Hey here is the first of many....

[Maisie]

There is a heading on the Tiffany website called 'Beware of hidden flaws'.

There are loads of different 'dangers' for want of a better word and one of them is Enhancements. They talk about laser drilled diamonds, heat treatment and augmentation (which I thought meant a boob job but there you go!).

How can I tell that a diamond I buy has not been interfered with? Obviously I could ask the vendor but is it possible to tell by looking under a loupe and also how does it affect the diamond with regard to possible problems later on.

Also, if a vendor has an upgrade promise and they get a diamond back that is slightly chipped or whatever - would they do any of the above before they sell it back to a customer?

I have to say that although I promised you some stupid questions - this one looks a bit of a good one to me!

Thankyooo

Maisie

 

[belle]

so.... is anyone else supposed to answer?

 

[JulieN]

augmentation is fracture filled...

scare tactics. Buy Tiffany, we're the best. It's the only way to not get a funky stone.

buy GIA/AGS and you have no problem. they do not accept fracture filled. if drilled or HPHT, it will say so.

I think you are good even for EGL and IGI for fracture filled and maybe HPHT.

 

[kenny]

Yes, be sure to buy a stone graded by AGS or GIA from a reputable vendor.
They won''t even grade a stone with those treatments.

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/26/2007 1:17:01 PM
Author: kenny
Yes, be sure to buy a stone graded by AGS or GIA from a reputable vendor.
They won''t even grade a stone with those treatments.

I am not sure about AGS..., but GIA grades ''laser drilled and HTHP (high preasure high temperature) treated'' Diamonds....

 

[belle]

hehehe...okay, i see julie and kenny got the first part. i'll take the vendor trade up question....
if a stone has damage, a reputable vendor will have the damage fixed if it is minor enough and have the stone regraded. i know that wf sends ALL of their stones back for regrading after a trade in no matter what.

 

[Maisie]

Yes sorry Belle the question was open to everyone but I wanted to draw strm to it as I promised some questions were on their way.

 

[kenny]

Oh really?

Thanks.

I assume it is disclosed on the report.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 1/26/2007 1:14:40 PM
Author: JulieN
augmentation is fracture filled...

scare tactics. Buy Tiffany, we''re the best. It''s the only way to not get a funky stone.

buy GIA/AGS and you have no problem. they do not accept fracture filled. if drilled or HPHT, it will say so.

I think you are good even for EGL and IGI for fracture filled and maybe HPHT.

I must admit I was kind of sucked into the whole Tiffany thing for a little while but then I started reading up more about diamonds and realised that you are buying the name more than the ring. (not that I am criticising anyone who has a Tiffany ring).

So if a diamond has any of these treatments done is it a potential problem later on? Would it weaken the diamond - would it be more likely to break? (tut, I read that back and it sounds silly - ''break'' - but you know what I mean!)

Maisie

 

[strmrdr]

howdy Maisiebelle

The GIA cert will note any treatments, AGS wont grade them stick to AGS and GIA certs.
A skilled appraiser can spot these too.

Yes dealers check out the trade ins for damage and some have them regraded.

The key to dealing with either of these issues is a good vendor with solid reputation.

As for seeing them under a loupe yes some you can see it usualy if you know what to look for.
The filling wont exactly match the rest of the diamond and the laser hole will be visible.
But its better to find a trusted vendor and appraiser than try and do it yourself unless your buying on the secondary market with a large discount (pawnshops and similar)

 

[Maisie]

So are a lot of diamonds treated in some way? I''m not sure if its a common thing or if its quite rare.

 

[JulieN]

Fracture filled, you need to find someone who deals in that sort of thing.

Laser drill, I've seen maybe 3 GIA reports with it. And I've looked at LOTS of GIA reports.

HPHT, again, usually specialty retailer.

So the average person running across the average stone on Blue Nile (totally average, but only GIA/AGS) I think it's pretty unlikely that he'll encounter such a stone.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/26/2007 1:57:38 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
So are a lot of diamonds treated in some way? I''m not sure if its a common thing or if its quite rare.

yes, drilled and filled is fairly common we just don''t see them on PS very often.
There are places both b&m and online that heavily push them.

hpht less so but that may be because it isn''t as obvious and can remain hidden on uncerted goods and some lab reports.

 

[Maisie]

And if a diamond has a fractured filled would this become a problem later on? Or once its filled is that it all sorted and it won''t splinter if you accidently caught it or knocked it?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:05:38 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
And if a diamond has a fractured filled would this become a problem later on? Or once its filled is that it all sorted and it won't splinter if you accidently caught it or knocked it?

They can be weaker and under heat the glass can melt out usualy from a repair on the ring.
I dont like them and avoid them as much as possible.

 

[belle]

you''re scaring me maisie

 

[Maisie]

Oh no.... why am I scaring you Belle?

 

[Ellen]

Maise, are planning on buying online?

 

[belle]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:11:53 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
Oh no.... why am I scaring you Belle?

you''re not thinking of a treated stone are you?

