How do consumers view diamond certificates and their impact on prices?

[pricescope]

How do you view diamond certificates (GIA, IGI, EGL, HRD etc) and their impact on prices? In other words, do you believe a diamond without a certificate should be cheaper, do you think every diamond must be certified, is a certificate a guarantee of the quality of the diamond etc?

Many of you probably read about our grading survey and the following discussion. Still, how important the certificate for you? Would you buy a diamond without it? Would you trust an opinion of reputable vendor or independent appraiser instead?

 

[strmrdr]

I dont trust anyone unless they earn it.

The following is my opinion:

AGS is the lab that has shown the most backbone and has done a lot for consumers lately.
From improving the cut standards for rounds to finally making high performance princess cut diamonds available from eventually a lot of suppliers.

GIA on the other hand is seen as part of the problem.
They are secretive and in the industries pocket way too much.

All the other certs with the possible exception of hrd and egl-usa are a joke.

Would I buy an uncerted diamond?
Yes if it was under $300 and came from a trusted vendor or was on the used market at a steep discount.
Would I buy a $10000 diamond uncerted?
No way no how.

 

[valeria101]

These little papers are one diabolical invention

... but since certs are here to stay, higher prices for certified goods makes sense. I see this as some sort of transactions cost: one gets to pay for safety instead of just taking some risk. IMO, lab reports fall short of an expert appraisal - with a lab report infront, pricing and market value considerations are not covered.

 

[fire&ice]

The paper means absolutely nothing to me. It''s just a toy to play with. However, it is very helpful when searching for a diamond, especially over the net. An independent appraisal from a GG is my document to have.

I don''t think any lab has carte blanche on purdy. When searching for my 3c, I saw some AGS, GIA, IGI & bought an EGL. My EGL diamond traded for considerably less than the GIA''s & AGS listed on line & in person.

Though, as an individual selling a diamond, the cert maybe important. But, I don''t plan on selling.

 

[robbe]

to the last part of leonid''s question;
the purpose of a grading report is not only a matter of accurate and reliable description. it is a necessity in order to maintain and uphold consumer confidence in the products we sell. besides grading accurately within accepted international standards, today, a reputable laboratory must be able to indentify hpht-processed diamonds as well as synthetic diamonds. regarding positive identification of treatments and other types of manipulations, there are 3 categories of labs: 1/ those who have invested in knowledge and appropriate instruments for detection (and make it available to the next category). examples to my knowledge are gia, igi, hrd, egl-usa(may be others but i don''t use them so i don''t know). 2/ those who could not affort the instruments but do their very best and collaborate with other labs or research centers. these are usually smaller labs who operate in one particular area and who''s reports are not recognized internationally. 3/ those who don''t care. plenty!
"is a certificate a guarantee of the quality of the diamond"
a certificate is supposed to be an accurate opinion of the quality of the diamond and attesting to the origin of the material.

robbe

 

[Maxine]

I think that the cert serves as a good guideline when purchsing a diamond. However, I think that the independent appraisal is as important or more important. I want to pay for what the diamond IS, not what a piece of paper says it is....
But that said, most certs form reputable agencies hold pretty true....so I''d rather have a trusted lab or trusted individual tell me what I am getting....TRUST and REPUTABLE are the important words, either way......l

 

[hoorray]

I don''t put more importance in a cert vs an appraisal from someone I trust and believe to be good at what they do. Theoretically I''d buy an uncerted stone.

However, the reality is that certs are useful in the buying process, bringing an equalizer (as much as they can with all the existing known variances) between different vendor''s stones. Once I own the stone, I couldn''t care less about the cert, but it helps create an "apples to apples" shopping environment, which is important. And it gives consumers a baseline to use in the evaluation process since appraisals are typically after the fact or after the narrowing of choices at least.

And then there is always the question of "if it is such a great stone, why doesn''t it have a cert in this day and age.....? " Certs have become a requirement in this market just because of their ubiquity.

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/30/2005 7:50:45 AM
Author: strmrdr
I dont trust anyone unless they earn it.

