How easy is it to damage a concave cut sapphire?

[skingsland]

Apparently, I damaged a concave cut sapphire I was looking at. I didn't notice any problems with it when I sent it back, but supposedly there is a huge chip on the culet.

I haven't seen any photos yet, but assuming this is the case... how easy is it to damage a sapphire? Is it enough to drop it on the floor, or hold it wrong with the tweezers that jewelers use?

I thought that sapphire was the hardest substance on earth, after diamond. So even though I was careful with the sapphire, I thought the greater risk was losing the tiny gem, as opposed to scratching or chipping it.

Thanks in advance for your feedback; this is probably going to be a very costly lesson for me to learn.

 

[LD]

Oh dear, this doesn't sound good. Unfortunately there isn't really an answer because any gemstone (including diamonds) can chip if dropped or held in the wrong way. Normally there is a weakness in the stone already (which you may be able to see or not) in order to damage it with tweezers but it can most definitely happen.

Another thought - could it have been damaged in transit?

 

[skingsland]

Another thought - could it have been damaged in transit?

Not likely, in my case. It was wrapped in several layers of padded packaging, and there was nothing else at all in the box/envelope which could have hurt it.

 

[iLander]

Oh, Steve, did you drop it?

If you dropped it . . . wince. You can chip a diamond by dropping it on a tile floor, and a sapphire is second hardest, but it's a distant second. Not on the Moh's number scale, but if you read the definitions for the numbers, the hardest and second hardest are very different.

Oh, I'm so sorry . . . was it one of Richard Homer's? Ouch.

That sucks man . . .

 

[VapidLapid]

Hardness is a somewhat deceptive concept. On Moh's scale it refers to susceptibility to scratching from harder materials. IT does not address the ideas of toughness and brittleness. Jadeite is relatively soft for a gemstone, but surprisingly tough. Also not accounted for in hardness is the idea of strength. concavities around ridges as one finds in concave cuts weakens the remaining material simply by removing the material that would have been adjacent to it in a flat facet stone.

 

[desertgem]

I know someone will ask sooner or later, so ..Do you have a photo? Do you know if it was treated? A concave facet in close proximity with another can sometimes produce almost a knife edge ( depending on the design). They do chip, but usually there is an underlying reason such as an internal fault not noticed, or physical damage. Hardness is different from susceptibility to fractures. Sorry,about the hassle you are enduring.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Awww, No, Steve.....
What tough luck!
I hope this turns out ok for you.....

 

[iLander]

I have an idea! This stone is one of Richard's cuts called the Stargazer. Can he recut the sapphire using this cut? It would hide the chipped culet and maybe he can sell it.

Crazy, I know, but worth a shot anyway . . .

 

[chrono]

A sapphire (concave cut or traditional faceting) can be damaged if dropped on the floor, just as a diamond can. I am sorry about the damage.

 

[tsavvy]

Hardness is a somewhat deceptive concept. On Moh's scale it refers to susceptibility to scratching from harder materials. IT does not address the ideas of toughness and brittleness. Jadeite is relatively soft for a gemstone, but surprisingly tough. Also not accounted for in hardness is the idea of strength. concavities around ridges as one finds in concave cuts weakens the remaining material simply by removing the material that would have been adjacent to it in a flat facet stone.

VapidLapid makes a very good point that most people do not understand -- hardness is not the only factor to consider when determining how "tough" a gemstone is in terms of handling. As mentioned by previous posters, a sapphire can be damaged by dropping it or handling it with tweezers. They can also be damaged when being measured with metal calipers. I noticed that you posted pictures of the RH stone in multiple settings at several jewelry stores. It is possible that a sales associate may have damaged it (I've had this happen to one of my nicer stones).

I'm really sorry that you've had to experience this costly lesson in stone handling. My recommendation is that you only take a stone to a jewelry store to look at settings after you have purchased the stone. Even then, either put the stone into the settings yourself or make sure that the person helping knows how to handle gems properly. Many sales associates treat colored stones just like they would a diamond, which can result in scratches or chips.

As a side note - I only use tweezers with teflon tips and plastic or fiberglass calipers with my gems to reduce the potential of scratching or chipping.

 

[skingsland]

OK, here are the photos of the chipped culet. To answer some of the questions, yes I dropped it on the tile floor in my kitchen once by accident when I was looking at it under the kitchen lights. Thinking sapphires to be almost as strong as diamonds, I did not realize this was a major problem, and did not see anything wrong with it after picking it up. Yes, I held up with tweezers (or are they called calipers?) in a couple of jewelry stores, and so did at least one salesperson, but I don't think I ever pinched it between the bottom and top. Yes, it was a Richard Homer heat treated sapphire.



For his part, Richard graciously offered to recut it for me (which of course I'll pay for), rather than just keeping all my money and returning the damaged gem to me. Then I'll have to decide whether I want to take the gem back, or pay him for the loss of value and he'll resell it, which it sounds like won't be too bad, because the weight won't go down too much with the recut. I'm waiting on Jeff White to have time to cut a sapphire for me, so at the very least I'll want to see how that turns out before taking Richard's gem back.

So, I guess the lesson for me, and other guys who are similarly uneducated about the finer points of precious gems, is: Before you spend thousands of dollars on something smaller than a single M&M, make sure you educate yourself on care and handling. To that end, if someone has a FAQ list of sapphire care and handling tips, do's and don'ts, etc., that would be much appreciated. (E.g., should I have bought tweezers with a plastic coating, lanier (sp?) and felt-lined box to use for inspecting my new gem? How do you look at it outside without worrying about it blowing away? Silly questions, maybe, but I apparently need all the help I can get...)

