Holloway Cut Advisor Discrepency?

[chillybear]

Long time lurker but first time poster and had a quick question

I am nearing the finish line on the diamond hunt, and have a question regarding the HCA advisor

I have been using pricescopes calculator here

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

And when I was looking at a particular diamond, it came up as a 3 on the HCA advisor from pricescope.

But I had been working with someone whom I find very knowledgeable and has earned my trust, and he mentioned that the diamond is an HCA of 1.4

Its an AGS: 104070356003 with carat of 1.01

Could I have been so naive and silly that I miscalculated it totally?

 

[Lorelei]

Long time lurker but first time poster and had a quick question

I am nearing the finish line on the diamond hunt, and have a question regarding the HCA advisor

I have been using pricescopes calculator here

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

And when I was looking at a particular diamond, it came up as a 3 on the HCA advisor from pricescope.

But I had been working with someone whom I find very knowledgeable and has earned my trust, and he mentioned that the diamond is an HCA of 1.4

Its an AGS: 104070356003 with carat of 1.01

Could I have been so naive and silly that I miscalculated it totally?

Hi and welcome to Pricescope,

It's quite possible you miscalculated, it's easily done and it's not naïve and silly at all, I am glad you asked! If you could post all the details of the diamond plus any images, we will happily take a look for you, but do remember the HCA is a rejection, not a selection tool, my gut feeling is you are fine! But please do go ahead and post the info, I am sure we can set your mind at ease.

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, the stone you are considering is AGS0 cut and light performance? I did not look it up it's not linked. If so, the HCA isn't necessary as it is a prediction/rejection tool. With an AGS0 stone the light performance is measured and graded already for you. Also, I've heard people say the HCA tool is rather harsh and will sometimes let some stones get rejected unnecessarily, maybe yours falls in this category? Besides, a score of 3 is not trash by any means, just needs other verification that's its an all around performer. Hope that helps.

 

[Karl_K]

Here are the numbers:
Light Performance: 0
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 58.1%
Crown Angle: 32.7
Crown Height: 13.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.4% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4
Pavilion Depth: 44.1%
Star Length: 48%
Lower Girdle Length: 78%
Total Depth: 60.5%
Culet: Pointed

This is an AGS0 I would not buy with a pavilion angle of 41.4.
Unless all the angles are at exactly 41.4 and not over which is impossible it is going to have color entrapment.
That is why the advise not to run ags stones through hca is wrong.
The hca score is 3.. I agree with hca this one should be downgraded.

 

[luvdajules]

So interesting! Thanks, Karl

 

[Lorelei]

Here are the numbers:
Light Performance: 0
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 58.1%
Crown Angle: 32.7
Crown Height: 13.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.4% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4
Pavilion Depth: 44.1%
Star Length: 48%
Lower Girdle Length: 78%
Total Depth: 60.5%
Culet: Pointed

This is an AGS0 I would not buy with a pavilion angle of 41.4.
Unless all the angles are at exactly 41.4 and not over which is impossible it is going to have color entrapment.
That is why the advise not to run ags stones through hca is wrong.
The hca score is 3.. I agree with hca this one should be downgraded.

Thanks Pal for the help with getting the specs, good thing you did ! In full agreement with Karl, I wouldn't buy it either with the pavilion angle being what it is and looking at a couple of the other measurements. You can find a better combo I believe with a less deep pavilion.

 

[Karl_K]

Welcome.

To clarify there are ags0 stones in the 2 range on hca that are just fine which is why some advise to not run the hca but on the other hand it serves as a warning to look into it further like this one.
Color entrapment is not something that will show up on a reflector images either so someone not running the hca may have never questioned this stone.

 

[proto]

I am going to play devils advocate here and say, it doesnt matter what the dimensions are if you think it looks nice. You KNOW it has AGO 0 for light performance, so the HCA doesnt bother me too much.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/AConsumersGuidetotheHCA/

wordsearch for "The Limitations of the HCA" in the link

The real question is... how much is it and what is your budget?

 

[Lorelei]

Chillybear, what is the colour grade of this diamond please?

