can be changed, and I have recut a number of stones that were cut to optimize weight. I am a big fan of brilliance—that is what draws me in to a stone, and mesmerizes me. I do not like precision cuts at all, and have not and never will buy one. I do like wonky cuts, that seem like they are organic, following the crystal structure of the rough, not a calibrated size.

Sorry this is a hodgepodge of random thoughts, but am on my first cup of coffee after several arduous garden days.

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

I’m terrible but I think my criteria is: size, colour, clarity and then cut.

Would not buy the best colour if it was too small for me.

I so agree. Currently there are some AMAZING colored stones available on LT, but I know myself well enough to know that I will be still looking for larger "one day" so I wait.

Windows are a deal breaker for me, though I own a few stones with one that I purchased before knowing better. I can't say I regret it though because those purchases happened at the right time ( when I could get a 5 ct tsavorite affordably as well as lighter Paraibas at 3 cts). Carefully planned out settings help. But because my gem budget isn't bottomless, something typically has to give. Luckily for me I tend to gravitate to colors other than trade ideal, and don't mind à native cut. I look at them as unique pieces of art, so perfection isn't needed.

 

[dk168]

I have very few CSs that are not precision cut; even the majority of my cheapo learner stones from Jeff Davies were precision cut as I had learnt quite early through PS to avoid windows.

The only significant non-precision cut CS that I had bought myself was the Mahenge Spinel from Yvonne as I fell for its colour first and foremost as seen in the photo of her listing, and there was no evidence of a window.

DK

 

[toomuchB]

I haven't read the previous responses as to not have them affect the below.

I am torn when it comes to cut. I'm still figuring it out.

I feel like I have a minimum bar of what I can accept, but this is abstract and not well defined, more of an intuition, case by case.

When it comes to precision cuts - sometimes I like them, sometimes I really dislike the 'clinical' look they have. Like a cookie cutter.

Material in question certainly makes a difference too. Cut is lower on the totem pole than the other C's generally.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

More fussy than I would be if it weren’t for PS.

Seriously though, the main cut dealbreaker is windows. I do own a pretty dark grey spinel with a horrific window that shows up in photos but that I can’t see with my own eyes. Love that ring.

I am a big fan of brilliance—that is what draws me in to a stone, and mesmerizes me.

Same and it’s why I have a hard time spending money on colored gemstones versus diamonds. I love dark spinel colors, even with a hint of grey, so that will probably be a staple. Sphene is beautiful but the 70‘s style greens and oranges are not to my taste, plus there’s the softness issue. I have a few near-colorless. Likewise demantoid green is not a favorite; I wish the blue-green tourmalines sparkled as much.

(You all have also turned me into such a jadeite quality snob that I can’t afford any of it; and a somewhat heat snob, which I need to get over. Weirdly I have no problem with treated synthetic colored diamonds or well-manufactured moissanite so it is hard for me to spend $$,$$$ on less sparkly natural gems.)

 

[Niel]

I would never require a precision cut gemstone. If everything else was equal maybe if pick one over a native cut but there are so many more things to be a snob about vs cut.
I've owned a few stones so poorly cut I've had them touched up, but even then I'd rather find a compromise between keeping the color and size vs closing a window.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I so agree. Currently there are some AMAZING colored stones available on LT, but I know myself well enough to know that I will be still looking for larger "one day" so I wait.

This was me and the search for a big pink. So many times I was like “Do I throw in the towel at 5 carats? Will this be as good as it gets?”

Fortunately other aspects of the stones ultimately swayed my decision but carat and dimensions are the first thing I process before going further to analyse colour (assuming the colour isn’t unpleasant at first glance).

 

[toomuchB]

More fussy than I would be if it weren’t for PS.

Seriously though, the main cut dealbreaker is windows. I do own a pretty dark grey spinel with a horrific window that shows up in photos but that I can’t see with my own eyes. Love that ring.



Same and it’s why I have a hard time spending money on colored gemstones versus diamonds. I love dark spinel colors, even with a hint of grey, so that will probably be a staple. Sphene is beautiful but the 70‘s style greens and oranges are not to my taste, plus there’s the softness issue. I have a few near-colorless. Likewise demantoid green is not a favorite; I wish the blue-green tourmalines sparkled as much.

(You all have also turned me into such a jadeite quality snob that I can’t afford any of it; and a somewhat heat snob, which I need to get over. Weirdly I have no problem with treated synthetic colored diamonds or well-manufactured moissanite so it is hard for me to spend $$,$$$ on less sparkly natural gems.)

Re: brilliance, you probably already know but zircon is a great option, fairly hard, not expensive, can easily commission a precision cut at basically any size = amazing sparkle. And beautiful blue too.
But being doubly refractive may be bothersome to some. I think cutters can minimize this effect.

