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How do I find a ring with Tiffany''s FIRE???

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KittyTiger

KittyTiger

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
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I would really like to own a ring life Tiffany & Co. with a fire like theirs, but not have to pay the their price. Would buying online give me much lower prices? And if so, what do I have to look for in the specs that will tell me if the diamond has that kind of a fire??? Please help..
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I would really like to own a ring life Tiffany & Co. with a fire like theirs, but not have to pay the their price. Would buying online give me much lower prices?
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Hi Barbug 408:



Tiffany does indeed have well cut stones, but you can get a better cut stone without the mark up...In the past their diamonds alone have been qouted up to 40% & higher than some of the finest Super Ideal Cut Hearts & Arrows Diamonds on the market...Buying online will give you much lower prices and you indeed will have access to a larger selection of ideal cut stones and vendors which have access to some of the most current technology in evaluating diamond cut. Internet vendors work with a lower overhead and some of the savings is passed on to the consumer...



And if so, what do I have to look for in the specs that will tell me if the diamond has that kind of a fire??? Please help..

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Well there are many pre-liminary tools available in evaluating cut....



Here's a few:



The HCA (Holloway Cut Advisor)..You can start here by getting access to your stones sarin data. When you get the data enter it into the HCA and it will give you feedback on whether your stone will be a good contendor in performing well in the areas of Fire, Brilliance, Scintillation.



There are reference charts which grade the cut quality of Diamonds on www.gemappraisers.com. These charts can also be used in conjunction with other methods to help aide in picking out some good posible contendors....



A real life tool which shows light leakage is the Ideal-Scope...There are sites which display these images of stones they are marketing which will give you a birds eye view of how your stone performs..



I would take time to read the Pricescope Tutorial on Diamond Cut...I would also take time to browse through www.GoodOldGold.com as it is full of comprehensive information for anyone interested in learning all about diamonds....



When you ask"And if so, what do I have to look for in the specs that will tell me if the diamond has that kind of a fire"



This question will be better understood after you do a little research and read the tutorials I mentioned...Yes, it will take a little time, but you will benefit by learning the little nuances of picking out the best stone that suites you...When your done reading and think your ready pick out a couple stones or just browse sites to see the different information offered and the different results rendered by similiar instruments evaluating a diamonds performance...



Regular contributors to this forum which post large quanities of information of stones they sell including Microscopic Photos, Brilliancescope Results, Scanned Gia/Ags Certs, Firescope/Idealscope/Lightscope Images, and the complete sarin data/megascope data of a particular stone are.....



www.superbcert.com (Barry on the Forum)



www.goodoldgold.com (Rhino on the Forum)



www.niceice.com (NiceIce on the Forum)



www.whiteflash.com (Lesley or DimonBob on the Forum)



There are more... these are just my favorites in no particular order, hopefully this is not an overload for you...

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If you have more questions please ask?/idealbb/images/smilies/wacko.gif



I think you will be very surprised that you can get a larger diamond with a better cut quality which performs better and can be drastically lower in price than purchasing aTiffany with the same specs..

 
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On 11/30/2003 2:59:12 AM barbug408 wrote:


I would really like to own a ring life Tiffany & Co. with a fire like theirs, but not have to pay the their price. Would buying online give me much lower prices? And if so, what do I have to look for in the specs that will tell me if the diamond has that kind of a fire??? Please help..
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Barbug,

I had two Tiffany & Co. solitaires. On the first, I spent a day in there comparing every stone in that size and setting and chose the one that sparkled best. I checked all the angles on the cert and only chose from the stones that had all the angles required for the HCA. I thought this stone was very firey under halogen lighting in the elevator, which is even more firey than near the counters. I wanted a *really* nice stone. Since it was being purchased for me and I didn't have a choice on where it was purchased from, I wanted the best that Tiffany's had to offer. This stone was eventually replaced by Tiffany for a larger stone of their choosing. (Basically do to a mistake on their behalf, I will spare you the long and painful story.
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) The specifications matched, and the stone was still ideal. However, in different lighting conditions, no fire, just white light. In the elevator, there was a little, but noticably less than my first. Back it went. They couldn't give me back my original stone in the original condition, so I bought online. My stone is *much* more firey now and I couldn't be happier with it. I think I spent more money, due to customs duties, conversion rates, etc., but this stone is much better in terms of fire. (I'm not sure that it was definitely more money, but I will check sometime.) Scintillation was better too. The only place Tiffany's stones truly looked nice was in-store. It was a little disappointing outside, IMHO. You could do much better with a vendor that provides information on fire, as in a BrillianceScope analysis, that you can at Tiffany's. As for less expensive, I'm sure it is in the U.S. Crossing the border to Canada, customs charges 25% on top of the actual cost, so for me, I think Tiffany is cheaper. Again, I must check that sometime. Moral of the story, I found something waaaayyyy better beyond the blue box.
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You might too.
 