 

[VapidLapid]

Not silly questions at all. These things can be counter intuitive. Unset gems are more vulnerable than set stones. In a set stone that culet would have been unlikely to come in contact with much of anything. loose stones should never be examined standing especially on a hard floor, but at a table or desk with an velvet or other roll inhibiting material. Plastic tweezers, while goot for softer stones, I fint they are more likely to lose grip and launch the stone in a dangerous trajectory. The springy gem holders that look sort of like a hypodermic needle are good all around, but care still needs to be taken. Always only one stone to one box please. polished stones of even the same hardness will scratch other stones like them if given the chance. Putting two sapphires together in a box will abrade both of them. Think of them as siamese beta fish. Separate bowls unless they are mating.

 

[Lovinggems]

It's is very gracious of Richard Homer, I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[soberguy]

I don't know if this will help... I chipped my 3 carat oval unheated green sapphire dropping on a tile floor... however my alexandrite has been pinged (from tweezers that were too tight) from the dining room through the air... onto the kitchen tile floor without a scratch... Hardness vs. Toughness... good topic! Same with jadite beads... I have dropped them several times cleaning them without any scratches or chips.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Kind an interesting thread from a vendors point of view. As was pointed out, while stones are hard, hardness is only a measurement of what will scratch something. Dropping a rubber ball on the tile floor causes no damage, but dropping a hard object such as a diamond can easily chip or fracture it.

So, what happens when someone buys a stone. Since you can't really tell for sure from a picture, a stone needs to be seen in person, and in various lighting conditions. This means moving the stone indoors, outdoors, maybe the office etc. Compound that with one hand on a camera in many cases so you would be new treasure can be posted on Pricescope. I'd think stones are getting dropped quite often. I remember a year or so ago that someone dropped one through the crack in the deck and lost it.

Here's what I do once I cut a stone. While at my desk, have a good look at it as I clean if with a q-tip and rubbing alcohol. Then into a glass topped gem jar it goes. I take the jar about the house in various lights and outdoors, but the stone never leaves the gem jar. Then after I have a few stones finished they get photographed. These little gem jars can be a killer when opening. IF you just try to pull the tops off, often the stone goes flying out. The way to open them is this: on the side is a little indentation, that will fit either a dime, or the back of your tweezers. Insert the dime, and then twist, and the top comes off safely.

 

[T L]

What does it look like face up? Is the cutlet easy to notice from the table? The reason I ask is because once it's set, it may be less noticable. It may even benefit from a small open cutlet to even out that chip, which he can easily do, or an lapidary like Jerry Newman.

 

[skingsland]

Richard just finished the recut. He charged me a few hundred bucks for the labor, and nothing for the loss in value because he said it was very minimal.

Given that I took full responsibility for the (accidental, of course) damage to the gem, he certainly could have done far less to help me out. Based on this experience with him, and the knowledge he shared with me over email, I would do business again with Richard Homer in a heartbeat. Except next time I would be more careful when handling the gem...

Thanks to everyone for your advice and knowledge you've shared with me in this thread! I'll put it to good use next time I'm handling a precious gemstone, I promise.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Glad to hear it turned out amicably!

Don't feel too bad, believe me, all of us have our stories about how we lost/chipped/scratched/dropped a valued gem and had our hearts jump into our throats. Part of learning about gems is handling quite a few of them, and there are always accidents early on before we develop the (arguably neurotic and obsessive) safety precautions necessary in handling our little treasures.

Glad you found a sapphire you love, can't wait for more photos!

 

[Lee Little]

Hi all,
Just a quick comment about another way a stone can be damaged that one needs to be careful about. When checking the size of a ring one must look to see if the culet extends past the inside of the band. When it does extend past then care must be taken to line the culet up with the groove in the mandrel. Sometimes this groove is not even deep enough to accommodate some culets.
I watched a sales girl grind the culet off an expensive colored stone mounted in a ring once by turning it on the aluminum sizing mandrel while checking the size for a customer and wondered how much money the store owner was saving by using that type of uneducated help on the sales floor. Best regards, Lee

 

[Zzz]

I watched a sales girl grind the culet off an expensive colored stone mounted in a ring once by turning it on the aluminum sizing mandrel while checking the size for a customer and wondered how much money the store owner was saving by using that type of uneducated help on the sales floor. Best regards, Lee

!!!!!

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Hi all,
Just a quick comment about another way a stone can be damaged that one needs to be careful about. When checking the size of a ring one must look to see if the culet extends past the inside of the band. When it does extend past then care must be taken to line the culet up with the groove in the mandrel. Sometimes this groove is not even deep enough to accommodate some culets.
I watched a sales girl grind the culet off an expensive colored stone mounted in a ring once by turning it on the aluminum sizing mandrel while checking the size for a customer and wondered how much money the store owner was saving by using that type of uneducated help on the sales floor. Best regards, Lee

OH MY GOSH !!!
Actually, it wouldn't even occur to me that a gemstone would be set that way, wouldn't the culet scratch the finger, or am
I envisioning this incorrectly?

 

[Lee Little]

Hi ooo Shiney,
I think you have it envisioned correctly. Sometimes this is accidental by the designer or the stone setter but I do have some customers request that I design it that way as the thought is that the healing power or the influence of the stone is stronger when there is constant contact. Actually it is not uncomfortable as long as it is only a gentle amount of contact, it is not even noticable. Normally, however, I try to make rings without a contact point unless I am asked to make it with one. Best regards, Lee