Helping parents out financially

[chemgirl]

I'm in an awkward situation and I don't really know what to do.

DH's parents are both in serious debt and have absolutely no retirement savings. Its fair to say that they are horrible with money. DH's dad makes about $90k per year, but has over $50k in debt. DH's mom doesn't make that much, but she sold DH's childhood home about 5 years ago for $430k (she originally payed $80k back in the 70's). Right now they are both struggling financially and DH wants to help them out.

I don't.

In my opinion, they got themselves in to their respective situations, and they're not doing anything to change it. DH's mom bought a 2400 square foot home in an expensive part of the UK when prices were booming. She has since bought a brand new mini cooper with all of the add ons, and has gone on extended holiday in Turkey and in Italy (2 different trips...3 weeks each). His father buys atv's, snowmobiles, boats etc. There are 3 cars in his household for 2 people. It also doesn't help that DH's stepmom buys several things online per day and has every electronic gadget ever made. Last time I was over she was showing off her new ipad and her kindle. She already has a Sony reader, an HP tablet, and a nook. Her credit cards were lined up next to her laptop and there were 20+ FedEx boxes stacked up in the back room

We're going to visit FIL and Step-MIL today so that got me thinking about it. DH has mentioned giving his Dad and Mom $10k each to help them pay down some of their higher interest credit cards. While we could do it, we have student loans and our second car is acting up and might need to be replaced soon. Sure its greedy, but hey, its my money too! I also worry that they would just spend it all on fancy new stuff.

This is all the more confusing because my parents have a large retirement savings and no debt. Until recently, they didn't make much more than DH's family, but they also don't have a lot of status symbols. I feel that they did the responsible thing, so now they're rewarded. I also know that my dad would never ever accept money from me. It seems really odd to me that DH's parents have hinted that they want it.

Your thoughts? Has anyone helped out their parents financially, and if so, how did it affect your relationship?

 

[decodelighted]

If they are struggling with financial problems, I'd offer to pay for them to make an appointment with a financial counselor or accountant type who will address the PROBLEM. Giving them 10K each is a lot of money for you -- and would just be a bandaid for them that wouldn't EVER really help them. People don't change until they have to. And they are certainly not going to take advice from their child. They need to hear it from a professional. IMHO.

 

[minmin001]

I'd totally help them out if they are financially responsible. But this does not sound like they are financially responsible at all! giving them money is just a way to say keep doing what you are doing now and we got your back.
I would NOT offer any money but try to help them manage their money better. With the amount of money they make, they will certainly be fine as long as they know how to manage their money. I hate when this happens when you expect adult to be more mature and responsible with things but they are not.....my friend's parents are the same way...

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

 

[stephbolt]

If my parents (or MIL) were in a bad place financially due to factors that were out of their control (medical bills, lost job, etc) and DH and I could afford it, we would certainly help them out. But I would have a hard time in a situation like yours, where the issues seem to be primarily due to their own money management skills (or lack thereof). Giving them money isn't going to help - it's just going to increase their ability to continue to make irresponsible financial decisions.

 

[chemgirl]

Cool, so I'm not a horrible monster.

I am adamantly against giving them money unless its in a situation beyond their control. I would even be open to lending them money if they were in a tight spot and I saw that they were actively working to fix their situation. The whole thing is on my mind today because we're going to visit them and DH asked me not to bring my new MacBook Air because Step-MIL will want one too. Its frustrating because its not like its a toy, I needed a new computer because my old laptop was off warranty and the screen was flashing.

DH had similar money problems until I kicked his a$$ so I think that may be why he's more sympathetic.

 

[iheartscience]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

Ditto this. You giving them money would absolutely be enabling them. I wouldn't even pay for an appointment with a financial planner, honestly. It sounds like they have plenty of money and could afford to pay for a financial planner themselves. It's all about priorities.

 

[kelpie]

Offering help with a financial planner or even a therapist specializing in compulsive shopping is a good idea. Helping them financially will leave them in the same place and you 10k poorer. I have absolutely offered to help my extremely fiscally responsible inlaws when they hit hard times (they refused the assistance) but this is a very different situation. Don't let DH become their enabler.

 

[lbbaber]

I clicked on this thinking I was going to tell you OF COURSE you should help them BUT after reading about how irresponsible they are woth their money--forget it! They blew a ton of money and now you need to help. Heck no!!

