How am I supossed to deal with his Bachelor Party

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/25/2008 2:43:48 PM
Author: musey
My FI suggested a joint bachelor/bachelorette party in Vegas with friends, so we''ll be partying together all weekend. If he wanted the stereotypical bachelor party, strippers and all, I would have to ask him: ''Who ARE you and what have you done with my FI??!'' Still, if that''s what he wanted, that''s what he''d get. I wouldn''t be super-excited about it, but it is HIS party... and I trust him not to violate the trust we''ve built.

I wanted to do the guys/girls night in Vegas too, but we decided it would be really expensive. I figured that the girls could go see "Thunder from Down Under" and the guys could go see some naked girl show and we could meet up afterwards. But, sadly, it won''t happen.

I''m a big advocate for the Bachelor''s party. BF and I''ve talked about it before, and he said that he wouldn''t mind having one, but that he doesn''t have enough guy friends to really make it a party. And he can''t drink. So what will probably happen is that he and his friends and maybe my guy friend will probably sit around drinking Kool Aid and Mountain Dew while playing video games. While I go out and get drunk with my girls. But if he wanted a stripper, I''d be all for it. I''d just make him watch "Very Bad Things" first. link

If you don''t trust his friends, I think you might have an issue on your hands...

 

[allycat0303]

oops, double post.

 

[allycat0303]

Blah. I hate this whole topic. In montreal, (maybe in the US too) I don''t know, strip clubs are all about lap dances. AND I KNOW my guy''s friends will be buying him a lap dance, and it annoys me to think of some girl rubbing her naked body all over my guy''s face. Somehow does not make me think about getting married. He knows it''s something I really don''t agree with. And I do think that although alchol is not an inducement to cheating, I think we can all agree that drinking can lower judgement (I''m not talking about tipsy but rather very, very drunk) maybe you end up doing things you wouldn''t normally do.

My whole way of dealing with it has been to say, strippers are ok for him, but if it''s ok for him, I''m going to have a male stripper too (which I have zero intention of having, but I''m not about to tell him that.) He seems to adamently oppose to that idea. Which is funny because strip clubs are ''''just something guys do and it doesn''t mean anything" but that for some reason me being at a strip club isn''t the same thing [

 

[gtn]

I never really thought about the Bachelor party. I guess because my FI doesn''t like the typical "bachelor party". In fact he usually declines invites to those kind of things. I have also seen him and all of his friends drunk and I know i can trust him.

I guess the most important thing to do is talk to your FI

 

[gtn]

I never really thought about the Bachelor party. I guess because my FI doesn''t like the typical "bachelor party". In fact he usually declines invites to those kind of things. I have also seen him and all of his friends drunk and I know i can trust him.

I guess the most important thing to do is talk to your FI

 

[Gypsy]

Lemme tell ya a story.

John's best friend got married 4 years ago. John was co-best man with the groom's rich skeevie brother. Said brother rented out a nightclub in NYC hired a professional sex show, girl on girl, AND hired strippers to give all the guys lap dances (we were NOT pleased to be informed of these plans or how much we had to chip in for them). But well, they all went. I stayed at the brides house that night. She went to bed, I stayed up. They came home. Both fuzzy and drunk and talking about the show. Told me all about it. I noticed a welt on grooms head. Apparently a projectile had been launched from one of the women's...*clears throat*... and hit the groom in the head. Wild party. Neither of them got lap dances. In fact the brother, skeevie though he was, had already warned the strippers that his brother was devoted to his bride to be and that they shouldn't bother him. Of course a couple of them tried, and both John and the groom turned them away to the waiting arms of someone who was eager for their attentions. They both had fun. Had a LOT fo opportunity to do whatever they wanted. And you know what? They did nothing.

The groom told me the next morning that the best part of the night was crawling into be with his future wife, and knowing for sure that she was the one for him and always would be. Sheepishly said, and with a hang over the next morning. But he was sincere, and I knew it.

John said much the same to me. Although he said the VERY best part of the night for HIM was when the groom told me how he got the welt on his forhead and my reaction to it. I was just a LITTLE shocked.

If he loves you honey, and it's meant to be. All the opportunity in the world will net nothing. If he's inclined to cheat, even with NO opportunity, he'll find a way. That's just the way it is. And there's nothing you can do at this point to control it.

 

[FrekeChild]

Well said Gypsy!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 2/25/2008 5:38:40 PM
Author: Gypsy
Lemme tell ya a story.


