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How do you know it''s time to leave a job?

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musey

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My husband has been at the same company for almost three years now. It was his first job out of college, he was initially placed as a temp and then hired full-time almost immediately. Since then, he's been given three "huge" (in their words) promotions, had four people placed under him (he started at the 'bottom' of his dept.), and they've dissolved two positions because they found that he could do the work of three people.

In that time, he's been given 0 raises.

He's recently been contacted by a few different companies about open positions, which led him to doing a little research into his position and what people are normally paid (keeping in mind that while he has the one title, he fills three positions). He's found that most companies pay 40-60% more for just his primary position.

So now we're having a lot of late-night discussions (he works unpaid overtime most days) about his prospects, what his current job is worth to him (outside salary), etc. I've never been involved in office-type jobs, and this is his first... so we're struggling (with some help from his parents and mentors) to figure out what his next move should be. We're both gun-shy about him quitting, even for immediate placement somewhere else. Dunno why.


So I thought I could get some random thoughts about this stuff from the lovely PSers. When is it time to move on? When is it not, yet?
 

meresal

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Umm... 40-60%... musey, the time would be now...

I would set up interviews at one or two of the companies that have showed interest.

ETA: If these other companies are seriously interested, it is fine to be upfront with the current employer and ask them if they would like to counter offer.
 

D&T

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ummm, for me was when my customer service started to go down hill and I wasn''t giving my 110% like i usually do, and dreaded waking up every morning to go to work.. so I knew it was time to find another... now I am happy where I''m at 2.5 years into my job, and due to the economy did not get a raise in 1.5 years. but happy with my salary anyways.. I"m just thankful to have a job during these hard times. Good luck...though
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:48:09 PM
Author: meresal
Umm... 40-60%... musey, the time would be now...

I would set up interviews at one or two of the companies that have showed interest.
Yeah. That is my overwhelming feeling, as well.

I think what''s keeping him there are the perks... they allow him to bring in his dog, the health benefits are REALLY good, it''s a laid-back atmosphere, they pay for continuing education in his field. All that is not worth such a huge increase, that would completely change our lifestyle from tighttighttight budget.
 

meresal

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:50:28 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/14/2009 4:48:09 PM
Author: meresal
Umm... 40-60%... musey, the time would be now...

I would set up interviews at one or two of the companies that have showed interest.
Yeah. That is my overwhelming feeling, as well.

I think what''s keeping him there are the perks... they allow him to bring in his dog, the health benefits are REALLY good, it''s a laid-back atmosphere, they pay for continuing education in his field. All that is not worth such a huge increase, that would completely change our lifestyle from tighttighttight budget.
Have you all looked into these other companie''s health plans? You just have to weigh the benfits. However, like I said earlier, he can always go in ans ask his current company if they would like to counter offer.

If they do, then you could be looking at a higher pay and get to stay at the company with the perks.
 

elrohwen

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Quit now while he has job offers!! It's one thing to hang in there because you can't find another job, but it's another thing to hang in there when other offers are available.

Once your job starts sucking, it will probably only go down hill. Life is too short to waste in a place that won't even pay you the going rate while expecting you to do the job of three people.

As someone in a horrible horrible job looking desperately for something else, I would tell him to get out of there! I don't think he'll regret it. Also, 3 years into your first job is when most people tend to move on (I'm at the same place, and many of my co-workers came here as their second job after 3 years at another company) so it's a good time to go.

ETA: I love Mer's idea of approaching his current boss and asking for a raise based on his other offers. I got a 12% raise that way.
 

ChinaCat

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Musey-

He should most definitely explore other offers. It can't hurt- best case scenario he gets another offer at a higher salary and can go back to his current company and let them make a counter-offer. Either way, he makes more $$$.

Worst case scenario is what????? Ask him what is the worst that could happen? He doesn't find something else and stays where he is? Which is exactly where he already is.

Sounds like they are taking advantage of him. 3 years is a perfect amount of time to stay at a first job. Often times you have to leave to get a pay raise. Staying doesn't make sense here.

Unless of course, due to the economy, he doesn't have other options. Then you just gotta suck it up!


Why are you guys hesitant about him leaving?