Hi, Josh~~




Thanks for alll the great info. I will definitely do a little studying on my own.~~~ And I'll let you know how that goes....




Also, I found an Eightstart store near where I live. Do you think their prices are good with really good stones? Because it would be great if I could see the stone before I purchase it. And if not, maybe they could teach me a thing or two before I buy online also....




thanks!!




cynthia
 


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On 11/30/2003 3:51:49 PM barbug408 wrote:







Hi, Josh~~




Thanks for alll the great info. I will definitely do a little studying on my own.~~~ And I'll let you know how that goes....




Also, I found an Eightstart store near where I live. Do you think their prices are good with really good stones? Because it would be great if I could see the stone before I purchase it. And if not, maybe they could teach me a thing or two before I buy online also....




thanks!!




cynthia

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Well Barbug...I have an eightstar and it is beautiful...Your talking up to a 40% mark-up on their stones though....



It seems like you want to stretch your dollar and I must say that many Super-Ideals out on the market will offer you a great look. You can get a bigger Super-Ideal-Cut Hearts & Arrows Diamond for the same money without the Eightstar Price..Eightstar does have a unique look but a lot of the money for these stones has been generated from good marketing...



It has always been a debated topic about which diamond performs better (A top of the Line Super-Ideal Hearts & Arrows or an Eightstar)... They are both 2 unique looks that have their similiarities and their differences..



Whatever you decide to choose remember comparatively Eightstar is going to run you more..this is why I am pointing you in the direction of finding a Great Super-Ideal-Stone if your emphasis is on cut with saving the most money...



Personally I think seeing a stone on a personal level is great, but there are many sites which offer a lot of comprehensive data (I am of course biased because all my purchases have been through on-line vendors

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) which will offer you more info on your purchase as well as money back garauntees if you don't like your stone...
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Eight Star has a nice product, but a not so nice premium on it too. It is not impossible to get diamonds with simmilar light return as those at a somewhat better price. And yes, one should be able to see the diamond prior to purchase, I would think: how else? Either at a store of using the return policy of an internet seller, the stone should be infron tof you for the final judgement while you still have a choice.
 
VAL Wrote: It is not impossible to get diamonds with simmilar light return as those at a somewhat better price.




Hey Val...Eightstars are known for having incredible dispersion along with more pronounced broad coloration being returned to your eye.....




There are H&A stones which perform better visually in all categories...It's just not the light return but how it is being returned to your eye and the contrast a particular style of cut offers....
 

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On 11/30/2003 7:20:39 PM barbug408 wrote:




Hi, Josh~~~


What do you think of this one??


Cynthia...Your on the road to success..You've done well in your initial scouting...


Here are my comments...


The SuperBCert is an E in color and VS-1 clarity priced lower than the ACA F Color vs-1 clarity...


One is .03 carats larger than the other but compared to price you are still getting the same size diamond which is graded 1 color higher...


The SuperBCert has no variances between all the measured angles greater than .7..An example of precision cutting. The ACA stone is also a tight cut with similiar variances between the measured angles.


The five light views and bar graphs via the b-scope on the Super-B-Cert stone are phenominal...Firescope Image looks awesome too..


The ACA stone is georgeous...One site has more tech info on the stone, but that's not to say that the ACA stone won't perform just as well even better...


Both companies have strict quality control...If it was up to me I would purchase the SuperBCert...just for the fact that it is a color grade higher and lower in price...which would not apply to most, but if you were ever in a pinch the re-sale value on your stone would be higher in comparison to the price you are paying..(Really splitting hairs here)


Both companies have outstanding customer service and many testomonials along with pic's on this site...


Either way you have 2 winners...............
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haha.. great to know I'm going the right way. MM.... with the specs of these stones, do you think they have about the same quality as the tiffany's???




oh, can please help me compare the Superb Cert on these two then??




http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=409&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1 (one one i listed earlier)




and




http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=56&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1




by the way, do you sell diamonds also?






which one would you go for?


cynthia..


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I would make a gentlemen's bet they would definitely outperform Tiffany's stones......




Remember Tiffany's has well cut stones, but there are better cut stones out there and you have now entered that realm!
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hi, josh...




Thanks a lot for all your help...... you're really awsome...




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one other thing... can you go back to my previous message and help me compare those 2 diamonds both from superb cert... and let me know which one you would go for? and what do you think of their price?




do you sell diamonds?