 

[proto]

AGS#:



104070356003



Report Type:



The Platinum Light Performance Diamond Quality® Document



Shape and Style:



Round Brilliant



Measurements:



6.53 - 6.55 x 3.95 mm



Cut Grade:



AGS Ideal 0



Color Grade:



AGS 1.5 (G)



Clarity Grade:



AGS 6 (SI2)



Carat Weight



1.016



Fluorescence:



Negligible



Comments:







"AGSL 104070356003" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Pinpoints are not shown.






Light Performance:



0



Polish:



Excellent



Symmetry:



Ideal



Table:



58.1%



Crown Angle:



32.7



Crown Height:



13.5%



Girdle:



Faceted, 1.4% to 3.2%



Pavilion Angle:



41.4



Pavilion Depth:



44.1%



Star Length:



48%



Lower Girdle Length:



78%



Total Depth:



60.5%



Culet:



Pointed



Display PDF Representation:



Open Report

 

[Laila619]

Here are the numbers:
Light Performance: 0
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 58.1%
Crown Angle: 32.7
Crown Height: 13.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.4% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4
Pavilion Depth: 44.1%
Star Length: 48%
Lower Girdle Length: 78%
Total Depth: 60.5%
Culet: Pointed

This is an AGS0 I would not buy with a pavilion angle of 41.4.
Unless all the angles are at exactly 41.4 and not over which is impossible it is going to have color entrapment.
That is why the advise not to run ags stones through hca is wrong.
The hca score is 3.. I agree with hca this one should be downgraded.

Yes, very true Karl. I do not think it should be stated as fact to newbies that "you don't run AGS stones through the HCA."

That particular 'flavor' of cut would not be for me, but OP, obviously you have to see it with your own eyes to determine what you like. I myself will not own a stone with a pav angle over 40.9. Everyone has their own preferences.

 

[chillybear]

WOW!

I was on the run this morning and had posted quickly, so I apologize for not giving more detail.

I did not expect such a welcome response! If I knew, I would have posted a lot earlier and had less white hair grow lol!

Ok, so it sounds like I was not wrong and miscalculated, that it is truely a 3 on the HCA. Odd that the person I was working with mentioned it was a 1.4 - I am assuming that he probably misread the numbers (so I hope)

I should be at work right now but am very excited at the help I am getting and would love some further advice.

I have narrowed my search down to the following 6 and would absolutely love some opinons.

The order is from lowest price (about $5500) to highest price ($6900) after taxes. This is my short list currently, so while I would love to go with the lowest price option, I do ultimately want my future fiancee (fingers crossed) to be happy and would like the best value.

Im getting these from a mix of bluenile + someone locally that can order it in for me to see before final purchase.

GIA

1.02
SI2
H color
Excellent cut

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1169853385&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

This one I was hopeful for since it scored so well on the HCA advisor, but was advised that the inclusions and look of it may not be the best option, though it is the best value on my list.

0.96
SI2
F
Excellent cut

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5156138173&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

0.96
SI2
F Color
Excellent cut

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5136053078&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

1.06
SI2
G Color
Excellent cut

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2166383006&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

AGS

1.07
SI2
H Color
Ideal cut

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104052775007&Weight=1.07&D=1

1.05
SI2
H color
Ideal cut

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104068350001&Weight=1.05&D=1

Amongst these, any and all advice/insight/criticisim would very much be appreciated.

And if unfortunately it turns out that none of these are a decent option, its back to the hunt!

 

[Lorelei]

LOL - sorry about the white hairs! I am glad you are pleased with the help you are getting. You have some definite contenders in your list.

They all have definite potential so we need to narrow the field, how many do you plan to call in? If you aren't sure, I think the priority is to check which are eyeclean to your specifications. In other words, ask the vendor to inspect each diamond and make your expectations clear. For example, 'eyecleanliness' is judged face up and along these lines. No visible inclusions face up with the naked eye in normal lighting conditions from a distance of around 12 inches give or take according to each vendor's personal preference. With that in mind, if YOUR personal standard of ' eyecleanliness' happens to be ' I don't want my fiancé to see any visible inclusions in any lighting conditions from any angle or distance,' make sure you are absolutely clear with the vendor. Some SI2 might not fit that bill if your personal expectations are extremely stringent, but it can and has been done. Also concerning the strong blue fluorescent stones, just check too that this isn't making such diamonds look a bit cloudy in UV light, albeit this is rare, but worth checking while the vendor can eyeball the diamond for you.

