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How does a crown facet get damaged?

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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We had a recent post where a consumer bought and had mounted a BGD black line diamond, received it and then wore it for a few days before deciding she wanted to go in a different direction with a Crafted by infinity diamond. One vendor mounted the stone and another vendor unmounted the stone and sent the stone back to the consumer who then returned it to BGD.

Upon return to BGD, they discovered a crown facet had been damaged, which resulted in the AGSL polish getting downgraded from Ideal to excellent, which then required the two vendors to come to an agreeement among themselves as to how to equitably handle the damage and the intended remedy to get the stone back to Brian Gavin Black standards.

So, I am genuinely interested in ways a few days worn diamond gets a crown facet damaged? Knocked by the consumer? Dropped by the consumer? Mounting or unmounting?
 
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whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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Before asking how-
My first thought would be the wondering to see a macro shot of what an ideal crown facet junction looks like opposed to an excellent crown facet junction as it is in this case.
Then the how.
Interesting points.
 

scarsmum

Brilliant_Rock
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This all reminds me, at the risk of changing the subject, does anyone know where I could send a diamond for repolishing? I believe it has only “very good” polish and I would love to get it up to excellent.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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The issue for me - and probably why you should have the stone unmounted by the original vendor when returning - is there is probably NO WAY of knowing when the facet got damaged. Especially if it was under a prong, it could have been damaged when setting, when in the owner’s use, or when unsetting. Unfortunately adding a third party made the situation more complicated. I’ve read about Flawless stones being downgraded after setting or wear (even fairly minimal wear) and I wonder if this is sort of the same thing.
 

Rose-gold-or-bust

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I wonder how subjective it all is really. Is everything measured by lasers and calculated out to give an answer? Or does a gemologist look through a microscope and give their opinion of the polish grade? What if them gemologist next to them disagrees?
 

Wewechew

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I wonder how subjective it all is really. Is everything measured by lasers and calculated out to give an answer? Or does a gemologist look through a microscope and give their opinion of the polish grade? What if them gemologist next to them disagrees?
I’m curious if BG noticed the damage to the facet when they inspected it.
 

yssie

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Which makes the entire story make more sense.
It really doesn’t.
If they’d seen damage they’d have sent a half dozen macro photos of that damage and a detailed explanation to justify their position, not one or two of a generically grubby stone with a generic descriptor of “filthy”.
Look through Brian’s posts here on PS. When he is confident he is right and someone else is wrong he is not shy with his opinion or defense.
BGD’s behaviour was abominable, no ifs, ands, or buts. But their abominable behaviour doesn’t IMO earn them responsibility for taking a loss on the stone.
 

Wewechew

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It really doesn’t.
If they’d seen damage they’d have sent a half dozen macro photos of that damage and a detailed explanation to justify their position, not one or two of a generically grubby stone with a generic descriptor of “filthy”.
Look through Brian’s posts here on PS. When he is confident he is right and someone else is wrong he is not shy with his opinion or defense.
BGD’s behaviour was abominable, no ifs, ands, or buts.
I’m not saying they handled it well. And from my experience returning a stone to them, they don’t make the entire process comfortable to begin with. But getting AGS’s documentation of the grade change makes sense.
 

yssie

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I’m not saying they handled it well. And from my experience returning a stone to them, they don’t make the entire process comfortable to begin with. But getting AGS’s documentation of the grade change makes sense.
Oh absolutely - I misunderstood your post. Yes, I agreed with that from the beginning as well.
 

chamois

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We will never know who is responsible for the damage to the stone, or when it happened. This is a tough situation, one I hope I’m NEVER faced with.
It seems that the Vendors are handling this situation with the upmost respect and I applaud them for this.
 

MissGotRocks

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And what constitutes the damage? Surely it couldn’t have been terrible to only reduce the grade from ideal to excellent. Was it a chip, an abrasion of some type? Did it require a repolishing or something more to alter the weight of the stone? If it required more than just a repolish I would think that other facets might have had to be tweaked and yet it doesn’t sound like the damage was that extensive. Just thinking out loud but the story sounded a bit off from the beginning. So did Wink and company have to bear the expense of making the stone right because his house took the stone out of the setting? They set and unset stones all the time as I presume Brian does as well. How many stones are damaged this way? Very few if any I am guessing. Or did the problem exist with the stone before it was unset? Just creates many more questions than answers and when folks don’t have the facts, they tend to make up their own version of them. A truly unfortunate incident for all involved.
 

whitewave

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Yeah, I agree it sounds like a fluke without knowing more facts but idk what any of it really means anyway :confused:
 

Karl_K

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I had a long answer thought out and after reading this and the other thread I am having serious second thoughts about posting anything.
But into the fire I go.
As Wink admits in the other thread he knew it was a bad idea to unmount the stone but hey he is human and not perfect.
When returning a diamond whether its for a return or trade unless instructed otherwise have the vendor remove the stone from the setting.
Some places it will make them refuse the return or upgrade if they dont remove the stone from the setting.
If someone else unseats the stone you have someone else in the loop if there is damage which is a bad thing.
In this case it worked out because Wink and Brian are both good guys and made it work out for the client.

The amount of I hate to call it damage but dunno a better word to got from AGS ID to Ex is very very small and could have happened at any time.