Like someone else mentioned, offer to help them pay for a class on money responsability and call it a day. Show your DH this thread if he doesn't agree. Besides, if you give them more cash they probably will waste that too. What a difficult position you are in. I feel for you.

 

[tyty333]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

Ditto this. You giving them money would absolutely be enabling them. I wouldn't even pay for an appointment with a financial planner, honestly. It sounds like they have plenty of money and could afford to pay for a financial planner themselves. It's all about priorities.

Same for me...in no way would I give these people $10k. They created their problems and doesnt sound like they are trying to
work on them either. Spending $20k on these people would be a big waste of your money and they will be in the same boat a few
months down the road.

Getting them help for their bad spending habits would be nice but only if they are at that point where the want to change
(and it doesnt sound like they are there yet). Dont throw good money after bad!

 

[mrscushion]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

Ditto this. You giving them money would absolutely be enabling them. I wouldn't even pay for an appointment with a financial planner, honestly. It sounds like they have plenty of money and could afford to pay for a financial planner themselves. It's all about priorities.

I agree you should not give them money. It won't change a thing. I would, however, get actively involved now by forcing them to see a financial planner and making them sell some of their belongings to help pay down debt. I would do this out of self interest, because most likely when they have to retire due to old age and health concerns and have no savings and lots of debt, the burden will probably end up on your DH's shoulders at least to some extent. They're still his parents after all. I think your DH is right that he needs to get active now, but not by providing more money.

 

[slg47]

I would not give them money...if they blow through it they will just expect more in the future. I think helping them find a financial planner is a good idea.

 

[centralsquare]

If my parents (or MIL) were in a bad place financially due to factors that were out of their control (medical bills, lost job, etc) and DH and I could afford it, we would certainly help them out. But I would have a hard time in a situation like yours, where the issues seem to be primarily due to their own money management skills (or lack thereof). Giving them money isn't going to help - it's just going to increase their ability to continue to make irresponsible financial decisions.

+1

 

[Haven]

I would not give them money...if they blow through it they will just expect more in the future. I think helping them find a financial planner is a good idea.

Agreed!

My father is similar to your DH's parents in that he is terrible with money and no matter how much he earns, he will always need more. He asked us for $4,000 within the last year and we did not choose to give him the money. In my opinion, it would only have enabled him to continue living irresponsibly, and I don't want to be part of the problem. (Had the 4K been something that would have magically solved all his financial problems, and put him on the right track to being financially stable and responsible, I would have given it to him in a heartbeat.)

It's hard to watch them struggle, but it would be harder to watch them struggle and know that you enable some of their new big purchases. IMO, of course.

 

[JewelFreak]

I hope you can get DH to agree that his parents must begin managing their money & debt better. He will have to discuss it with them -- along w/his siblings, if any -- as their son. If you took the lead it could be awkward because they're his parents. It sure sounds as if it has to be done. Another vote here that giving them money is throwing it away.

This situation turns up often in advice columns. Usually the recommendation is, as others have said, to get them working w/a counselor or adviser. Lend or give them money only if they will agree to ongoing work w/professionals AND you to create & stick to a budget. The tricky part is that they have to recognize the hole they're digging & want to change. If they do not, you & DH may need to agree on a joint attitude until they slam into a wall of debt & come to their senses: support their habits or allow them to experience the consequences. It's a tough thing -- good luck & let us know what happens.

--- Laurie

 

[chemgirl]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

Ditto this. You giving them money would absolutely be enabling them. I wouldn't even pay for an appointment with a financial planner, honestly. It sounds like they have plenty of money and could afford to pay for a financial planner themselves. It's all about priorities.

You hit the nail on the head. There kitchen sink was broken for months because they couldn't afford a plumber, but they bought the ipad in the meantime. Its just how they prioritize things. I almost think a psychologist would be better. I'll talk to DH about it and see if his brother and sister will get on board to talk to their parents about it.

As for this weekend, I am helping out by cooking lots of food so its one less thing for them to worry about. I don't mind helping them with groceries etc. but I feel wrong about giving them money.