 

[Bron357]

I like size and colour. I love vivid. I loathe dark.
Big is great because I have meaty fingers and coverage is required.
Cut doesn’t worry me at all nor windows. Pancake Ruby is basically 80% window but she’s easy to forgive because she’s vivid and beautiful.
I think with pastel tone gems cut is more important because they need some light reflection to support the lighter hue.

 

[Mreader]

Color is first to me; no surprise there. I’m not crazy about obvious windows. I have a little bit of a different POV on CS and cut than most. Cuts can be changed, and I have recut a number of stones that were cut to optimize weight. I am a big fan of brilliance—that is what draws me in to a stone, and mesmerizes me. I do not like precision cuts at all, and have not and never will buy one. I do like wonky cuts, that seem like they are organic, following the crystal structure of the rough, not a calibrated size.

Sorry this is a hodgepodge of random thoughts, but am on my first cup of coffee after several arduous garden days.

I’m just curious, what is it about Precision cuts that you dislike? Especially if you like brilliance?
I thought precisions aided in brilliance, but I’m not very versed in the colored stone world

 

[PrecisionGem]

This is an interesting thread. Could be I'm missing out on a whole different group of customers, and i'm thinking I may cut a few stones "non precision" to see how they go over.
Instead of 60,000 or 100,000 grit polish, I'll use 8000 grit, cut them with some extra weight in the belly, maybe over cut a few facets, and under cut some. Try to get the culet off center a bit, but avoid cutting too shallow so as to window the stone.
This would speed up the cutting, and if these go over well it could be a good thing. Faster and more weight would = more $/ hour.
Maybe do tourmaline or amethyst to start. Poor cutting shows up more in lower refractive index material. When you cut higher refractive index such as zircon, CZ or diamonds, the higher refractive index a lot more latitude with the angles used, and precise cutter isn't that important.

 

[Rfisher]

Could be I'm missing out on a whole different group of customers, and i'm thinking I may cut a few stones "non precision" to see how they go over.

I think this would be super cool to see.

If someone were to cut one something similar to like this (no need to focus on slightly off kilter pavilion though - center it.
And then cut one of same footprint shape and size in your choice designer precision facet pattern.


- you bring up good points even with the sarcasm. The polish aspect. Of only using 8000 grit. I’d be curious if any of the above posters that had acceptance of non precision cut gems would actually be talking about an 8000 grit done stone.
My guess is no.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

This is an interesting thread. Could be I'm missing out on a whole different group of customers, and i'm thinking I may cut a few stones "non precision" to see how they go over.
Instead of 60,000 or 100,000 grit polish, I'll use 8000 grit, cut them with some extra weight in the belly, maybe over cut a few facets, and under cut some. Try to get the culet off center a bit, but avoid cutting too shallow so as to window the stone.
This would speed up the cutting, and if these go over well it could be a good thing. Faster and more weight would = more $/ hour.
Maybe do tourmaline or amethyst to start. Poor cutting shows up more in lower refractive index material. When you cut higher refractive index such as zircon, CZ or diamonds, the higher refractive index a lot more latitude with the angles used, and precise cutter isn't that important.

This is an example of what I do not care for in a precision cut. I like your cuts, and have bought stones from you. Perhaps what I should have said was this modern type of precision cut, or I am using the wrong terminology. I apologize if I offended you.

 

[toomuchB]

When it comes to precision cuts - sometimes I like them, sometimes I really dislike the 'clinical' look they have. Like a cookie cutter.

Material in question certainly makes a difference too.

I would like to expand on this a little.
I've never have thought of precision cuts as clinical and cookie cutter until precision cut synthetics started flooding the market, reducing how special the look is.

There are loads of dealers like this:

https://www.etsy.com/shop/ClaraPepperFacets

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There is almost something 'natural-affirming' in an excellent but not precision cut. I can still absolutely love or prefer a precision cut. I'm just reflecting.

 

[Saphir]

What is CS?
I started collecting for 8 or 9 month. My first sapphire was 1,82ct very light, slighty violetish blue from Madagascar with an deep of only 3mm dont know the correct measurents and has a large window. Only the outside facetts has brillance. I posted the stone in a forum and i learned from the reaction for the future.
The cut is to me the most important factor of a value from a facetted gemstone, after than came clarity and than the color or origin.
An precision cut must have to me, minimum 85-90%+ of the stone must be have nearly perfect meetpoints, overall excellent polish and a very good minimum vs but eye clean clearity. If the clarity is to silky or si or included than an normal cut or classic precision cut with bigger facetts and round corners i would prefer. Is the stone eye clean and not to dark or silky i prefer modern precision cut oval, round, fantasy, emerald with round corners or very much and small facetts.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I’m just curious, what is it about Precision cuts that you dislike? Especially if you like brilliance?
I thought precisions aided in brilliance, but I’m not very versed in the colored stone world

Here is a definition of brilliance in colored stones from National Gemstone:

Average Brilliancy​

Brilliancy is the amount of flash the gem returns to your eyes. Most diamonds are 100% brilliant. Brilliancy in the sample is 80%. An average brilliancy of 50% means half of the stone returns flash.