ETA: Ok, saw your post about the perks. So that can go into the equation, but he should still definitely get another offer first and THEN weigh the pros and cons.
 

bee*

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I found that I had to leave when I actually dreaded walking in the door and all I could think about in the evening was that I had to go back to that place again. When you feel like you''re being taken advantage of is never nice in a job. If he can get 40-60% higher elsewhere I''d definitely put the feelers out and go for some interviews. That''s a huge difference in wages and also the next place he might like a bit more.
 

decodelighted

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It can''t hurt to interview. Interviews work both ways ... he''d be finding out from the other companies if they OFFER what he''d need to leave his current job. Its honestly the best position to be in ... to NOT want to leave your current company.

And I agree with Meresel that if he did get an offer that would tempt him & if he was leaning toward that offer ... he can give his current employer the info & ability to counter-offer.

Unfortunately, most of the big jumps you make in a career $$-wise are from co to co. Not internal. People see you a certain way & have a mental block about paying more for you. Outside company''s have a clean slate perception. If they want you, they want you. And that *desire* makes paying less painful.
 

CNOS128

Ideal_Rock
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Yeah, along the lines of what Meresal suggested about researching benefits -- does he know people who work at these companies? Do they have Vault ratings or is there another way to find out if people are happy working there? Would his hours change drastically?
 

Tuckins1

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I would definitely leave if he has the opportunity. It doesn''t seem like his company cares about keeping their employees happy, or properly compensated.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:53:13 PM
Author: meresal
Date: 4/14/2009 4:50:28 PM
Author: musey
Date: 4/14/2009 4:48:09 PM
Author: meresal
Umm... 40-60%... musey, the time would be now...

I would set up interviews at one or two of the companies that have showed interest.
Yeah. That is my overwhelming feeling, as well.

I think what''s keeping him there are the perks... they allow him to bring in his dog, the health benefits are REALLY good, it''s a laid-back atmosphere, they pay for continuing education in his field. All that is not worth such a huge increase, that would completely change our lifestyle from tighttighttight budget.
Have you all looked into these other companie''s health plans? You just have to weigh the benfits.
Not yet, this has all come up in the past week or so.

However, like I said earlier, he can always go in ans ask his current company if they would like to counter offer.

If they do, then you could be looking at a higher pay and get to stay at the company with the perks.
He had an informal chat with his first boss about his raise prospects for the next cycle (they''d promised him a sizable one to make up for none over the past promotions, etc.), and the guy thought it was very unlikely they''d be able to go up even 20%, and impossible to expect more than that. So there''s no way he can get the pay that these other places are offering at his current company. Major bummer.

I do feel like it''s obviously time to move on, but since I have no experience with formal employment like this, it''s hard for me to trust any instinct I have on that front.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:53:47 PM
Author: elrohwen
3 years into your first job is when most people tend to move on (I''m at the same place, and many of my co-workers came here as their second job after 3 years at another company) so it''s a good time to go.
That makes sense - as a lot of the jobs he''s been looking into require 3 years experience. Most of our friends have switched jobs a couple times a year after graduating, I don''t know if that''s a weird regional thing. He''s the only one who''s stuck it out, and feels disappointed that he''s not being financially rewarded for doing so.
 

bee*

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That''s a pity that they won''t increase his salary about 20%. He should definitely go out there and interview. The perks seem to be good in the place that he''s at now but with a 40-60% rise in salary he could probably afford those things easily in a new job, even if they don''t offer them.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:54:32 PM
Author: ChinaCat
Sounds like they are taking advantage of him.quote]
That''s my feeling, as well. They lucked out in finding a skilled temp fresh out of college with no job history. If they wanted to replace him, they would have to pay the 40-60% more - their salaries are not in any way competitive for his job market.

Why are you guys hesitant about him leaving?

