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How does a crown facet get damaged?

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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@Karl_K on a single isolated crown facet (with excellent polsh), would you think repolishing could take a diamond from 2.061 to sub 2, or unlikely (to make the polish ideal)?

Of course that is the big elephant in the room really. Otherwise it's just the cost of repolishing and sending to AGS again, which is negligible in comparison to making the stone sub 2.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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@Karl_K on a single isolated crown facet (with excellent polsh), would you think repolishing could take a diamond from 2.061 to sub 2, or unlikely (to make the polish ideal)?

Of course that is the big elephant in the room really. Otherwise it's just the cost of repolishing and sending to AGS again, which is negligible in comparison to making the stone sub 2.
I very highly doubt it would take more than .01 off if even that.
It depends on what needs to be done to polish it to ID and keep symmetry ID. ie having to touch multiple facets.
The odds of it going below 2 are 0 because it is worth more with the EX polish than under 2ct so its not going to happen.
In that case the value lost would be the difference between a bgd black and his lower brand what ever he calls it.
My guess it will stay well above 2ct and get back to id/id and the expenses will be a touch up and a new report.
At this time I have no inside information about it so those are my educated guesses/opinion.
 

whitewave

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I very highly doubt it would take more than .01 off if even that.
It depends on what needs to be done to polish it to ID and keep symmetry ID. ie having to touch multiple facets.
The odds of it going below 2 are 0 because it is worth more with the EX polish than under 2ct so its not going to happen.
In that case the value lost would be the difference between a bgd black and his lower brand what ever he calls it.
My guess it will stay well above 2ct and get back to id/id and the expenses will be a touch up and a new report.
At this time I have no inside information about it so those are my educated guesses/opinion.
Ah, yes, true. After getting back to ideal, it needs a new report again.
 

MissGotRocks

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All seems a bit nit picky to me. I don't think Brian liked the idea of HPD unsetting the stone or losing a sale to HPD. I don't think it is any big deal to these vendors to have a small polish to a facet or even a girdle done and it would always go back to AGS for a new report for it.

I know nothing first hand of the details of the transaction either but this is the way it seems to me on the face of it. I am glad that the two vendors came to a mutually agreeable fix to the problem though.
 

whitewave

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All seems a bit nit picky to me. I don't think Brian liked the idea of HPD unsetting the stone or losing a sale to HPD. I don't think it is any big deal to these vendors to have a small polish to a facet or even a girdle done and it would always go back to AGS for a new report for it.

I know nothing first hand of the details of the transaction either but this is the way it seems to me on the face of it. I am glad that the two vendors came to a mutually agreeable fix to the problem though.
Well, how much are AGS reports because BGD had to get two new ones upon return.

I am also happy the two vendors worked it out, but I also wonder if this caused it? Sucks that both vendors got stuck when it might have been OP’s issue.

0E07BE55-6497-4585-8EC7-6C37C0324D8C.png

You know, scraping two rings against each other.

Which then makes me wonder if I need to be more careful with my ultrasonic because I sit and watch it and the jewelry tends to gravitate to each other. I took the basket out because they seem to get cleaner without the basket.

Maybe I should put the basket back in?
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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Which then makes me wonder if I need to be more careful with my ultrasonic because I sit and watch it and the jewelry tends to gravitate to each other. I took the basket out because they seem to get cleaner without the basket.

Maybe I should put the basket back in?
IMO put the basket back in and never ever ever let them touch each other, diamonds act like chain saws in the ultra sonic if they come in contact with anything.
Actually never ever let one piece of jewelry touch another in a way they were not designed to be together.
A huge cause of damage is improper storage.
 

whitewave

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IMO put the basket back in and never ever ever let them touch each other, diamonds act like chain saws in the ultra sonic if they come in contact with anything.
Actually never ever let one piece of jewelry touch another in a way they were not designed to be together.
A huge cause of damage is improper storage.
Thank you! I will go put the basket back in!!
 

the_mother_thing

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I really think @Dancing Fire needs to host a GTG so he can clean all of our rings ... at the same time. :whistle: :lol:

With regard to this topic, I think anything is possible that has been suggested as a potential cause for damage. I read the other thread re: the BGD diamond and it’s neither here nor there at this point, it seems. But something just still doesn’t sit right with me about it; in fact, I have a bad feeling in my gut about it, tbh. And regardless of how the ‘damage’ happened, this is why buyer’s (should) get/have insurance, especially when you are shipping it here, there, having someone work on it (regardless of how skilled their bench is, accidents DO happen), etc. Since both vendors *appear* to be taking the hit, it sounds like this buyer did not, and that’s unfortunate and - frankly - irresponsible considering all the ‘shuffling around’ she did with a very expensive diamond that she did not plan to keep. :naughty:
 

gm89uk

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Since both vendors *appear* to be taking the hit, it sounds like this buyer did not, and that’s unfortunate and - frankly - irresponsible considering all the ‘shuffling around’ she did with a very expensive diamond that she did not plan to keep. :naughty:
I think that's presumptuous, I see no photos of diamond hitting crown, just two rings secured with a 3 finger grip, carefully aligned to face up to the camera.

If none of this happened, no one would have taken issue with those photos saying, irresponsible handling of rings and hindsight is 20/20.

If there were photos of the setting process, I bet that would look much more sinister to the crown.

Bottom line is, we don't know, but fortunately it is resolved and the diamond will likely achieve ideal polish and remain >= 2ct.

The extra cost for the vendors will essentially be the facet polish (likely far less than the cost to consumers to polish), and a recert.

As refunds of mounted diamonds are accepted, and common, I wonder how often this issue happens with mounting unmounting? This was probably more highlighted (and fair enough) because of the involvement of a second vendor.
 
Last edited:

the_mother_thing

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I think that's presumptuous, I see no photos of diamond hitting crown, just two rings secured with a 3 finger grip, carefully aligned to face up to the camera.

If none of this happened, no one would have taken issue with those photos saying, irresponsible handling of rings and hindsight is 20/20.
:wavey: The portion of my comment that you quoted wasn’t in reference to the buyer holding two rings in her hand.

Not sure if you read all of the ‘backstory’ on this, but I was referring to her having taken possession of the diamond, and - for a period of 9 days - wore it, took it to a local store twice to compare it to other loose diamonds that were sent in for her to consider/compare the new diamond (not the pictures posted in this thread), shipped the diamond to a second vendor for unmounting (instead of the originating vendor), had it shipped back to her, then finally shipped it back to the originating vendor for return & refund.

That’s a lot of risky ‘shuffling around’ for a person to do with a $25K+ diamond they don’t have insured and are on the fence about and/or don’t plan to keep, given anything could have happened during those 9 days. In the absence of an appraisal noting it was damaged when she received it, I believe the buyer is responsible to the originating vendor if something happens, regardless of what/how something happens. That is why I said the buyer was irresponsible if she did not have insurance on the diamond given her actions with the diamond from the time she took possession until the time it was received by the originating vendor.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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I love that ringholder @Dancing Fire!
Re: ultras and rings, diamonds touching... oh momma, no, no, no! Ouch, ouch, ouch, yikes! Never ever allow that or the jewelry be banged against the metal walls or bottom of the ultra! I once saw someone clean like that which promtly resulted in several pieces missing diamonds, the pave got wrecked in multiple areas. Always, I repeat always have the stones and jewelry touch only plastic unless you are using a ring holder like the one shown above. If you cannot place your pieces far enough from each other and the metal clean them one by one if you must. Most ultra baskets have plenty enough space for several pieces though.
 