 

[iheartscience]

wannabeMrsH, it's admirable that you help out your family when they need it, but it doesn't look like chemgirl's in-laws have even asked for help. chemgirl and Mr. chemgirl would essentially be giving the parents $10k each to blow on more crap since neither of the parents have made the decision to change the way they spend.

I think giving the in-laws the money would harm their relationship, not help it, because it will create some serious resentment when chemgirl and Mr. chemgirl see the $20k they gave up get spent on gadgets and cars.

 

[Haven]

wannaB--Do you really think Chemgirl's in-laws will turn their backs on them if they don't give them this money? That sounds insane to me. I cannot imagine a parent blaming their child for their financial woes because the child wouldn't give them thousands of dollars to help them out.

I think your story is a great example that different people react to these things in different ways. My family is close, and whether or not we give each other money has nothing to do with how close we are or how much time we spend together. In fact, since I turned my father's request for money down and told him why and helped him take the first steps to managing his own finances, we've become much closer.

I think giving a large sum of money to someone who isn't ready to handle it is an irresponsible thing to do, and if chemgirl did that, she wouldn't really be helping her in-laws at all. She would only be enabling the behavior that got them into this situation in the first place, and in the end, they aren't going to feel anything but horrible about it. If instead they help them get the guidance they need to manage their spending and take control of their financial well-being, they are going to be able to become financially independent, which is going to be better for them, and for their relationship with chemgirl and her DH, in the end.

I'm glad it's working for you and your family, wannaB, but I don't think that is the norm, especially if the recipients of the money do not become financially responsible over time.

 

[Karl_K]

Can I be very blunt?
Giving them money at this point is very much the wrong thing.
It will not help a thing.
Be prepared however to help out when things hit bottom and they start to recover and they will hit bottom.
At that point 10k will help, it will not now, it would make things worse.
If he feels he must do something now then just a token amount of a couple hundred is the max I would even consider.

 

[movie zombie]

they got themselves into the situation, they can get themselves out.

if $ is given now, it will be expected i the future.

i have lived this. my husband when i met him was in the habit of signing onto his mother's refi papers everytime he visited her. she used that $ to live a lifestyle beyond her means. then he met me and established a relationship. my point to him was that we had agreed to no more debt and if he continued to sign refi papers with her he was taking on more debt. her debt was her debt and needed to stay that way if we were to have a relationship that would move forward. at the time we were not married however we were looking at a home to buy together. i already had my home and we had bought a rental together. however, i would not have signed onto buying a larger home together had he continued to support her lifestyle.

to my husband's credit he read some books, examined our financial situation, looked at what our future could be and he told her "no" and asked me to marry him!

again, if $ is given now it will be expected in the future. the debts were not the result of medical problems, etc. absolutely no way do i think even a loan should be made much less a $ gift.

good luck on this. finances can tear a marriage apart.....i'd rather it be finances in my own relationship rather than my in-laws finances.

 

[Black Jade]

You can tell your husband that you disagree and why but you can't control how he will react to this one.
I do think that you're right and that it's unwise to bail them out, not so much because they made past mistakes as because there is no change and no realization that they are the ones who caused this.
But again, your husband may not agree.
Me and my husband don't have irresponsible parents--but I have incredibly irresponsible siblings and my husband has one brother who is now asking for money for the second time this year because of seriously unwise choices he made. also, my mother helps out my irresponsible siblings to the point where she is in trouble for money herself. sometimes we have lent money and sometimes we haven't. The 'rule' for us is, is it an amount of money that we can afford to/are comfortable losing? Because we will never get it back most likely and its not worth the relationship. $20k is kind of a big chunk of change and it sounds like it would be a strain for you. Try to explain to your husband why this is causing you discomfort--maybe write out first what you plan to say and look at it the next day. You are in a stronger position becasue you have taken charge of the family finances and brought the two of you back into the black, so he will realize that you speak of what you know, and hopefully not get too emotional and 'guilted' byhis parents.
Good luck to you. It's hard to be responsible and get punished for it.

 

[bee*]

I'd totally help them out if they are financially responsible. But this does not sound like they are financially responsible at all!

ditto. If they were taking responsibility for their finances then I'd help them out but the way that they're spending at the moment there's no way I would.

 

[chemgirl]

I want to thank everyone for their insight.

