How do you know it''s time to leave a job?

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:17:15 PM
Author: meresal
If his boss thinks the most they would offer is 20%... and he got that. You probably wouldn''t be looking at another raise for a good long while, so if he decides to stay at that compnay, make sure the benefits are worth whatever expenses you might have in the next 5-10 years. Otherwise, your DH going to be looking at jobs again in the next couple years and these companies might not be interested anymore.

From what you''ve shared I think it may be time to move on as well. Sit down, decide on an un-spoken ''price'', and see if these other companies will meet it. If they won''t then stick it out at the current company, and hope that he gets that 20% raise!!

That''s a really good point, I hadn''t even thought about that. 20% more would definitely not work for us for that amount of time, unless we scrap our plans for kids and stay in our 500sf apt.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:22:10 PM
Author: lliang_chi
As much as he''s getting underpaid, he might not get a HUGE salary increase just because he leaves his job. It''s obvious, but I''ll still say it: don''t spend the $$ before you get it. But it sounds like he should at least explore the options. No harm in trying...

Spend what money?

He wouldn''t leave his job for anything less than a "huge" (40%+) salary increase, so that''s sort of a non-issue. He would NEVER leave an otherwise good job without a new job locked in.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:23:27 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 4/14/2009 5:06:29 PM
Author: bee*
That''s a pity that they won''t increase his salary about 20%. He should definitely go out there and interview. The perks seem to be good in the place that he''s at now but with a 40-60% rise in salary he could probably afford those things easily in a new job, even if they don''t offer them.

Ditto. I think it''s time to move on as well. I can''t believe they haven''t given him any other raises. That''s just crazy to me!

Me too

I was starting to think I maybe just don''t know what''s what in the corporate world. Glad to see that that''s not the case, because it seems ridiculous to me.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:19:38 PM
Author: Octavia
Musey, another thing to consider is job security. I don''t know how ''safe'' his current position is, but he should keep in mind that, if he moves companies, he''ll probably lose any seniority he''s built up. Not that he should stay at his current position because of that -- especially with that huge a pay disparity -- but if he decides to go somewhere else he should be as certain as he can that the position will be around for as long as he wants it. It would just be a shame if he took a ''better'' position only to have the company go under or something.

That said, I think he should definitely still interview! If he doesn''t, then he can''t really make an informed decision about whether to stay at his current company or go somewhere else, and it''s too important a decision to make by default.

That''s a really good point, as well. Salary aside, he''s very highly valued at his company (which I find ironic), and they tell him that he''s indispensable. Which is another reason I''m confused at why they''re not willing to meet the competitive rate

but maybe they just plain can''t.

He enjoys that security, but it''s coming at the expense of our own security. We''re barely able to save these days. It''s just not working, esp. in a high cost of living area like LA.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:21:26 PM
Author: ChinaCat
From what you''ve said, there is no reason for him not to interview and see what offers he gets. Fear isn''t a good reason for NOT trying something. He always has a choice- he doesn''t have to accept any of the job offers if he decides he wants to stay. Options are always a good thing to have.

Definitely, and he''s planning to.

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:26:23 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/14/2009 5:23:27 PM

Author: FrekeChild

Date: 4/14/2009 5:06:29 PM

Author: bee*

That''s a pity that they won''t increase his salary about 20%. He should definitely go out there and interview. The perks seem to be good in the place that he''s at now but with a 40-60% rise in salary he could probably afford those things easily in a new job, even if they don''t offer them.

Ditto. I think it''s time to move on as well. I can''t believe they haven''t given him any other raises. That''s just crazy to me!

Me too

I was starting to think I maybe just don''t know what''s what in the corporate world. Glad to see that that''s not the case, because it seems ridiculous to me.

I would have presumed that all the companies would have kind of kept in line with each other salary wise-I know nothing about the corporate world either though!

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:18:49 PM
Author: Mara
there''s money and then there is quality of life. sometimes it''s worth it to take less money for better job quality of life (aka the perks you mention)....but you have to weigh that yourselves. is that worth 40-60%? i dont think so. maybe 20%. or sometimes you can find similar quality of job life for really NO loss in pay. that would be what i''d strive for.

i''d start setting up interviews, he should be looking around while he''s with this company. does he feel loyal to this company, knowing what he knows why would he stay? they obviously don''t value him as they are trying to work him into the ground for less money. and trust me if another guy LIKE HIM came along and was willing to do the same work for even LESS money, they''d can him in a second. he has to look out for #1 ... sounds like he has given them ample opps to own up to what they should be giving him. i''d have started looking a year ago or more. then again when i was out of college, my main priority was just learning as much as possible and clmibing the ladder. i stayed at each job 1 year for the next 3 companies, and then it was 2+ years and then just kept moving on...but that is very typical here in this area.

Yeah, I think that he is a little too laid-back for the corporate world

I don''t think ladder-climbing is on his radar. He''s learning, though. Me, on the other hand... my whole world is ladder climbing. If I haven''t moved up in the past 3 months, I''ve been too lazy. But then my career works quite differently.

I''m anxious to see what his interviews yield, as well as the semi-final word from the higher-ups at his company. So far it''s only been speculation about what they might be willing to do... but his boss is really going to bat for him, so, we''ll see.

 

[purrfectpear]

Actually there is a worst case scenario.

He interviews, the new places promises the moon and delivers, economy worsens and he''s the FIRST one out the door as the most recent to join the firm.

