maxjr
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 13
Hello,
I’ve just purchased a Hearts on Fire Dream diamond and would like to share my experience for those of you that may be interested.
We all already know that the HOF mark-up is very high and I would not recommend purchasing one of their regular round brilliants, but the Dream may be worth it (to some of you anyway). I began searching about a month or so ago. My original observation that HOF set the prices was wrong, even taking into account minor price differences due to location. Comparing prices from various vendors I saw more than a $1000.00 difference in virtually the same stone from different vendors.
Anyone who is considering a HOF Dream should send an e-mail with their basic requirements (carat, color, clarity) to numerous vendors and shop for the best prices.
I’ve compiled a small list for convenience (bear in mind there are a LOT more than just these vendors):
Name WebSite E-mail Contact
Ellis Fine Jewelers http://www.ellisfinejewelers.com [email protected] Dan Levinson
Decker Jewelers http://deckerjewelers.com [email protected] Dan Decker
Saettele Jewelers http://www.midwestdiamonds.com [email protected] Gustave J. Saettele
Samuel Gordons http://www.samuelgordons.com [email protected] Dan Gordon
Thornton & Sons Jewelers http://www.thornton-sons.com [email protected]
Victorias Gold http://vwww.victoriasgold.com [email protected]
E.M. Smith Jewelers http://www.emsmith-jewelers.com
I also posted a Price List from one vendor on a different thread for comparison:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pricing-enclosed-for-hof-diamonds.8080/
Out of the jewelers that responded, Dan Levinson from Ellis Fine Jewelers had the best price for the carat, color and clarity I was specifically looking for (other vendors might have better prices on different carat, color and clarity stones).
I asked Dan to send me the AGS reports for 4 stones that met my criteria:
Dream: 5756 6137 6142 3742
Price Listed: $5,200.00 $5,895.00 $5,695.00 $5,400.00
Carat 0.756 0.766 0.74 0.795
Color I H H I
Clarity VS1 VS1 VS1 VS1
Measurements: 6.05x5.16x3.65 6.02x5.16x3.76 6.07x5.19x3.61 6.28x5.26x3.7
Table% 53.0% 53.0% 54.0% 57.0%
Total Depth % 60.3% 62.5% 59.5% 64.1%
Crown Angle 33.2 37.0 32.1 34.0
Crown Height % 12.9% 15.0% 12.0% 13.7%
Pavilion Angle 40.8 41.1 41.1 41.1
Pavilion Depth % 40.5% 40.7% 40.9% 43.3%
Girdle Thickness 1.8% to 2.8% 1.7% to 2.7% 1.6% to 2.1% 0.7% to 2.9%
Polish/Symmetry Ideal Ideal Ideal Ideal
Out of these four I eliminated 3742 due to the 0.7% girdle. I could not decide on the other three, but I was not going to pay for 3 appraisals. I tried asking the “Diamond Wizard” at HOF what the proper proportions/ratios were for the Dream.
I asked:
“Which of the two has the better proportions? I am concerned about the crown depth (12.9 or 15.0) in relation to an equal table size (53).”
The Diamond Wizard responded:
Hi Again,
In either case the beauty of each Dream should be apparent to the eye of the beholder, a choice can only be made by comparing the diamonds side-by-side.
Both diamonds achieve the AGS Ideal Grade for Polish and Symmetry. In fancy shapes, however, there are no clear standards for Ideal Proportions.
Unfortunately all the percentages you are reading are based on techniques used for accurately grading round diamonds. The diameter used to calculate the depth percentage, is actually an average between the narrowest and widest measurements across the Dream. But the remarkable thing is how consistent Dream is in having equal length and width from side-to-side. Also what is really the crown angle of Dream?
There is no conventional main facet on the crown of Dream that
extends from the girdle to the table, as there is in all rounds. This is because the crown facets of Dream have a patented design which heightens the contrast between all the crown facets to provide maximum sparkle!
Luckily Dream cutting is still a good part art. As a rule I don't like to get hung up chasing down all the minutiae on certificates. That puts too much power in the hands of technicians and number crunchers. Diamonds are meant to be enjoyed.
Hope this helps,
Yours truly the Wizard
------------------
Not much help from the Diamond Wizard in terms of helping me narrow down my choice. I went back to the AGS report and took a look at the drawings of the inclusions and blemishes. I ended up choosing Dream 6142 for the better color and larger size (not weight).
I had it appraised by Bill Lieberum of http://www.consumersgemlab.com ([email protected]).
I drove down to Boca Raton to meet Bill and see the Dream in person. Bill’s office is a complete mess. There are piles upon piles of gemology tomes and trade magazines, along with a flock of expensive looking gadgets and small knickknacks and compressed air cans spread out over the lobby and rooms. You can tell he eats, breathes and sleeps diamonds. He took the Dream out of his safe and placed it on a tray underneath a light that was turned off.
“Jeweler’s use these lamps to sell diamonds,” he tells me, “it will look better than it normally would”. He was not kidding, I had to look away when he turned on the lamp…
I was there for almost 4 hours going over everything with him, if you live anywhere near the person doing your appraisal you should try to be there when it is done. If they do as good a job as Bill you’ll really enjoy the experience.
I talked to Dan Levinson and he dropped the price for me a little more. Ended up purchasing it for $5500.00 instead of $5695.00.
Following is a few pictures from Bill’s report.