John''s best friend got married 4 years ago. John was co-best man with the groom''s rich skeevie brother. Said brother rented out a nightclub in NYC hired a professional sex show, girl on girl, AND hired strippers to give all the guys lap dances (we were NOT pleased to be informed of these plans or how much we had to chip in for them). But well, they all went. I stayed at the brides house that night. She went to bed, I stayed up. They came home. Both fuzzy and drunk and talking about the show. Told me all about it. I noticed a welt on grooms head. Apparently a projectile had been launched from one of the women''s...*clears throat*... and hit the groom in the head. Wild party. Neither of them got lap dances. In fact the brother, skeevie though he was, had already warned the strippers that his brother was devoted to his bride to be and that they shouldn''t bother him. Of course a couple of them tried, and both John and the groom turned them away to the waiting arms of someone who was eager for their attentions. They both had fun. Had a LOT fo opportunity to do whatever they wanted. And you know what? They did nothing.


The groom told me the next morning that the best part of the night was crawling into be with his future wife, and knowing for sure that she was the one for him and always would be. Sheepishly said, and with a hang over the next morning. But he was sincere, and I knew it.


John said much the same to me. Although he said the VERY best part of the night for HIM was when the groom told me how he got the welt on his forhead and my reaction to it. I was just a LITTLE shocked.

If he loves you honey, and it''s meant to be. All the opportunity in the world will net nothing. If he''s inclined to cheat, even with NO opportunity, he''ll find a way. That''s just the way it is. And there''s nothing you can do at this point to control it.

Brava Gypsy! That is what I was going for, but you did it in a much nicer more entertaining way!

 

[bee*]

Date: 2/25/2008 5:38:40 PM
Author: Gypsy

John said much the same to me. Although he said the VERY best part of the night for HIM was when the groom told me how he got the welt on his forhead and my reaction to it. I was just a LITTLE shocked.

You obviously haven''t been to the banana bar in Amsterdam then

 

[Gypsy]

*Takes a bow*

I have learned SOMETHING in the nine years we''ve been together, ya know. LOL. I''ve got a good man. And I have to trust him, and myself. That doesn''t mean it''s easy. There''s a reason *I* was the one who was waiting up that night. I was worried. But the bride knew her groom, and so she just went to bed, and slept, confident in her choice. That''s why SHE was getting married then, and I was just thinking about it. I wasn''t ready. I am now. But then... I''m a slow learner. LOL.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/25/2008 2:48:37 PM
Author: musey

Date: 2/25/2008 2:46:02 PM

Author: aprilcait


IMHO, even though it might be fun, I think bachelor and bachelorette parties are a bit of an antiquated tradition.

I agree. People date for way too long for it to inherently make sense anymore. Back when 'courtships' lasted under a year, sure, but not when we're all dating (and even living with) our future spouses for years and years beforehand!

I totally agree. My FI is a nerd, and so am I honestly. So if we do anything, it will consist of watching nerdy movies and junk food (him with his nerd guy friends and me with my nerd girl friends, haha). But seriously, if he was demanding a bachelor party like that, it'd be enough for me to reconsider the wedding. I just think it's ridiculous, disrespectful, and inappropriate. That's just my opinion.

ETA: I agree that the office is more frightening, but I am always more afraid of women than of him. Because honestly, I don't believe he'd ever cheat on me, but he is oblivious to when women are flirting with him.

 

[julabean]

I agree with everyone who has said that, ultimately, your man is responsible for the behavior on his bachelor party night as much as he is responsible for his behavior any other time. And that if that is not clear to him, you need to make it clear. If he is known to have hard core partying ways in the past and think he''s justified to revisit them for one night of his bachelor party, I would be wary, too. What you need him to understand is that if you trust him as much as you say you do, he shouldn''t think that kind of behavior is acceptable. I don''t mean to be harsh, but that''s a conversation you and him should have and one that both of you understand if it is an issue.

Have you talked to him about what kind of party he wants? My FI is going golfing and then going to one of his favorite restaurants for dinner and hanging out at the restaurant''s bar afterwards. Sure, he''ll probably be hungover the next day, but I am not going to lay awake thinking about what bad behavior he may be getting into.

Oh, sunnyd: As awesome as bright lights and 5 feet ordinances would have been, that piece of legislation didn''t actually pass in King County. Alcohol can''t be served at stripclubs, but people can still get as many lapdances as they want/can afford.