ETA: Ok, saw your post about the perks. So that can go into the equation, but he should still definitely get another offer first and THEN weigh the pros and cons.
I think it''s to do with the work atmosphere and perks, but even more just plain nerves. He really loves his job, feels valued (though not financially) and respected, etc. It''s rewarding for him in that way. I think he is very afraid that were he to move on, the next place would not be an enjoyable work environment.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:55:34 PM
Author: bee*
I found that I had to leave when I actually dreaded walking in the door and all I could think about in the evening was that I had to go back to that place again. When you feel like you''re being taken advantage of is never nice in a job. If he can get 40-60% higher elsewhere I''d definitely put the feelers out and go for some interviews. That''s a huge difference in wages and also the next place he might like a bit more.
Yeah, I think that even though he is very happy with his atmosphere/environment, the salary discrepancy is going to start weighing on him. He feels like those who work with him value and respect him, but they are not the ones determining salaries.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:59:18 PM
Author: decodelighted
It can''t hurt to interview. Interviews work both ways ... he''d be finding out from the other companies if they OFFER what he''d need to leave his current job. Its honestly the best position to be in ... to NOT want to leave your current company.

And I agree with Meresel that if he did get an offer that would tempt him & if he was leaning toward that offer ... he can give his current employer the info & ability to counter-offer.

Unfortunately, most of the big jumps you make in a career $$-wise are from co to co. Not internal. People see you a certain way & have a mental block about paying more for you. Outside company''s have a clean slate perception. If they want you, they want you. And that *desire* makes paying less painful.
Yes, this touches on something big for him. He''s frustrated that they would have to pay way more for an outside hire than they would to keep him, so why can''t they see that? They will likely find out the hard way if/when he leaves, and they start interviewing replacements.

But, it works in his favor for a move, of course.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 4:59:44 PM
Author: TheBigT
Yeah, along the lines of what Meresal suggested about researching benefits -- does he know people who work at these companies? Do they have Vault ratings or is there another way to find out if people are happy working there? Would his hours change drastically?
He doesn''t know anyone at the companies, but one of them he was recommended in a friend-of-a-past-coworker kind of situation. I will have to look into Vault ratings - I''ve never heard of that (again, not a structured job girl myself).
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 5:00:43 PM
Author: Tuckins1
I would definitely leave if he has the opportunity. It doesn''t seem like his company cares about keeping their employees happy, or properly compensated.
Yeah there''s a weird disconnect - the environment is awesome and he is very happy in every way, except his compensation... which is a pretty big aspect of one''s job happiness, in most situations.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 5:06:29 PM
Author: bee*
That''s a pity that they won''t increase his salary about 20%. He should definitely go out there and interview. The perks seem to be good in the place that he''s at now but with a 40-60% rise in salary he could probably afford those things easily in a new job, even if they don''t offer them.
Very good point! With that big of a jump, it''s hard to find downsides.
 

neatfreak

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Totally worth looking into! And FWIW-if his current company is faced with him leaving and potentially having to hire THREE people to replace him they might be singing a different tune about the raises...
 

meresal

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Date: 4/14/2009 5:00:59 PM
Author: musey



Date: 4/14/2009 4:53:13 PM
Author: meresal



Date: 4/14/2009 4:50:28 PM
Author: musey



Date: 4/14/2009 4:48:09 PM
Author: meresal
Umm... 40-60%... musey, the time would be now...

I would set up interviews at one or two of the companies that have showed interest.
Yeah. That is my overwhelming feeling, as well.

I think what's keeping him there are the perks... they allow him to bring in his dog, the health benefits are REALLY good, it's a laid-back atmosphere, they pay for continuing education in his field. All that is not worth such a huge increase, that would completely change our lifestyle from tighttighttight budget.
Have you all looked into these other companie's health plans? You just have to weigh the benfits.
Not yet, this has all come up in the past week or so.




However, like I said earlier, he can always go in ans ask his current company if they would like to counter offer.

If they do, then you could be looking at a higher pay and get to stay at the company with the perks.
He had an informal chat with his first boss about his raise prospects for the next cycle (they'd promised him a sizable one to make up for none over the past promotions, etc.), and the guy thought it was very unlikely they'd be able to go up even 20%, and impossible to expect more than that. So there's no way he can get the pay that these other places are offering at his current company. Major bummer.

I do feel like it's obviously time to move on, but since I have no experience with formal employment like this, it's hard for me to trust any instinct I have on that front.