 

[Maisie]

Yes Ellen definitely online. Its easier for me as I live in the UK.

I''m not intending on buying a treated stone Belle. I was asking because I had read about it and I want to make sure I don''t buy one. I am a bit of a worrier and I want to know as much as possible about things before we go ahead.

 

[belle]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:19:27 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
Yes Ellen definitely online. Its easier for me as I live in the UK.

I''m not intending on buying a treated stone Belle. I was asking because I had read about it and I want to make sure I don''t buy one. I am a bit of a worrier and I want to know as much as possible about things before we go ahead.

oh goodness girl!
you had me worried!
we''re not going to let you get a treated stone!

you''re in good hands.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:19:27 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
Yes Ellen definitely online. Its easier for me as I live in the UK.

I''m not intending on buying a treated stone Belle. I was asking because I had read about it and I want to make sure I don''t buy one. I am a bit of a worrier and I want to know as much as possible about things before we go ahead.

Well nothing wrong with knowledge.

If you go with a reputable vendor, as strm mentioned earlier, there will be absolutely no need to worry about this.

 

[genette]

If you''re going to buy online then maybe you can try Good Old Gold or Whiteflash. My stone is from Good Old Gold and I love it and I trust them completely. There are other vendors on here that people have had good experiences with.

 

[Maisie]

Aww thankyou both, you are looking after me and I really appreciate it! I have actually seen what I think could be the one (provided its not gone by the time I need to buy it). Would you have a quick look and tell me what you think?

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179732.htm

I know I might miss out on this one as its a couple of months till I can buy it but at least I will know if my choice would be along the right lines.

Thanks

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:29:27 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
Aww thankyou both, you are looking after me and I really appreciate it! I have actually seen what I think could be the one (provided its not gone by the time I need to buy it). Would you have a quick look and tell me what you think?

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179732.htm

I know I might miss out on this one as its a couple of months till I can buy it but at least I will know if my choice would be along the right lines.

Thanks

It''s a beaut!

 

[Maisie]

Ooooh Yey!!!! Go me - go me!!!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:34:41 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
Ooooh Yey!!!! Go me - go me!!!!

lolol!

You go girl.

 

[Maisie]

lol, so I must be learning then? I hope so as I spend a LOT of time reading on here!

 

[RockDoc]

Comment about some of the treatments.......


Laser drilling. In most of these stones that are drilled using the "old" laser drilling method, it is done to make a dark inclusion appear white. But if the inclusion is deep in the stone, there will be a drill path from the surface to wherever the inclusion is.

There is a newer treatment for lasering that is less discernable. Also don''t assume a stone has just one laser drill. Some have quite a few.

Another additional treatment used, is to fracture fill the laser drill hole, which make the drill less visable. The fracture filling will break down over time, and exposure to various exposure to certain conditions. If this does happen the company that did the fracture filling will repeat the treatment as a free courtesy to the client.


Fracture Filling - This treatment certainly hides flaws which would otherwise be visible. How advisable it is to consider buying such a diamond, would be based on location, size, nature and amount of the filling was induced into the diamond.

As written above this treatment could come out with ultrasonic exposure for a long time, or severe temperature change to the stone, such when soldering metal repairs, and sometimes with steamiing.

In considering the purchase of a fracture filled stone, you need to assume that the stone initial clarity grade is NOT reported, and for those who DO clarity grade these diamonds - the clairty grade is rendered after the treatment is done.
Stones can improve dramtically - usually to SI or even VS from an I-1 to I-3 clairity grade before the treatment.

It is for this reason that AGS and GIA will not clarity grade stones that have had fracture filling treatment.


HPHT - This is not a treatment that can be discerned just by a loupe or scope examination.

There is HPHT used on natural diamonds and HPHT grown synthetics. Some have additional treatments, too.

Important consideration in making purchase decision ..... Often, even the best and most advanced labs can''t tell 100% of the time, with 100% assurance. Fortunately not every type of natural diamond will be improved ( usually the color improvement ) and the type that can be enhanced for color are uncommon. The types that can be improved are uncommon. There is equipment that will indicate that a stone is suspect, but usually the testing needs to be done by a major lab that has more advanced equipment. But even then some HPHT will "sneak" through.



The important part overall, is to consider that it is OK to buy a treated stone if you know the "risks" in making that decision and that the treatment is thoroughly explained and disclosed by the seller.

From my experience, if you wish to sell a treated stone later, purchaser interest in buying one is very low. Most buyers would not want a treated stone.

For some people with limited budgets, treatments can be a worthwhile consideration, due to the lower prices for this material. But once you''ve bought one, reselling it later may be a bit of a nemesis with finding an interested purchaser.


Rockdoc

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/26/2007 2:39:15 PM
Author: Maisiebelle
lol, so I must be learning then? I hope so as I spend a LOT of time reading on here!

You have learned well!

And yes, if I had a dollar for every hour on here I spent researching it would have practically paid for my ring.