 

[diamondfan]

I think the locale is really secondary. As I said, if a man is prone to cheat, he is going to find a way. He can be around hot girls all week or go on business trips with them. Sure, some guess might think the B party is the neutral zone, what happens here stays here last hurrah, and be able to deal with cheating in that situation. Maybe it would truly end there. But I would tend to think it is just a rationalization and I would not want to be with someone like that, assuming I knew it. Trust is the basic cornerstone of any relationship, plain and simple. Once that starts to disappear, it is the beginning of the end in my view. Even if you do not know, somehow, the harm can still be done, and over time the relationship can feel the effects. I guess I just do not know why a guy thinks getting drunk and letting strippers rub themselves all over him is some rite of passage or necessary. And I bet you a guy that would do it would not be thrilled if he fiancee got drunk and had male strippers all over her! Yes, the infamous double standard alive and well!

 

[laine]

Most of the responses have focused on trusting the FI, but the OP has pushed the blame to his friends, so here is my take on that side of things:

You''ve said you trust FI, but your concern is his friends. I know there are guys out there who will intentionally do awful things (and we''ll assume FIs friends are such guys), like get the groom black-out drunk and toss him into bed with a girl. Sure, he could no longer control his actions at that point, so in that sense, its not his fault, but if you go back a step, he chose to go out with said friends, so it is his fault.

If FI''s friends are really that bad, then FI is either the most oblivious person in the world and will be unknowingly dragged into debauchery, or (the more likely scenario), he knows how bad they are. He knows what sort of things they do at bachelor parties, or to friends, or maybe how they treat women, or appreciate relationships. Chances are he knows what they''re like, which means he knows how things will likely go on at his bachelor party, which means that by agreeing to go, he is essentially consenting to all afore-mentioned bad things. (I would also add that I''d be a little concerned about FI''s values if he chooses to hang out with such friends) My point is, you can''t just blame the friends, it still comes back to FI.

 

[iheartscience]

Well, my fiance has no desire to go to a strip club and most of his friends would not be into the idea, either, which is probably why I like my fiance so much! I do think you need to be able to trust your fiance, but I also know basically firsthand how out of control bachelor parties can get.

A few years ago, a good guy friend of mine who I worked with was getting married and he was kind of youngish-he was around 25, and all of his friends were around the same age or younger, and were totally stoked on a bachelor party. They hired a couple of strippers to come to someone's house and put on a show. I worked with the groom and all his friends a lot and so I heard all about exactly what went down.

I won't go into nitty gritty details, but it was not really a strip show so much as a sex show. The groom got completely hammered and actually ended up doing some disgusting things with the strippers. Things that, if my fiance ever did, I would seriously break up with him over. I should also point out that the groom's own father came to the bachelor party...wow. Needless to say, the groom was very embarrassed and did feel bad about what happened, but you can't take things back, obviously.

One of the bride and groom's mutual guy friends told the bride (after the wedding) what happened at the bachelor party because he thought it was funny and didn't think she would care, and needless to say, she was super pissed at the groom. They're still together, but I think she's a lot more tolerant than she should be...and definitely more tolerant than I am.

And I really never would have thought my friend, the groom, would have done what he did. So I think there definitely is some sort of group mentality that goes on, and when huge amounts of alcohol are involved, stuff can get out of hand pretty quickly.

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/25/2008 6:45:05 PM
Author: julabean

Oh, sunnyd: As awesome as bright lights and 5 feet ordinances would have been, that piece of legislation didn''t actually pass in King County. Alcohol can''t be served at stripclubs, but people can still get as many lapdances as they want/can afford.

Here in our part of Texas... the all nude strip clubs are BYOB... does anyone else see an issue with that??? LOL However, the all nude, are NOT the places I want Chris going, I''d be more worried about what he might come home with, than what actually happened at the club.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I do believe there are people who can''t control themselves when they are drunk. I personally was the victim of a sexual assult from a close friend who was too drunk to remember what happend. I still blame him though because people who lose that much control when drunk shouldn''t drink. If you believe your FI is one of these people, then you need to have a long talk. Otherwise, you should either trust him or reconsider the marriage.

On a more pleasant note, my FI doesn''t want a party but with three brothers, he will probably get one. We have agreed he can go to a burlesque club. Nudity, but in a fun way, no lap dances and bathrooms that won''t give him diseases. I have absolutely no problem with this as I trust him completely.

 

[Haven]

I think you''ve gotten great advice. I can''t say I understand the concern about your FI''s friends, as I can''t imagine marrying a man who would a) allow himself to lose control of, well, himself, and b) have friends who don''t value his relationship and care so little about him that they wouldn''t have a problem jeopardizing something so important.