To clarify, my inlaws haven't specifically asked for money. They just talk about their finances around us a lot and tell us stories about how their friend's kids pay their bills. So far, I've responded with "Wow, your friends have such thoughtful and caring children" while staring blankly. Step-MIL has gone as far as to say she wished her kids would step-up like that. We both usually ignore it. MIL has borrowed money in the past and currently owes DH a few thousand that he lent her a few years ago. She does pay it back, but she gives him less than $50 per month and has hinted that she would like to stop making payments. I'm fine with the old loan being a gift.

DH isn't dead set on giving them the money, he just feels like he should do something to help them and paying off his dad's highest interest credit card would be a big help in the short term. That's why the number is $10k. His mother would be very upset if she didn't get the same amount because she makes less than his dad does and likes playing the victim.

I'm just not confident that giving the money would help. I'm pretty sure they'd just spend it all again because they're not making any sort of effort to change their behavior. His mom blew through $400k in 5 years and his dad makes far more than I do. I guess I just don't have sympathy for them. If it were a medical condition or they lost their jobs that would be one thing, but this is something completely different. I'm not altruistic enough to give them money without strings attached. I think I would look at the new designer shoes/bags/electronics/sparklies that they bought with our money and totally freak out!

 

[chemgirl]

I am in the opposite situation as you and I will tell you how my marriage manages this.

I am the oldest of 7 children. My parents have made less than 40k combined for as long as I can remember. When I went away to college, my dad sent me with $500 for the entire semester (for expenses, food, entertainment, etc.) and it was a FORTUNE. As I went through college and lost my scholarship, moved out and lost my first job, my parents always scraped what they could to help. They don't have retirement accounts and my dad is so far upside down on their house that even though he's been making payment for years, he has at least another 20 before the house will be theirs. My brothers have not always made good choices, one went and got married extremely young and promptly had 3 kids. He currently makes about 24k per year and is going through an ugly divorce in which he is getting custody of his kids. The other one was thrilled with the freedom and money that a college degree offered and made some other ugly, costly mistakes.

I've always stepped in and given them money (long before I met DH) precisely because when I messed up (doesn't everyone) no one left me on my own to deal with it. Yes, they might have yelled and lectured, but they helped. Now that I am married, I married a man who is very financially stable and comes from a family where everyone is SOL when they are in trouble. We used to have such UGLY fights about me sending my brothers money or buying my sister a designer bag or taking them on vacation or whatever. He was adamant that this behavior needed to stop because we were going to be financially drained.

Looking back on it, he actually had a horrible relationship with his siblings and everyone resented that DH could travel and buy whatever gadgets he wanted. When we were dating, his brother got in trouble and DH didn't do anything about it. I finally lost it and asked him, "Is this worth it to you? I understand that $4k is alot of money, but what is the value of GIVING your brother that money and having him around more often? How much is it worth that he come over and get to know your kids? How much is it worth it to you that he come with you to the boy things I don't want to be at? No matter how much money I give my family, I get so much more back from them. My brother's kids LOVE me and run with open arms when they see me. My sister actually talks to me and is my best friend. My parents get to see all their kids together in good times and bad and that is WORTH more money than I could ever give them. Don't you want that?"

DH finally relented and gave his brother the money he needed without strings, without a payback plan, just to help him out. That was the same year that they started taking his father to their alma mater basketball games. BIL is always at our house, he housesits when we go out of town, he took care of our dog when he died this year and most importantly, he was our best man at our wedding. He is back on his feet and even contributes financially to a charity that DH supports. Does he have a retirement account? I have no idea, it's none of my business. Is he in debt? I dont' know, our money didn't come with strings so we can't ask him that.

We are NOT financially drained. In fact, we are better than we have ever been. I have NO regrets about helping my family regardless of the choices they made to get themselves in their position. I've made horrible choices, too and it would suck if someone threw those choices in my face. DH freely admits that $4k was a great deal to get his relationship back on track with his brother. I know that I would never have married him if he was the kind of person to leave his family in their time of need, and I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT that our marriage would have serious problems (not to mention our relationship with our in-laws) if we turned our backs on family when they needed us.