The most common cause minor polish issues is coming in contact with another diamond but other things are possible.
It is not impossible for it to happen during setting or polishing of the ring.
It is not impossible to get some corner abrasions from tweezers or spring clips.
It is not impossible for it to happen when its being unseated.
Its not impossible for it to happen when a diamond is dropped.
Its not impossible for it to happen while being worn.
 

tigertales

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I dunno, cause I'm not a diamond polisher, but I do know this...it takes a heck of a lot to chip or scratch a diamond. I mentioned in another post I once had to split a garnet. I did it with a hammer on a concrete floor ( long story!) . Seriously, I couldn't damage that thing to save my life. And garnets are like, what, a 7 or 8 on Mohs?

And when diamonds are chipped on setting/unsetting, isn't the damage most likely at the girdle? Of course tools can slip, but that's the vulnerable point usually. An abrasion on the crown facet would come from a very hard knock, and is very rare, and usually because the stone has a vulnerability like a feather near the surface. I think it's weird there was a flaw discovered without someone distinctly knowing when it happened. I mean, you remember when you whacked that ring against the washing machine ( my mortal enemy when wearing diamonds), or when you tripped on the garden hose on your stone patio right?

So one of four people know the deal. Two setters, one dealer, one consumer.
 
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Kaycee2018

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Yikes. All I have to say is that if it takes that little to downgrade an AGS Ideal to an AGS Excellent, I am even more comfortable in my decision to not pay the premium for branded super ideals. What is the point if at any given time during normal wear and tear, handling, etc. it could lose the value associated with premium? While I'm sure a GIA ExExEx might be downgraded under the same circumstances, but in general there isn't a premium associated a GIA ExExEx.
 

MissGotRocks

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Yikes. All I have to say is that if it takes that little to downgrade an AGS Ideal to an AGS Excellent, I am even more comfortable in my decision to not pay the premium for branded super ideals. What is the point if at any given time during normal wear and tear, handling, etc. it could lose the value associated with premium? While I'm sure a GIA ExExEx might be downgraded under the same circumstances, but in general there isn't a premium associated a GIA ExExEx.
That's where having a good insurance policy steps in to either fix the problem or replace the stone.
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
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That's where having a good insurance policy steps in to either fix the problem or replace the stone.
My issue is that identifying the damage was near impossible until it was sent to AGS. It wasn't identified by a change in the performance of the diamond and was so undetectable that OP didn't notice it, HPD didn't notice it and BG had to send it back to AGS to identify it. By way of example, let's say I am rocking a 2ct AGS branded super ideal for 5 years, loving its performance with no regrets. Then I decide to get it reset and am told that this damage existed...no telling when it happened or how and at no time did I or anyone else, including my local jeweler who cleaned and inspected it annually, notice the damage or a change in the performance of the diamond. So perhaps an AGS Excellent (or well cut GIA ExExEx) would have been sufficient the entire time. I get that for some it is a mind clean thing and branded super ideals provide that, but the same thing happens to branded super ideal diamonds, so how mind clean is it really? Just because it was a branded super ideal at the time of purchase? I am not trying to drag on branded super ideals, but this just further affirms my opinion that the premium is not worth it to me. Some value branded Tiffany (one my very closest friend is a die hard Tiffany girl...nearly all her jewelry is from there and I would never fault her for that...it's what brings her joy), Cartier, VCA, etc. and find the premium for those brands worth it, others value branded super ideals. But at the end of the day, this damage could happen to any diamond making it no longer "super-ideal", but apparently not cause a detectable change in the performance of the stone.
 

MissGotRocks

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My issue is that identifying the damage was near impossible until it was sent to AGS. It wasn't identified by a change in the performance of the diamond and was so undetectable that OP didn't notice it, HPD didn't notice it and BG had to send it back to AGS to identify it. By way of example, let's say I am rocking a 2ct AGS branded super ideal for 5 years, loving its performance with no regrets. Then I decide to get it reset and am told that this damage existed...no telling when it happened or how and at no time did I or anyone else, including my local jeweler who cleaned and inspected it annually, notice the damage or a change in the performance of the diamond. So perhaps an AGS Excellent (or well cut GIA ExExEx) would have been sufficient the entire time. I get that for some it is a mind clean thing and branded super ideals provide that, but the same thing happens to branded super ideal diamonds, so how mind clean is it really? Just because it was a branded super ideal at the time of purchase? I am not trying to drag on branded super ideals, but this just further affirms my opinion that the premium is not worth it to me. Some value branded Tiffany (one my very closest friend is a die hard Tiffany girl...nearly all her jewelry is from there and I would never fault her for that...it's what brings her joy), Cartier, VCA, etc. and find the premium for those brands worth it, others value branded super ideals. But at the end of the day, this damage could happen to any diamond making it no longer "super-ideal", but apparently not cause a detectable change in the performance of the stone.
If the super ideal diamond is not worth it to you I certainly understand that. I was married for almost 40 years without one. However, just because it can be damaged doesn’t necessarily negate owning one as it is an insurable thing that can be repaired or replaced - regardless of when you notice it. The symmetry and polish of a super ideal cut stone is but one facet of the branding. The most important aspect Is the cut itself - both a visual and a mind clean issue but ultimately the pinnacle of the super ideals.
 
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