If his boss thinks the most they would offer is 20%... and he got that. You probably wouldn't be looking at another raise for a good long while, so if he decides to stay at that compnay, make sure the benefits are worth whatever expenses you might have in the next 5-10 years. Otherwise, your DH going to be looking at jobs again in the next couple years and these companies might not be interested anymore.
From what you've shared I think it may be time to move on as well. Sit down, decide on an un-spoken "price", and see if these other companies will meet it. If they won't then stick it out at the current company, and hope that he gets that 20% raise!!

ETA: Musey, there is ALOT to be said for enjoying your work environment. I am not someone that would necessarily put a price on going into an office daily, that I still enjoy after 3 years.
 

musey

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I really try not to sway him, because he''s easygoing and I really don''t want him to do something he''s not comfortable with just because I convinced him it was the best option... but for me, I almost feel as though he''s rewarding their cheapness. Not only have they gotten away with piling more and more responsibility without added benefits for him, they''ve been able to stop paying the salary of two whole employees because of his abilities... so they had that much extra money just because of him, which he has seen none of.

It''s difficult to wrap my head around 3 years, 3 huge promotions, 4 people put under him, doing the work of 3 people... and not one single pay bump?
 

Mara

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31,003
there's money and then there is quality of life. sometimes it's worth it to take less money for better job quality of life (aka the perks you mention)....but you have to weigh that yourselves. is that worth 40-60%? i dont think so. maybe 20%. or sometimes you can find similar quality of job life for really NO loss in pay. that would be what i'd strive for.

i'd start setting up interviews, he should be looking around while he's with this company. does he feel loyal to this company, knowing what he knows why would he stay? they obviously don't value him as they are trying to work him into the ground for less money. and trust me if another guy LIKE HIM came along and was willing to do the same work for even LESS money, they'd can him in a second. he has to look out for #1 ... sounds like he has given them ample opps to own up to what they should be giving him. i'd have started looking a year ago or more. then again when i was out of college, my main priority was just learning as much as possible and clmibing the ladder. i stayed at each job 1 year for the next 3 companies, and then it was 2+ years and then just kept moving on...but that is very typical here in this area.
 

Octavia

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Musey, another thing to consider is job security. I don''t know how "safe" his current position is, but he should keep in mind that, if he moves companies, he''ll probably lose any seniority he''s built up. Not that he should stay at his current position because of that -- especially with that huge a pay disparity -- but if he decides to go somewhere else he should be as certain as he can that the position will be around for as long as he wants it. It would just be a shame if he took a "better" position only to have the company go under or something.

That said, I think he should definitely still interview! If he doesn''t, then he can''t really make an informed decision about whether to stay at his current company or go somewhere else, and it''s too important a decision to make by default.
 

ChinaCat

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From what you''ve said, there is no reason for him not to interview and see what offers he gets. Fear isn''t a good reason for NOT trying something. He always has a choice- he doesn''t have to accept any of the job offers if he decides he wants to stay. Options are always a good thing to have.
 

musey

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Date: 4/14/2009 5:15:25 PM
Author: neatfreak
Totally worth looking into! And FWIW-if his current company is faced with him leaving and potentially having to hire THREE people to replace him they might be singing a different tune about the raises...
That''s what I thought, as well! I''m honestly flabbergasted that his boss didn''t think he''d be able to give him a more fair raise. Their talk was just yesterday and he''s going to be speaking to higher-ups on my husband''s behalf, so we might be surprised by what they say... but it would be heart-attack level of surprise.
 

lliang_chi

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Messages
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As much as he''s getting underpaid, he might not get a HUGE salary increase just because he leaves his job. It''s obvious, but I"ll still say it: don''t spend the $$ before you get it. But it sounds like he should at least explore the options. No harm in trying...
 

FrekeChild

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Date: 4/14/2009 5:06:29 PM
Author: bee*
That''s a pity that they won''t increase his salary about 20%. He should definitely go out there and interview. The perks seem to be good in the place that he''s at now but with a 40-60% rise in salary he could probably afford those things easily in a new job, even if they don''t offer them.
Ditto. I think it''s time to move on as well. I can''t believe they haven''t given him any other raises. That''s just crazy to me!
 
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