My advice is to ask you: Is it worth it to you to lose your relationship with his parents over $20k? It is alot of money and you obviously have needs in your own household, but I promise that if your DH turns his back on his parents, they will believe in their hearts it is because of you (aren't we always the ones that turn their precious son evil?) and they will not keep this to themselves. They will call other siblings or cousins or aunts or family friends and tell them how much your DH has changed since he found you. Is it work $20k? It may be, not everyone can hand out that kind of money. Can he offer less money? Maybe $5k instead of $10?

I am sorry that you are in this position and I hope that you and your DH are able to do what is best for your marriage and your family. Hugs.

I really don't think they would cut us out because we don't give them money. We see them every other weekend. DH's mom lives across an ocean and we still see her for a few weeks every year. I don't really anticipate this changing. I think if anything, giving them money would drive us apart because there would be resentment whenever they showed off a new purchase. In this case, its not that they made a mistake. Its a habitual pattern that needs to be addressed before the problem can be solved.

Also, we have no problems with any of our siblings. We all get along and try to see each other as much as possible. DH talks to his sister almost every day and I visit with mine fairly often considering its a 6 hour drive. I don't really see how giving them money would make us any closer. I am fortunate though in that our sisters and brothers are doing as well, if not better, financially than we are. I'm not sure how we would act if the situation were different. I think what you're doing for your family is wonderful and I'm glad you are rewarded in your relationships.

 

[somethingshiny]

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.


Makes good sense.

I understand the want to help parents, but then you'll be helping them for the next 30-40 years. You're going to be raising your own family during that time and you can't be fixing the parents.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I see some potential triangulation between your DH and your inlaws. Your DH wants to help them, you do not. This leaves two choices, guilt and resentment. Sounds like your DH feels some guilt and like he should help his parents. If he helps them, that will cause resentment on your behalf. I agree that a wonderful thing to do would help them find solutions to their problem (overspending) instead of helping them with their symptoms (bills). Financial counselors, mental health counselors (what is their motivation for overspending? Every behavior starts with a motive), and support groups. The problem is NO ONE will CHANGE unless THEY want to change. Period. If they do not see the real route of their problems (them) they will blame their problems on everyone else (you). So, I think you need to have an open and honest conversation with your DH. Find out what help you both are willing to offer *together.* Then it is his parents decision to accept the help or reject it.

 

[Amys Bling]

I would help them sell their things and learn how to deal with their problem. I have no doubt that the 10K would just go to buying more things. Give them money is enabling them to continue with their poor spending habits. They sound like they're addicted to shopping. The one constant for dealing with any type of addict, don't enable them!

Ditto this. You giving them money would absolutely be enabling them. I wouldn't even pay for an appointment with a financial planner, honestly. It sounds like they have plenty of money and could afford to pay for a financial planner themselves. It's all about priorities.

absolutley agree! They spend and spend. They are not poor- they are mismanaged! truly- I cant imagine selling off your house and making good money and having that kind of debt. Sorry- but this is where their decisions have led them. You and your husband are a young couple starting off and giving his parents that kind of money (which- sorry to be rude- but I think they will spend unwisely) is money you could be saving and using for your futures.

they can afford a financial planner- and they clearly have luxury items they can sell off need be. I think DH needs to sit down with them and express concern for their spending/financials and suggest seeing a financial planner, but they can afford it if they are smart.

 

[AprilBaby]

They could sell all their stuff and pay off the loans, then rebuy stuff when they can afford it!

 

[Porridge]

No I would not give them any money because I do not think it would help them in any way.

 

[yssie]

Gosh, I'm sorry chemgirl, what an awful position to be in. I'd feel guilty either way, I think - either I give it and enable, or I withhold and know that they're suffering when I may have been able to help alleviate it


I really, really agree that just giving them 20k of your hard-earned money is not going to do anything - you have no reason to believe they'll use it (or save it) wisely, and having them show you their brand new plasma TV next time you come over will only further sour your feelings!


I like the idea of getting them a financial planner. I can't see them agreeing to pay for one though, with their priorities as they are... paying for the first session is likely the best way to *get* them in the door, and hopefully at that point they'll realize the value and budget for more accordingly.


If your DH feels guilty about leaving them hanging so to speak, perhaps put what you can comfortably afford - 5, 10, or even the 20k into an Oh Sh*t fund earmarked for them? You don't need to tell them, and DH has the peace of mind of knowing that if they get into something they really can't handle - a medical emergency of some sort, say - there's at least some guaranteed up-front cash.