Ibrakeforpossums

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Mar 21, 2019
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My issue is that identifying the damage was near impossible until it was sent to AGS. It wasn't identified by a change in the performance of the diamond and was so undetectable that OP didn't notice it, HPD didn't notice it and BG had to send it back to AGS to identify it. By way of example, let's say I am rocking a 2ct AGS branded super ideal for 5 years, loving its performance with no regrets. Then I decide to get it reset and am told that this damage existed...no telling when it happened or how and at no time did I or anyone else, including my local jeweler who cleaned and inspected it annually, notice the damage or a change in the performance of the diamond. So perhaps an AGS Excellent (or well cut GIA ExExEx) would have been sufficient the entire time. I get that for some it is a mind clean thing and branded super ideals provide that, but the same thing happens to branded super ideal diamonds, so how mind clean is it really? Just because it was a branded super ideal at the time of purchase? I am not trying to drag on branded super ideals, but this just further affirms my opinion that the premium is not worth it to me. Some value branded Tiffany (one my very closest friend is a die hard Tiffany girl...nearly all her jewelry is from there and I would never fault her for that...it's what brings her joy), Cartier, VCA, etc. and find the premium for those brands worth it, others value branded super ideals. But at the end of the day, this damage could happen to any diamond making it no longer "super-ideal", but apparently not cause a detectable change in the performance of the stone.
 

Ibrakeforpossums

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Exactly. Thank you for running this down to its logical conclusion.
Unfortunately this comes from the "don't pay for what you can't see" camp.
 

Wewechew

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Exactly. Thank you for running this down to its logical conclusion.
Unfortunately this comes from the "don't pay for what you can't see" camp.
You realize the same thing can happen to a GIA XXX, right? I’m sorry, but I don’t get why this story is such a cautionary tail for buying a super idea.
 

Kaycee2018

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@Wewechew , I wasn’t trying to imply in my posts that this situation is a “cautionary tale” for buying super ideals, just that it’s another thing to consider for those deciding if the premium associated with branded super ideals is worth it for them. For many, there is no question that the premium is worth it and only branded super ideals will do, but many others struggle with the decision and this scenario is just another consideration. And re: GIA XXX, I addressed that in my first post in this thread. I apologize if my posts came off as some sort of warning about super ideals, but I was shocked that normal use over a couple weeks could result in damage to a diamond taking out of the super ideal category (I think many were), so IMO it’s just another factor to consider.

Yikes. All I have to say is that if it takes that little to downgrade an AGS Ideal to an AGS Excellent, I am even more comfortable in my decision to not pay the premium for branded super ideals. What is the point if at any given time during normal wear and tear, handling, etc. it could lose the value associated with premium? While I'm sure a GIA ExExEx might be downgraded under the same circumstances, but in general there isn't a premium associated a GIA ExExEx.
 

Wewechew

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@Wewechew , I wasn’t trying to imply in my posts that this situation is a “cautionary tale” for buying super ideals, just that it’s another thing to consider for those deciding if the premium associated with branded super ideals is worth it for them. For many, there is no question that the premium is worth it and only branded super ideals will do, but many others struggle with the decision and this scenario is just another consideration. And re: GIA XXX, I addressed that in my first post in this thread. I apologize if my posts came off as some sort of warning about super ideals, but I was shocked that normal use over a couple weeks could result in damage to a diamond taking out of the super ideal category (I think many were), so IMO it’s just another factor to consider.
But it would be a consideration with ANY diamond with a excellent or ideal grade. The diamond in question just happens to be a super ideal, and not from Blue Nile or James Allen. Some of us are convinced BG could see the damage when they got the diamond back, which is the reason he sent the stone to be recertified (I’ve returned a stone to BG and it didn’t need to be sent to AGS in order for me to get my money back). If it had been from Blue Nile or James Allen, would they have noticed the damage upon intake? Who knows. But if they had, the customer would have been on the hook for that damage. So I’m just not seeing how this is one more consideration when only buying a super ideal. It’s a consideration no matter where you buy it from.
 

Kaycee2018

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But it would be a consideration with ANY diamond with a excellent or ideal grade. The diamond in question just happens to be a super ideal, and not from Blue Nile or James Allen. Some of us are convinced BG could see the damage when they got the diamond back, which is the reason he sent the stone to be recertified (I’ve returned a stone to BG and it didn’t need to be sent to AGS in order for me to get my money back). If it had been from Blue Nile or James Allen, would they have noticed the damage upon intake? Who knows. But if they had, the customer would have been on the hook for that damage. So I’m just not seeing how this is one more consideration when only buying a super ideal. It’s a consideration no matter where you buy it from.