I like the lighter tone flashes that brighten a saturated stone, which come from an excellent cut. I do not care for the modern cut which has more light flashes than base color. I suppose there is a ratio that I look for, and it is a criteria in judging colored stones.

Below is a description of brilliance from AGL's website, and seems to be about windows.



Perhaps I should have said I do not like fantasy cuts?

My stones is not perfectly cut, but I love the flashes.

And here is a precision one I bought

that I love:

Hope this helps explain my not technical preferences, and I apologize again for any offense from using the wrong terms.

 

[PrecisionGem]

- you bring up good points even with the sarcasm. The polish aspect. Of only using 8000 grit. I’d be curious if any of the above posters that had acceptance of non precision cut gems would actually be talking about an 8000 grit done stone.
My guess is no.

I actually wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Especially sapphires, a lot of commercial cut stones are polished with 8000 grit diamond. This way you can go from cut to polish in one step, and 8000 leaves a pretty good finish, but one that you can see the polish lines with. Most "precision cutters" would pre polish with either 3000 or 8000 diamond, then finish polish with 50,000 or 100,000 diamond. Some use 14,000 as it's faster.

My wife shares your taste on the concave cut stones. She won't even look at them after I cut them. I like them, but they are a lot more work than flat faceted stones. It takes a lot more time to cut one.

 

[Avondale]

For me there's this line that divides it, a certain level of "this cut is sufficiently good". Above the divide I'm not fussy at all. If the stone looks good, it's symmetrical, it isn't windowed, it isn't black and dead - I'm good. I'm not going to insist on a precision cut, or a designer cut, or anything of the sort.

Most of my stones are native cuts of varying qualities, and those I have selected myself in the past years (queue side eye to my husband's choice in emerald from 6 years ago) sit comfortably above the divide. I own one precision cut by Gene and it's one of the prettiest stones I have. But many native cuts look so well, too.

If we're below the divide, however, I become extremely fussy. Every flaw and drawback is reason to pronounce the stone all but worthless. And I definitely sit in the "hate windows with a fiery passion" camp (unless they're small and can be hidden with the proper setting).

And since precision cuts are being discussed, I'd like to chime in that just because a stone is precision cut it doesn't mean it is a good cut. I have been shown some precision cuts that look absolutely phenomenal in this one particular specific perfect lighting environment, and then are total duds in every other light. What's the point of a precision cut if this is going to be the result?

I also dislike the designs where the focus is on contrast instead of colour. Contrast is good for diamonds and sparkle, but in coloured stones I don't care for it. What I prefer is a bright, open, vivid colour, and a cut that allows it to shine.

 

[toomuchB]

What is CS?
I started collecting for 8 or 9 month. My first sapphire was 1,82ct very light, slighty violetish blue from Madagascar with an deep of only 3mm dont know the correct measurents and has a large window. Only the outside facetts has brillance. I posted the stone in a forum and i learned from the reaction for the future.
The cut is to me the most important factor of a value from a facetted gemstone, after than came clarity and than the color or origin.
An precision cut must have to me, minimum 85-90%+ of the stone must be have nearly perfect meetpoints, overall excellent polish and a very good minimum vs but eye clean clearity. If the clarity is to silky or si or included than an normal cut or classic precision cut with bigger facetts and round corners i would prefer. Is the stone eye clean and not to dark or silky i prefer modern precision cut oval, round, fantasy, emerald with round corners or very much and small facetts.

CS=colored stone.
This is a very interesting viewpoint, I enjoyed reading it! It is very unique to consider cut so highly. I recall that you have that precision cut ruby; it makes sense why now.
I would much rather have a decent native cut ruby, even slightly included, with top red color. Burma origin even better.
But we are all different.
Do you find certain materials almost impossible to find to your liking, because they are almost never precision cut?

 

[Odyssey44]

Size, color, cut, and clarity are all important to me. Of course this means I can't have everything and will have to give up something for stones to be within budget, but truly I could not say a set order of which criteria is more important to me (except my strict no windows rule) It is more of a case by case basis. I kind of go through my list of deal breakers. Window? Hard Nope. Small stone? Nope, unless it is for a project. Color does not please me? Nope, but I often like pastels as well as neon colors. Inclusions that bug me? Nope but they can be unobtrusive. As Autumn said up thread, it is a balance. That balance can be very subjective, so it is really a case by case evaluation. I will always try to pick a precision cut over a non-precision cut though. I like looking at the perfect way the facets meet up. But I do not like any cuts that look very angular. I like my one concave cut stone because it looks 3D to me, but would not like a Star-Bright concave cut. I cannot believe I do not yet have a Portuguese cut because in pictures I adore this cut. I need to remedy this situation.