The following is my opinion:

AGS is the lab that has shown the most backbone and has done a lot for consumers lately.
From improving the cut standards for rounds to finally making high performance princess cut diamonds available from eventually a lot of suppliers.

GIA on the other hand is seen as part of the problem.
They are secretive and in the industries pocket way too much.

All the other certs with the possible exception of hrd and egl-usa are a joke.

Would I buy an uncerted diamond?
Yes if it was under $300 and came from a trusted vendor or was on the used market at a steep discount.
Would I buy a $10000 diamond uncerted?
No way no how.

Yep - thats about the way I see it.

 

[lizzyd]

Strmrdr hit the nail on the head.

Even if a stone (graded or ungraded) passed the eagle eye inspection of my independent appraiser (Martin Haske), there''s no guarantee it would come back from the GIA with the same grading characteristics that he had identified. There''s a greater chance that AGS would grade to the same stringent standards as Marty. I don''t trust any of the others.

 

[baltneu]

A friend of mine who is in the daimond bus (a 47th Street type business in NYC), said they do no have certs on diamonds under 1ct, because it drives the price up $200-$300 more, and for competitive purposes he does not make sense for him.

 

[Regular Guy]

As Paul has helped to review here, I think that at least in part, a cert may give an indication about the diamond, based on the mind of the owner who sought out the certification agency.

For example, when I bought my diamond recently, my query to the vendor was...if it is ideal, why wasn't it certed by AGS? When Jim went to look at it, I think he experienced some surprise with me when he saw the AGS2 marking his OGI came up with.

There may not be too much to that...as I think Nice Ice carries a lot of GIA graded options somehow, and they don't seem to be the worse for it.

Although the diamond study done by the Pricescopers here suggests good value can be had from, for example, EGL USA, I know that with GIA & AGS, a) I know what I'm getting (at least for what's specified), b) the Quick search doesn't seem to constrain to EGL-USA anyway, and c) again, although Denver Appraiser wisely says, "don't buy the paper, buy the diamond," since it was not provided to GIA or AGS, I wonder why.

 

[Mara]

I would prefer GIA or AGS certed stones by reputation and AGS over GIA because of the additional infrormation on the cert, but I would not throw an EGL certed stone out of bed if it checked out with a Sarin and an independent appraisal. EGL stones are cheaper because of their slightly iffy reputation, so if one can find an EGL stone and is willing to do the legwork to confirm what the cert says, I would definitely consider it, it could be a great deal.

In terms of purchase, I would purchase a small (under .50c) diamond uncerted but with Sarin information, but anything above would have to be certed at least with a mini.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/30/2005 4:40

2 PM
Author: Mara
I would prefer GIA or AGS certed stones by reputation and AGS over GIA because of the additional infrormation on the cert, but I would not throw an EGL certed stone out of bed if it checked out with a Sarin and an independent appraisal. EGL stones are cheaper because of their slightly iffy reputation, so if one can find an EGL stone and is willing to do the legwork to confirm what the cert says, I would definitely consider it, it could be a great deal.

In terms of purchase, I would purchase a small (under .50c) diamond uncerted but with Sarin information, but anything above would have to be certed at least with a mini.

I''m pretty much on the same page as Mara.

On a MAJOR stone....engagement or other stone over $2k....being sold at roughly market value, I''d want a grading report. I''d value AGS most of all, followed by GIA. I''d consider an EGL stone providing I could verify it independently prior to purchase and providing I had NO intent to resell.

On goods under .50, I''d easily buy any stone without a grading report PROVIDED I like the idealscope/sarin and it passes muster with Brian Gavin, especially if it means saving some cash. I trust his eyes and judgment implicitly. Same for a steeply discounted larger stone.....if I could verify it with Brian and/or Rich Sherwood, I''d comfortably buy a report-less stone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i would buy a non cert stone up to $500 or .25 ct.i understand isn''t worth for the vendor to get a cert in those case.for bigger stone i will only buy GIA/AGS stones with alot of infor,report,pictures,etc.it doesn''t matter if you agree or disagree with the grading on the cert because,when the stone is sold, it will be sold base on that grade.