 

[diamondfan]

If that is the type of crowd he surrounds himself with, it does not seem too great. He should be able to communicate with them. He is an adult, no one can force him to hang with guys that might be casual or nonchalant about leading him into a bad zone. Hanging out, having a bit of fun, that is all fine, but things can spiral out of control pretty quickly. Some guys think nothing of cheating, if they love their wife and go home to her, no harm no foul. (I had a conversation with a guy about this recently). I think that is nasty. Forgetting about disease transmission, it just denigrates the whole concept of being married, which presumes fidelity. I may be a bit old fashioned, and if two people are in a relationship and do not wish to be monogamous, fine. Their choice, not anything I would ever agree to. And to be in a couple and be faithful and think the guy is too and he isn''t? Not cool.

I think if you tell him it is his friends who cause you concern, he might argue with you that they are fine, they would not do that. I think you can only state your concerns and have faith, if you make it so he cannot have one I do not think that removes the overall issue...but I think you can certainly go on record clearly about your views and the consequences.

 

[FrekeChild]

I was just thinking about the office thing...

BF is a grad student who teaches a Stats class. He always has several of his students coming in for help, both male and female. However, there are a lot of female students who don''t understand the boundaries, and have come on to him big time. One came in wearing a short skirt, low cut shirt and heels sat in front of him with her legs practically spread, moved her chair close and leaned towards him. He told me all about it afterwards and was laughing at how she was trying to use her sexuality to raise her grade. This is when I began the campaign to get a pic of me in his office.

Stupid 18-22 year old hussies who can''t do Stats.

So I get the office thing. And for the record, I trust him completely. It''s those stupid girls and I just want to smack.

 

[kelpie]

You don't trust him, or you wouldn't be worried about it. You should both have it on the table what is acceptable behavior and what is not. I'm having trouble relating, if you guys are getting married there should not be any question that he could sacrifice your relationship for a night of behavior that you'd find grossly acceptable. My 2 cents is: trust him more, but admit to him about your insecurities and that he needs to do better job of allaying your fears.

rereading this, it comes off as really harsh but please just take it as well meaning objective commentary that you can dismiss as "what does some stranger on the internet know?!?!"

ETA: Oh and I WAS a stripper...trust me, we are not looking to get our meat hooks into your man. Bachelor parties are our least favorite customers. They are obnoxious, entitled, and think you'll work for free because it's their big night (at least the kind that end up in strip clubs). Don't worry that he'll cheat on you with a stripper, strippers are professional entertainers doing what they are paid to do, which is booty jiggle. For my guy, I see nothing wrong with letting him enjoy a little booty jiggle if he so pleases.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Mellowy...you''re getting married! I wouldn''t give his Bachelor Party one minute of thought. It''s easy to fear the worst when you hear "party" "alcohol" "New York City" and "bachelor" in the same sentence...but you need to remember that you are marrying this man and he is marrying you. Your relationship is obviously his priority seeing as how he is willing to take it to the next level and in that fact alone you need to find comfort.

I am sure he will respect your relationship, as you will too. This party is a gift from his friends to celebrate and remember all the fun they had once upon a time, and it is also a send off to him as he enters into married life.

Relax. Breathe. Enjoy. Have fun with your friends...get your mani''s or pedi''s or facials or dance all night on the bar to 80''s music....whatever you do, don''t get caught up on the "what if''s" focus on the "what is"...and what is, is that you''re getting married!!!!

 

[melpla]

I have to agree with SarahLovesJS. Having strippers grinding on your man is ridiculous, disrespectful, and just plain wrong. For me, it''s not about trust at all--even if he "sat on his hands" all night it would be disrespectful, absurd, and wrong. I think it''s wrong for him to VIEW that up close and personal. I don''t want nasty ho''s all over my fiance when he''s not in strip clubs, so why is it suddenly okay in a strip club? I also disagree with the people who say alcohol doesn''t make people cheat. I''ve seen it happen many, many times in my younger years, especially with agressive tramps who don''t respect that a guy has a girlfriend. Guys think with their penises, girls, especially when they are totally drunk off their asses. Even when they really love someone...it happpens.

You absolutely have the right to state what you are comfortable with and not comfortable with. Don''t give into pressure from men (or other women who are okay with it)if you have a problem with strippers.

 

[Fancy605]

mellowy7, I think I understand where you are coming from here.