 

[chillybear]

I have been trying to read and absorb as much info as I can to the point where I think I am just over analyzing, so appreciate the moral support shown now

I think you had asked about the fluorescence, I actually did not notice that they all had some level of fluorescence as I dont mind it. I heard that some level of fluorescence may help a diamond face up whiter, but again I saw some with fluorescence and was not bothered very much by it.

I was only considering calling in perhaps 2, as I would need to pay return shipping back for each one. Would this be ill advised? Should I call in more?

 

[proto]

I cant imagine the cost of shipping 10 diamonds from BN is any more than 1 diamond. Maybe the insurance aspect, but that is it.

 

[Lorelei]

I have been trying to read and absorb as much info as I can to the point where I think I am just over analyzing, so appreciate the moral support shown now

I think you had asked about the fluorescence, I actually did not notice that they all had some level of fluorescence as I dont mind it. I heard that some level of fluorescence may help a diamond face up whiter, but again I saw some with fluorescence and was not bothered very much by it.

I was only considering calling in perhaps 2, as I would need to pay return shipping back for each one. Would this be ill advised? Should I call in more?

I know what you mean and it's understandable, but trust me, you are doing great and the time spent now will be well worth it once you have the ring. I was mistaken with them all having fluorescence, I misread a couple of the reports, realized I had clicked on the same ones a couple of times. I think calling in 2 is perfectly reasonable, do you have a preference for any of them? You could start with your two top contenders and check they are eye clean to help whittle down your selections.

 

[luvdajules]

Just a suggestion as you have many to chose from, pick one of the under a carat ones (perhaps the F one you like) and then one of the AGS0 stones, as they are similar to each other too. I think that would be a good plan. May I ask your budget? Because one of the things I like about Crafted by Infinity is that they offer ideal cut diamonds in a wide range of color and clarities including Si2 and even I1. Maybe there's an option for you there to compare with these? Those stones are guaranteed amazing and Wink can get you images and videos too to reassure you of performance prior to purchase. I just looked and there's possibly 3 options, just under a carat for $6k, $6.5k, and $7.5k depending on budget.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

I agree with luvdajules. Look at this bad boy....in your price range, .94 AGS0, F and the cleanest SI2 I think I have ever seen. Check out the video and the report.

Crafted by Infinity

I ran it through the HCA and it scores .8!! Better than mine!!

I am the proud and recent owner of a CBI and no matter what words I tell you, I cannot describe the mesmerizing beauty of my stone and the attention it garners from almost anyone who sees it. I've posted about it all over the board, so you can look up some of my prior posts for in depth comments. You can't do better than CBI, imho.









STAY AWAY FROM BLUE NILE

 

[chillybear]

So I looked over my "list" again to try and weed out a few more based on a few things and trying to get a "top 3"

I am having a tough time between these two

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104052775007&Weight=1.07&D=1

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104068350001&Weight=1.05&D=1

And I would like to knock one off of the following

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1169853385&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2166383006&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5156138173&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Out of these 5 are there any particular 2 that I should avoid?

Also, I was not aware this was possible before but I spoke to someone at Blue Nile regarding whether I could get confirmation that a particular diamond is "eye clean" and they said they can and will get back to me.

Has anyone else dealt with an "eye clean" from blue nile? Are they trust worthy in this respect?

Crafted by Infinity does seem to have some gorgeous looking diamonds - oh man the choices are driving me nuts

 

[luvdajules]

My choice, 2nd AGS option (doesn't really matter cause they are so similar) and 3rd (F) option for GIA and a Crafted by Infinity stone (whichever fits your budget)...arrange to have them sent to a third party appraiser and maybe you won't have to buy to view them. Not sure how that works, maybe someone else can confirm? Buy the prettiest to your eyes to have set and send others back. That's what I would do. This way, you have an option that's AGS0 that's over a carat, a budget friendly option with great color, and a guaranteed all around performer (but slightly under a carat).