Regards,
Max
I’ve just purchased a Hearts on Fire Dream diamond and would like to share my experience for those of you that may be interested.
We all already know that the HOF mark-up is very high and I would not recommend purchasing one of their regular round brilliants, but the Dream may be worth it (to some of you anyway). I began searching about a month or so ago. My original observation that HOF set the prices was wrong, even taking into account minor price differences due to location. Comparing prices from various vendors I saw more than a $1000.00 difference in virtually the same stone from different vendors.
Anyone who is considering a HOF Dream should send an e-mail with their basic requirements (carat, color, clarity) to numerous vendors and shop for the best prices.
I’ve compiled a small list for convenience (bear in mind there are a LOT more than just these vendors):
Name WebSite E-mail Contact
Ellis Fine Jewelers http://www.ellisfinejewelers.com [email protected] Dan Levinson
Decker Jewelers http://deckerjewelers.com [email protected] Dan Decker
Saettele Jewelers http://www.midwestdiamonds.com [email protected] Gustave J. Saettele
Samuel Gordons http://www.samuelgordons.com [email protected] Dan Gordon
Thornton & Sons Jewelers http://www.thornton-sons.com [email protected]
Victorias Gold http://vwww.victoriasgold.com [email protected]
E.M. Smith Jewelers http://www.emsmith-jewelers.com
I also posted a Price List from one vendor on a different thread for comparison:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pricing-enclosed-for-hof-diamonds.8080/
Out of the jewelers that responded, Dan Levinson from Ellis Fine Jewelers had the best price for the carat, color and clarity I was specifically looking for (other vendors might have better prices on different carat, color and clarity stones).
I asked Dan to send me the AGS reports for 4 stones that met my criteria:
Dream: 5756 6137 6142 3742
Price Listed: $5,200.00 $5,895.00 $5,695.00 $5,400.00
Carat 0.756 0.766 0.74 0.795
Color I H H I
Clarity VS1 VS1 VS1 VS1
Measurements: 6.05x5.16x3.65 6.02x5.16x3.76 6.07x5.19x3.61 6.28x5.26x3.7
Table% 53.0% 53.0% 54.0% 57.0%
Total Depth % 60.3% 62.5% 59.5% 64.1%
Crown Angle 33.2 37.0 32.1 34.0
Crown Height % 12.9% 15.0% 12.0% 13.7%
Pavilion Angle 40.8 41.1 41.1 41.1
Pavilion Depth % 40.5% 40.7% 40.9% 43.3%
Girdle Thickness 1.8% to 2.8% 1.7% to 2.7% 1.6% to 2.1% 0.7% to 2.9%
Polish/Symmetry Ideal Ideal Ideal Ideal
Out of these four I eliminated 3742 due to the 0.7% girdle. I could not decide on the other three, but I was not going to pay for 3 appraisals. I tried asking the “Diamond Wizard” at HOF what the proper proportions/ratios were for the Dream.
I asked:
“Which of the two has the better proportions? I am concerned about the crown depth (12.9 or 15.0) in relation to an equal table size (53).”
The Diamond Wizard responded:
Hi Again,
In either case the beauty of each Dream should be apparent to the eye of the beholder, a choice can only be made by comparing the diamonds side-by-side.
Both diamonds achieve the AGS Ideal Grade for Polish and Symmetry. In fancy shapes, however, there are no clear standards for Ideal Proportions.
Unfortunately all the percentages you are reading are based on techniques used for accurately grading round diamonds. The diameter used to calculate the depth percentage, is actually an average between the narrowest and widest measurements across the Dream. But the remarkable thing is how consistent Dream is in having equal length and width from side-to-side. Also what is really the crown angle of Dream?
There is no conventional main facet on the crown of Dream that
extends from the girdle to the table, as there is in all rounds. This is because the crown facets of Dream have a patented design which heightens the contrast between all the crown facets to provide maximum sparkle!
Luckily Dream cutting is still a good part art. As a rule I don't like to get hung up chasing down all the minutiae on certificates. That puts too much power in the hands of technicians and number crunchers. Diamonds are meant to be enjoyed.
Hope this helps,
Yours truly the Wizard
------------------
Not much help from the Diamond Wizard in terms of helping me narrow down my choice. I went back to the AGS report and took a look at the drawings of the inclusions and blemishes. I ended up choosing Dream 6142 for the better color and larger size (not weight).
I had it appraised by Bill Lieberum of http://www.consumersgemlab.com ([email protected]).
I drove down to Boca Raton to meet Bill and see the Dream in person. Bill’s office is a complete mess. There are piles upon piles of gemology tomes and trade magazines, along with a flock of expensive looking gadgets and small knickknacks and compressed air cans spread out over the lobby and rooms. You can tell he eats, breathes and sleeps diamonds. He took the Dream out of his safe and placed it on a tray underneath a light that was turned off.
“Jeweler’s use these lamps to sell diamonds,” he tells me, “it will look better than it normally would”. He was not kidding, I had to look away when he turned on the lamp…
I was there for almost 4 hours going over everything with him, if you live anywhere near the person doing your appraisal you should try to be there when it is done. If they do as good a job as Bill you’ll really enjoy the experience.
I talked to Dan Levinson and he dropped the price for me a little more. Ended up purchasing it for $5500.00 instead of $5695.00.
Following is a few pictures from Bill’s report.
Regards,
Max
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