I think you may very well trust your fiance. You just don''t trust him drunk under the influence of guys who think they know what "fun" is. I think the issue here is that maybe you are uncomfortable with the situation he is putting himself into in the first place. There is an old saying that goes something like, "don''t put your toe in the water if you don''t want to get wet."

Here''s how I dealt with the issue: My now husband told me that his groomsmen were considering taking him to a strip club. He sees it as a bit of harmless fun--almost like a joke. A lot of guys somehow do not consider going to strip clubs and receiving lap dances and such cheating. Some women don''t consider it cheating and don''t mind if their men participate in such activities. Well, THIS girl does consider it just as bad as cheating. I never thought I would be the type to refuse to compromise on any issue, but I had to tell him my feelings on the subject. I told him that if that was the sort of fun he needed to have, then I had misjudged his character. I told him that I was not sure I could walk down the aisle and marry someone who went to a strip club and participated in making any sort of physical contact with strippers. At this point in my life, that is not something I see as a joke, but as tasteless, tacky, and trashy. It is something that would make me feel hurt. And it is something that I refuse to support and that I do not want my significant other supporting. Once he understood that, he completely nixed that plan. He ended up having a guys night in with his buddies.

Now, it did take me a while to get him to understand my perspective because when he initially mentioned it, I got very defensive and acted irrationally(which was a mistake). It wasn''t until I had time to calm down and speak with him rationally that he understood my perspective. So, my advice is figure out EXACTLY what you are comfortable with him participating in and have a discussion in which you calmly, bluntly state those feelings.

 

[kelpie]

Date: 2/25/2008 11:05:34 PM
Author: melpla
I don''t want nasty ho''s all over my fiance when he''s not in strip clubs, so why is it suddenly okay in a strip club?

Melpla, as a former stripper I find your comment extremely offensive and demeaning to women. I was a stripper, yes, but now guess what? I''m about to be a frickin'' M.B.A. and at no point was I or my colleagues "nasty hos". We hard hard working women who have a different comfort level with our sexuality and are very principled! I never would have achieved my educational goals had I not been able to make a comfortable living while in school. Seriously, shame on you.

 

[mjso]

I guess I''m in the minority here. I''ve gone to strip clubs with my FI. And I wouldn''t have a problem if he went alone...in fact I''ve gone to them without him. I''ve spent more time in a strip club than most of my guy friends. (I did a research project on strippers after college). I just don''t see it as that big of a deal. Pretty much every stripper I met was much more "average girl" than "crack ho". A lot of them are young and/or single moms and this is the best money they can get. The bathrooms aren''t disease ridden and the strip club we frequented the most served the best steak in town (according to FI, I don''t eat red meat).

I trust my FI completely during his bachelor party, if they have strippers, then they have strippers. So he sees some nekkid boobs, I''m still the one he loves in the end. Its not like he''s running off with the strippers (and who says they''d want him anyway!) Sure, I don''t want him hooking up with other people, but I don''t see going to see some strippers/getting a few lap dances as the same thing.

I actually kind of want to go to his bachelor party cause I think it will be fun, but of course I won''t...seeing as that would kind of...be sort of strange.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Idon''t think this is about trust as much as it is about respect. It took a while in our relationship before FI and I both understood this. It isn''t that I think he can''t or won''t control himself. It is that if I feel uncomfortable with him paying money to watch or touch other naked women, and I set that as the boundary, and he can''t respect it, it is his issue, not mine. I need not adjust what I am comfortable with simply because other people may be okay with it. I think the wedding and sex industries have invested a lot of time and money in making women think this is really about trust and that letting a guy go to a strip club or hire dancers or worse for a ''last hurrah'' is some sort of gift that we as women can give our men. this is seriously degrading to everyone involved, men and women alike. It is insulting to my intelligence for me to pretend that something is OK when I clearly know it is not. It is not about what other people do -- his friends, your friends, PSers, etc. It is not about what we or they think is OK. It is about what you think is OK. And I don''t believe that what is OK should be any different on that day than on any other day before or after your wedding. Period. I think it is ultimately more difficult to stand up to the peer pressure before such an event -- him from his guys (who see this as an excuse for inappropriate behavior) and you from others in your life with varying opinions. I think I knew we were finally ready to seriously think about getting married when FI realized the importance of being able to say no to his friends before getting into a situation that made me uncomfortable. And it wasn''t one way, it was just about something else on my part (saying no to my parents!).