 

[Lorelei]

I just wanted to bring up a very common misconception about the HCA that often pops up! The HCA was designed and intended as a rejection tool, not for selection. As most familiar with the HCA know, a few measurements are entered and the HCA gives a result that indicate whether the diamond in question is worth further evaluation. Scores between 2 and 3 might also be worth further evaluation depending on the proportion configuration, the results of any available images and the intended use of the stone. It isn't the case that the lower the score, the better the diamond is or appears, but it is so easy to think that's the case as this has come up many times over the years and in my early days, I seem to remember thinking the same initially. The HCA can be considered to be a first round rejection tool for potential buyers, to screen stones that score 2 and below as being worth further evaluation and sometimes those between 2 and 3 might not need to be dismissed out of hand in some cases. The HCA does this very well indeed I might add, this one program has been invaluable to thousands of diamond buyers, used as intended.

 

[Lorelei]

So I looked over my "list" again to try and weed out a few more based on a few things and trying to get a "top 3"

I am having a tough time between these two

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104052775007&Weight=1.07&D=1

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104068350001&Weight=1.05&D=1

And I would like to knock one off of the following

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1169853385&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2166383006&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5156138173&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Out of these 5 are there any particular 2 that I should avoid?

Also, I was not aware this was possible before but I spoke to someone at Blue Nile regarding whether I could get confirmation that a particular diamond is "eye clean" and they said they can and will get back to me.

Has anyone else dealt with an "eye clean" from blue nile? Are they trust worthy in this respect?

Crafted by Infinity does seem to have some gorgeous looking diamonds - oh man the choices are driving me nuts

In my experience, Blue Nile have done well with the stones I have seen checked by them for ' eyecleanliness.' Give any vendor the best chance of making you happy by being very specific concerning your expectations. Some in the industry judge whether a stone is eyeclean or not face up in normal light, from a distance of about 10- 12 inches thereabouts. Your definition might vary, so be sure to be very specific. If your personal definition of an eye clean diamond especially in SI clarity grades is this; ' I don't want my intended or I to see any visible inclusions face up, from the side, or any angle at close viewing in any lighting, make sure they know this. If you are a bit older and buying a diamond, then you will know that you won't see a thing close up anyway and maybe your arms won't be long enough to see any inclusions - hehe!

I remember almost 10 years ago reading Garry's caveat on judging the eye clean factor, that once you reach a certain age, any inclusions you can see in your diamond won't bother you any longer. Was he ever right 10 years later....

I will return and take a look through your selections along with the others shortly.

 

[Lorelei]

So I looked over my "list" again to try and weed out a few more based on a few things and trying to get a "top 3"

I am having a tough time between these two

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104052775007&Weight=1.07&D=1

https://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104068350001&Weight=1.05&D=1

And I would like to knock one off of the following

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1169853385&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2166383006&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5156138173&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Out of these 5 are there any particular 2 that I should avoid?

Also, I was not aware this was possible before but I spoke to someone at Blue Nile regarding whether I could get confirmation that a particular diamond is "eye clean" and they said they can and will get back to me.

Has anyone else dealt with an "eye clean" from blue nile? Are they trust worthy in this respect?

Crafted by Infinity does seem to have some gorgeous looking diamonds - oh man the choices are driving me nuts

My preferences are for the two AGS stones and the the one below.

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5156138173&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

The diamond 2166383006 might be absolutely fine, but it mentions a cavity inclusion in SI2 so I would advise a careful inspection of this diamond if needed. It's unlikely the cavity would pose a problem but best to be sure.


My opinion would be to put the first GIA diamond and this one 2166383006 on the back burner for now, we can always go back to them if needed. If that sounds reasonable to you, check carefully to make sure they are eye clean to your specifications as above. Some of the others might be along soon and can give you their opinion also.