Been there, done that. I am constantly being courted by headhunters. Finally in 1997 I left my cushy aerospace job and took another for a substantial increase in salary. Economy sucked, and as I was the most recent hire and at the top of their pay scale, out I went. 4 months of new job searching, a year and a half into that job, rinse and repeat scenario. This went on for the next 3 companies while I longed for my old giant corporate job. In 2005 I rejoined aerospace and I''m here to tell you they will pry this job from my cold dead fingers. Dilbert be damned. Cube farm life is looking sweet to me

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:35:22 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Actually there is a worst case scenario.

He interviews, the new places promises the moon and delivers, economy worsens and he''s the FIRST one out the door as the most recent to join the firm.

Been there, done that. I am constantly being courted by headhunters. Finally in 1997 I left my cushy aerospace job and took another for a substantial increase in salary. Economy sucked, and as I was the most recent hire and at the top of their pay scale, out I went. 4 months of new job searching, a year and a half into that job, rinse and repeat scenario. This went on for the next 3 companies while I longed for my old giant corporate job. In 2005 I rejoined aerospace and I''m here to tell you they will pry this job from my cold dead fingers. Dilbert be damned. Cube farm life is looking sweet to me

Yeah, this was the job security worry that Octavia touched on. The companies he''s looking at are larger and more established than his current one, so if anything, his current company is more likely to hit hard times than the others. The good thing, though, is that his field is on the safer side.

It seems like a crapshoot when it comes to this particular scenario, and perhaps not the best way to make any decisions. Otherwise he''d be hiding scared with a pittance salary for the rest of his life!

 

[jet2ks]

There is little downside to interviewing. If nothing else, he gets to see what else is out there as far as pay, benefits, work environment. It also makes sure the resume is updated and interviewing skills are polished.

If he gets a job offer for 40% more, it is a more powerful leveraging tool with the current company than just asking for a raise. He may get a great job offer, he may figure out that he likes it where he is at right now.

I have a problem with the current company giving a "promotion" with no increase in pay. If you give someone more responsibility, compensate them in some way, either through pay or increased benefits.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:56:58 PM
Author: jet2ks

I have a problem with the current company giving a ''promotion'' with no increase in pay. If you give someone more responsibility, compensate them in some way, either through pay or increased benefits.

Me too, it just seems very unreasonable.

 

[musey]

Thank you all for your thoughts!

As I''ve said, we''re both quite new to this (me especially), so it''s helpful to hear all the different reactions.

 

[lliang_chi]

As much as he''s getting underpaid (I''m going to say it so please don''t flame me), in this economy, don''t bank on an automatic 40-60% jump in pay. He''ll probably get a pretty good bump up since he''s been paid so much lower, but it might not be 40%.

Also take into account all the benefits. E.g. cash bonuses, healthcare, FSA, 401K matching, pension, time off, etc and make sure he asks about them explicitly when he''s making his decisions. Definitely not the first round of interviews, but you guys need to take all of that into account.

Good luck.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 6:30:18 PM
Author: lliang_chi
As much as he's getting underpaid (I'm going to say it so please don't flame me), in this economy, don't bank on an automatic 40-60% jump in pay. He'll probably get a pretty good bump up since he's been paid so much lower, but it might not be 40%.

I'm no sure what you mean... the 40-60% is quoted from jobs that he's qualified for and/or being pursued for (not offers, but people who are seeking him out to come in for an interview). Are you saying that they would pay less than advertised after hiring? Isn't that fraudulent?

I was hoping you could also clarify my earlier question as to your statement, "don't spend the $$ before you get it." Was that a metaphor, or were you actually talking about spending money?

Thanks!

Also take into account all the benefits. E.g. cash bonuses, healthcare, FSA, 401K matching, pension, time off, etc and make sure he asks about them explicitly when he's making his decisions. Definitely not the first round of interviews, but you guys need to take all of that into account.

Good luck.

That's all the normal stuff to weigh, yes?

The things that he's actually having trouble with are less tangible... office environment, facilitation of continued education, employer confidence, etc.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 4/14/2009 5:04:07 PM
Author: musey

That makes sense - as a lot of the jobs he's been looking into require 3 years experience. Most of our friends have switched jobs a couple times a year after graduating, I don't know if that's a weird regional thing. He's the only one who's stuck it out, and feels disappointed that he's not being financially rewarded for doing so.

I feel like it's pretty typical to not be rewarded financially for sticking it out, unfortunately

Like Deco, said, they see you one way, and don't want to pay more. Especially when you start out young, I feel like there's this perception that an employee is young and inexperienced, and will always be young and inexperienced. No one notices how much that employee has completely grown and learned in their 3 years at the company; they still see you as "the intern" or "college hire" or whatever.

Good luck to your DH! Reassure him that there are a lot of people in his position (me included) so at least he's not alone.

ETA: I just thought of something else. If he sticks with the current job making 40-60% less than what he should (with no regular raises), then in 2, 4, 6 years, he could be even further behind. Say he's making $30k, but should be making $45k. In 5 years he should be up to $60k, but at his currently company he's only at $35k. A new job won't hire him for $60k at that point if they can get him for $50k because he's desperate to advance (after 8 years at a place that won't pay the going rate). I don't know if that makes sense ... I guess what I'm trying to say is that his salary now could affect his salary years down the line and he may never catch up. Just something to think about!

 

[musey]

Thanks, Elrohwen!

We're both learning a lot as we go.

 

[elrohwen]

You''re welcome!

Changing jobs at age 25 is near and dear to my heart right now, so I really feel what he''s going through. It''s not easy when you''re still young and don''t have years and years of experience behind you.