I agree 100% that this should be a consideration regardless. My point was specifically as it relates to the premium associated with super ideals since it is a decision a lot of people who come here struggle with.
 

Mamabean

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Slightly off topic but worth sharing..I think...I never store my studs or any diamond jewelry together. I bought little plastic bags for my jewelry..just big enough to put one earring in one bag and put it inside another which holds the other stud. Each of my diamond bands and rings have their own bag. I really separate the diamond jewelry in the Magnasonic to keep them from coming anywhere close to each other...I heard horror stories about diamonds scratching each other when they are stored together...
 

Kaycee2018

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Slightly off topic but worth sharing..I think...I never store my studs or any diamond jewelry together. I bought little plastic bags for my jewelry..just big enough to put one earring in one bag and put it inside another which holds the other stud. Each of my diamond bands and rings have their own bag. I really separate the diamond jewelry in the Magnasonic to keep them from coming anywhere close to each other...I heard horror stories about diamonds scratching each other when they are stored together...
I do the same! And my pieces are placed far away from one another on my jewelry tray at night too. Can never be too safe with keeping them apart.
 

gm89uk

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@the_mother_thing seems I was presumptuous about your presumption!

Regarding premium for super ideal, I don't think this story is relevant. The super ideal premium is largely due to cut and weight sacrifice, polish is probably the least visually significant contributor, especially anything as minor as this. Barring some serious damage, the cut will remain consistent for all the years to come.

I do remember reading the touching the table with a finger is the visual equivalent of taking 'excellent' polish to 'good'.

Just because nobody could tell the AGS000 became AGS001 is not relevant to the price worth of super ideals. What's probably more critical is the optical performance of generic AGS 000 (or qualifying GIAXXX) and super ideal AGS000
 

the_mother_thing

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My issue is that identifying the damage was near impossible until it was sent to AGS. It wasn't identified by a change in the performance of the diamond and was so undetectable that OP didn't notice it, HPD didn't notice it and BG had to send it back to AGS to identify it.
Perhaps I missed it, but where was it stated that the damage was not able to be identified by BGD until it was sent back to AGS? I inferred the AGS review was to confirm the damage BGD suspected; not ‘search for damage’ that they didn’t see, so to speak. And that seems the prudent thing to do, under the circumstances. What I gathered from the Buyer’s posts were: BGD advised her they found ‘damage’, and they were having AGS assess the diamond to be sure ... again, seems the prudent thing to do vs. to guess what the suspected damage was. They very well couldn’t have told her “Yea, we got your diamond, but it’ll be a couple weeks until we get you a refund” and not explain the reason for the delay.

It’s a shame the Buyer hasn’t come back to post an update herself so people didn’t have to speculate. I’ve said before - I’m no fan of BGD based on the customer service I’ve received and read others to have received; however, I’m also fair enough to consider that they may not have been in the wrong here in what they did to protect their interests in the matter.
 

coda72

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I have something to add to this discussion because I am in the process of upgrading my diamond from BGD and my diamond when sent to AGS was downgraded to 1 for polish. This was a diamond I had for 3 years, and although I didn’t wear it daily, it got plenty of wear. I’m surprised that this happened because I’ve done quite a few upgrades, and never damaged a diamond. But I guess this shows that it’s not an isolated event, minor damage can happen to a diamond.
 

MissGotRocks

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I have something to add to this discussion because I am in the process of upgrading my diamond from BGD and my diamond when sent to AGS was downgraded to 1 for polish. This was a diamond I had for 3 years, and although I didn’t wear it daily, it got plenty of wear. I’m surprised that this happened because I’ve done quite a few upgrades, and never damaged a diamond. But I guess this shows that it’s not an isolated event, minor damage can happen to a diamond.
So how did this downgrade affect your trade in?
 
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