Cynthia
 

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On 11/30/2003 8
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6 PM barbug408 wrote:




hi, josh...


Thanks a lot for all your help...... you're really awsome...


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one other thing... can you go back to my previous message and help me compare those 2 diamonds both from superb cert... and let me know which one you would go for? and what do you think of their price?


do you sell diamonds?


Cynthia

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Hey Cynthia..I am going to attach a block qoute for you from my previous thread..


Both companies have strict quality control...If it was up to me I would purchase the SuperBCert...just for the fact that it is a color grade higher and lower in price...which would not apply to most, but if you were ever in a pinch the re-sale value on the SuperBCert stone would be higher in comparison to the price you are paying for the ACA..(Really splitting hairs here)


No Cynthia..I do not sell diamonds...


I just have become an obsessed consumer helping others try to get the best out of their purchase../idealbb/images/smilies/twirl.gif


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I apologize Cynthia..I didn't see that you wanted me to compare one SuperBCert to the Other...




The larger stone has smaller variances between the measured angles but in a case when precision cutting is this close discussing other factors is more important...with that said the light performance results are very similiar..




Were comparing apples to apples now...
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I would talk with Barry and get his input on the specifics of either stone. Barry will have these stones on hand and be able to give you a professional assessment over the phone.......
 


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On 11/30/2003 8:14:51 PM barbug408 wrote:







wow... amazing... all this just to help people like us???






Yes Barbug..Just to help people like us...





Leonid has promoted a diverse atmosphere with this being one of his main objectives....
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If I were choosing between the two since the vs-2 is eye-clean, I would snatch it up for about the same price as the smaller e-vs1...
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On 11/30/2003 8:23:38 PM Colored Gemstone Nut wrote:



If I were choosing between the two since the vs-2 is eye-clean, I would snatch it up for about the same price as the smaller e-vs1...
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same for me.
You picked some winners there.
 
I'm looking at the BScope,




Between the White light, Color Light, and Scintillation,.... which is more important to the fire? Which gives it a rainbow sparkle when there's movement?




cynthia
 
I'm looking at the BScope,




Between the White light, Color Light, and Scintillation,.... which is more important to the fire? Which gives it a rainbow sparkle when there's movement?




cynthia
 
Hey Barbug,




I referenced this from an old thread for you..


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First of all, the different facets themselves have less to do with whether returned light is white or colored than with the angle at which the light passes through the facets. Basically we're talking about refraction and dispersion here.

Refraction is the bending (or changing of direction) of light as it passes from one material to another, and is caused by the different speeds at which light travels through different materials. If light passes from one material to another at an angle roughly perpendicular to the material (i.e. "straight through" the material) the light will not be bent. However, if the light passes from one material to another at an angle, the light will "bend" (actually, change direction) as it makes the transition. This is called refraction. The faster a wavelength of light moves (i.e. the higher its frequency), the less refraction it will exhibit as it passes from one material to another.

Dispersion is basically a function of refraction. Dispersion occurs when light is refracted at significant angles while passing from one material to another, causing the light to separate into its component colors. Basically, white light consists of all wavelengths of visible light (the full visible light spectrum) all traveling together. However, these wavelengths all travel at different speeds based on their frequency, so as they pass from one medium to another they will bend different amounts. This is the basic principle that causes white light to separate into its component colors while passing through a prism. Higher frequencies of light (toward the red end of the spectrum) will bend less as they pass from one material to another while lower frequencies (toward the violet end) will bend more, thus causing the different colors to spread from each other.

So, the light that passes through a diamond will be returned as white light (brilliance) if the angle at which the light passes through the diamond remains roughly perpendicular to the surface of the diamond at the point at which it makes the transitions, while light that passes through the diamond at an angle will break into its component colors (fire). Thus, since the crown facets tend to have light passing through them at significant angles, they will predictably tend to break the light into component colors more intensely, while light passing straight through the table will stay "white" and be returned as brilliance. This is assuming a light source that is more or less directly perpendicular to the diamonds table. Light entering at angles will follow the laws of physics and be broken into colors according to the refractive index of the materials and the angles of travel, so while light passing through the table is most closely associated with brilliance, any facets that have white light traveling "straight" through them will be seen as brilliance.