 

[smiles]

i think its important to distinguish between his friends getting him drunk and loosened up and his friends letting him cheat. My bf''s friends would probably make sure that he was having fun at his bachelor party enjoying the last night of freedom, whatever, alcohol, dancing even strippers lets say. but they would never let it get so far as to cheating. if his friends would let him ruin like the most important relationship he has then what kind of friends are they> and i assure you whether he admits it or not he will be worried about what you are doing at your party.

i bet he''d rather be drinking and geting lap dances from you anyways

 

[Elmorton]

I understand what the OP is saying about the friends. My husband was a little worried about his friends, too, actually - he was the first of all his buddies to get married and there had been "stripper" e-mails flying from all corners of the country from his college friends (who we adore, but they''re crazy). DH privately told his best man that under no circumstances did he want strippers or to go to a strip club, and knew that he could trust his BM...but drunk friends with a phonebook was another story - and since I was with him the night his roomies called him to say "Come home, there''s a stripper here with a boa constrictor and chocolate sauce, and we''re doing beer wrestling in kiddie pool in the living room..." well... anything is possible, we were just hoping that everyone had grown up in the last few years. Right before he left, I asked him a big what if - if strippers were there, would he walk out on his own bachelor party? He said that he probably would, because he knew he''d have a couple of friends in the group who would want to leave with him (I appreciate the honesty).At the bachelor party, they went to a baseball game. Drank. Went to dinner. Drank. Went to a bar, and my DH drunkenly danced with middle-aged women to "Don''t Stop Believin" - which we later played at the wedding "for the guys." Everyone (including DH) told me that it was a really, really fun night - they even texted me lovely photos of DH passed out to prove it (really, those were more alarming than anything else - I eventually had to turn off my phone because his friends were calling me just to tell me they were drunk, over and over again). I agree that the fear of injury or alcohol poisoning is much scarier. Anyway..

To be perfectly honest, my bach party (in Chicago''s boystown) was waaaay more sexually charged (but it was the International Men of Leather competition that weekend, so it really couldn''t be avoided). My MoH wanted to provide me with a crazy night in a safe environment, and that it was (and DH wasn''t exactly worried about me that night, either). Before our parties, we read that it''s actually the bachelorette parties that have been getting more out of hand in recent years, and I think that may have something to do with normalizing bad (and tacky) behavior. My MoH told me flat out "I refuse to buy all that p--is sh--." Bless her! But really, I''ve noticed this when I''m out at bars in the summer, they seem full of brides-to-be going up to single men asking them to eat those sweet-tart necklaces off of them, wearing phallic beads all over themselves, drinking out of creative straws, etc.. yuck. All it does is fuel the fire and legitimize/normalize sexual humiliation as part of the wedding rites.

I''m rattling on way too much, but anyway, I was really moved by the article that Indy posted (it was so, so sad) - so much that I sent it to DH. He said "there''s something really important there though - the guy in the article ordered it up himself. My friends knew I didn''t want that stuff, so they didn''t push it. You only get that kind of party when you tell your friends that''s the kind of party you want." Just food for thought.

 

[Gypsy]

Melpa, I have a lot of problems with your post. And one of them is the derogatory terminology you used regarding stippers. But as that one has been (handlily) addressed already. I''m gonna address some other issues.

1. Not all men think with their penises alone. That''s a convenient and BS cop out that actually EXCUSES their behaviour and sanctions it ina backhanded way. Men, especially grown men with a strong sense of moral judgement (and I''m not talking about biblical or religious moral judgement here, just general), have the ability to exert themselves and tell their penises NO. Believe it or not. It''s true. My fiance does not cheat. Not because he loves me, not because he''s magically different than other people. But because he respects himself and me, and would not respect himself if he betrayed me or our commitment in that way.

2. IF a man knows that he can''t control himself on alcohol, and by the time a man is old enough to be getting married he knows this about himself, THEN HE SHOULDN''T DRINK THAT MUCH. Again, it''s about respecting yourself. About the man respecting himself.

3. Just because I''m not threatened by a stripper or a lap dance, doesn''t mean that my fiance and I do not have clear boundaries. We have, as adults do, talked about these boundaries and so he knows where the boundaries are without my treating him like a four year old and saying "Honey when you go out tonight, don''t touch any strange women''s tatas." I respect him, as he respects me and himself, to know where the line is, and abide by it. NOT only because of his feelings for me, but because of his feelings for himself. He LIKES himself, respects himself, and trusts himself. That''s what gives me faith in him, and makes me feel secure.

And I too have gone to strip clubs with my fiance. And gotten a kick out of it. And there is nothing wrong with it. Or me. or him. Or the women dancing.