This situation indeed does suggest that fire and brilliance are somewhat at odds with each other for a couple of reasons, the first being simply that white light (being made up of all component colors) is more intense than dispersed light, and thus will tend to drown out the more subtle colors (which is why I mentioned soft candlelight as a good way to see fiery performance). The other reason is that the optical conditions that cause brilliance also necessarily reduces fire (meaning, any light passing "straight through" the diamond is light that isn't passing through at an angle), which is sort of what you were talking about when you mentioned the idea of a diamond with a large table having more brilliance while smaller tables would yield more fire. It's important to note though that the table size alone is just one part of the equation. The angles of the facets have a great deal to do with the way the light interacts with the diamond, so simply saying that a diamond with a large table will be more brilliant isn't exactly accurate.

In conclusion, the sum "visual performance" of a diamond is ultimately a personal preference, so there will always be differences of opinion as to whether white or colored light is more important. Some people like lots of brilliance while others like lots of fire. Tolkowsky famously tried to strike the most pleasing balance between the two, but ultimately it comes down to what the viewer likes to see.


There is a section on the Pricescope tutorial in helping you to also get a general idea of Fire, Brilliance and scintillation.../idealbb/images/smilies/wavey.gif
 
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On 11/30/2003 11:01:45 PM barbug408 wrote:





I'm looking at the BScope,




Between the White light, Color Light, and Scintillation,.... which is more important to the fire? Which gives it a rainbow sparkle when there's movement?




cynthia
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color light for fire.
Scintillation for color change but it cant do it by itself the others are just as important.
If its not returning a lot of light you wont see it.
 
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On 11/30/2003 7:53:06 PM barbug408 wrote:


haha.. great to know I'm going the right way. MM.... with the specs of these stones, do you think they have about the same quality as the tiffany's???


oh, can please help me compare the Superb Cert on these two then??


http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=409&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1 (one one i listed earlier)


and


http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=56&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1


by the way, do you sell diamonds also?



which one would you go for?

cynthia..

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I'm sure they would both be better than Tiffany.
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Everyone gave you very good advice. I'd go with the 2.30 as well. I like the Brilliance Scope results of the 2.01, but the HCA is slightly better (1.3 as opposed to 1.8 with very good colour), and the cut has slightly better proportions. I can definitely notice the difference between my stone and both Tiffany stones. Considering I compared with every stone in the store in my range, I can say that mine is the best of the bunch, IMHO.
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Here was my stone's Brilliance Scope results.

http://www.superbcert.com/images/products/BScope/619.jpg

My boyfriend noticed the difference too. Don't tell him I said so, but *that's* saying something!!!!
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Many more rainbows, a lot more colour.
 
hey, princess~~




wow!! yours is awsome!!! a gift from your boyfriend?????




well, I finally decided on another stone that's a little less $$$....




Superb Cert took it off their site to save it for me, but I wrote them to see if they can put it back on .. so I can let you guys give me some opinion and advice....




Cynthia
 


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On 12/2/2003 3:14:16 AM barbug408 wrote:







hey, princess~~




wow!! yours is awsome!!! a gift from your boyfriend?????




well, I finally decided on another stone that's a little less $$$....




Superb Cert took it off their site to save it for me, but I wrote them to see if they can put it back on .. so I can let you guys give me some opinion and advice....




Cynthia

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Hey Cynthia..The only advice I would give you at this point is Barry has a money back garauntee...Get the sizing right the first time because you won't be sending the stone back...





What size..color..etc.. did you decide on and what setting?
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hey Josh~~~
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I decided on a 2.00 vs1 G color setting... for $20913.20 and the platinum 6 prong classic tiffany setting.....




And since I'm buying this for myself... it's going on my middle finger a size 5...




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cynthia
 
Nice...Right at the 2 carat mark and with a "G" color you are getting a good value. ..
 
I've never spent $20,000 on myself just like that....




Gives me this weird rush everytime I think about it, ....




and oh, I've already fallen in love with something I haven't even recieved yet!!!




cynthia
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Good for you barbug..I can relate well to this..I am the type of person that enjoys doing alot of things for other people..When it comes to spending on myself...(Makes me feel the same way)..
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Hmm... they said they have the ring taken down to save it for me.. and won't be posting it up again... so here are the specs....




Josh: What is Culet? And what should the range be? Cuz some of the rings I've been looking at says it has NO culet....




okay, here are the specs:




2.00 carat / G color / vs1




Depth= 61%


Table= 56%


Crown Angle=34.4%


Pvillion Angle=40.8%


Culet=.5%




Price: $20,913-




The HCA I got is a 1.2 if I did it right...




What do you guys think????


I'll be sending the wire once I get the "okay"






Oh, one other thing, I will be having it set before it gets sent out to me. I can still get a good appraisal like that? Or is it recommended I have the stone sent loose to me?




Thanks everyone!!!!/idealbb/images/smilies/appl.gif




Cynthia
 
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