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glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
guys,
I have been looking for a diamond for a solitaire engagement ring for a while and came up with this:
Please let me know if you think it is a good buy...
color D, clarity SI1, weight= 1.33, 7.16-7.12-4.32 dimmensions, crown agle/height=33 degrees/13.9%, pavilion depth=43.1%, table=57% symetry=v. good, polish=good, no flourencence, girdle is medium per GIA/ thin to slightly thick per sarin report, certified by gia with a sarin report
The price is $8600 and there are no inclusion visible to the naked eye, only one pinpoint visible under a 3x loupe. This would fall as a 2A cut or fine international trade while just short of "american ideal".

please advise as this is a big purchase,
thanks
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
You mention the pavilion depth percent, but what is the pavilion angle? The percentage is estimated, but the angle is actually measured and thus is a more accurate indication of the potential of the stone... Given a little time, it is likely that one of the on-line dealers could find you a comparable diamond with tighter ideal proportions AND either GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal polish and symmetry for the same price... Ideally, it would be nice to see that crown angle be a bit steeper, perhaps 34.3 - 34.8 degrees.
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
thanks for the comment niceice, the pavillion angle is 40.9, which is very good as I understand. Like you said, it seem that the thing this stone is lacking is a higher crown and crown angle but it still falls in the very good range. gemappraisers.com gives it a 1B-2A on cut and the cut adviser here gives it an excellent on fire and brilliance. I have been looking for some time and failed to find a stone of this color on this price range with a very good cut and I am wondering more if it is a good buy and not whether some dealer down the line could give better 6 months from now. In my eyes a good stone is a good stone and it is worth a certain price, and besides, I need it soon!
let me know what you thing niceice,
take care
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
anyone else care to comment, I have the stone on hold until tomorrow....
thanks
 

hoorray

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
2,798
You seem to want the D color, but you will pay a premimum for it simply due to it's rarity, not an eye-visible difference. I also like the colorless stones, and found that by considering E and F colors, (also colorless), I could upgrade the cut specs for the same $$, which will make a visible difference to the brilliance of the stone.
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
thanks for the reply, I am kind of set on the D color. It must be a guy thing! I want to be able to give my fiance something that I can say is the best color there is even if noone without a gemologist degree and a microscope can tell. I do know that cut is the most important quality but this stone was just short of ideal and still a fine cut (from what I can tell on the analysys tools I used) I compared other stones, ideal cuts, and regular cuts side to side and I could not tell the difference unless I put the stones they mass produce for mall stores next to an ideal cut stone. The ideal cut stones with AGL certification and from the dealers "elite" collection were G and H color for the same price. To the naked eye, I was told that if the only thing that falls short is the crown angle by a degree or so and everythig else is 1A or 1B then the untrained person would not know the difference and then only with an brilliance analysing tool will you be able to tell how one is better than the other....(taking GIA's symetry and polish out of the equation).
am I approaching this incorrectly?
and still noone has said if it is a ripoff, bad, ok, good, or very good buy yet?
thanks
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
this stone rated at 0.7 on the Holloway Cut Adviser. Any reason why at 8600 it would not be a good buy?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
One of my diamonds has very similar proportions and is gorgeous, but my concern is that your diamond has only GOOD Sym/Pol.
 

8*flash

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
59
You can do better, and honestly, an "Excellent" polish will be more impressive to her than a "D" color. "Good" polish? I'd steer clear but then again I clearly put cut over color anyday, as my I colored perfectly cut 8* will reflect. (no pun intended)
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
ok, I am comfused, everything I have read and researched said that "good" polish is fine. Here is the quote from this site:
"you will never see any difference between diamonds with slight polish defects and perfectly polished stones. Rarely is the polish of diamond so bad that it mars the beauty of a diamond. Only be concerned if the polish is rated as poor"

The symetry of "very good" was also said to be fine. Both symetry and polish as far as they were "good" and above should not be a determining factor in the "cut" and are gravy on the turkey as they say. A couple of sites even said only an expert would see the difference between a good polish and excellent under magnification and not with just a eye inspection. Symetry of very good would mean that no visible diferences are present for the most part.

Is this all wrong? I looked for a stone which would be beautiful and cut to good proportions, without concentrating on the polish and symetry as long as it was good.

After a quick search on the net (bluenile, mondera, diamond.com)The stones with "excellent/excellent" polish/symetry are over a thousand more and even color E are more. I can not find anything that is "better" with this good a cut in the D color.
So what would be a good price for this stone?
Is what I read over the past few weeks wrong about "good" symetry and polish?
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441
Not all diamonds can be given Excellent polish; quite often the cutters are limited by the crystal. Ditto for symmetry. "Very good" means just that. If you don't want to drop a color grade or two to get an Ex/Ex within your budget, I think that's a valid choice, though maybe not one I would make myself. If everything else looks good, and you like the stone, I wouldn't let the polish grade stop you. But, as we always say around here, it would be worth your while to get the stone indepedently appraised before you close the deal.
 

8*flash

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
59
----------------
On 7/17/2003 6:16:41 PM LawGem wrote:

Not all diamonds can be given Excellent polish; quite often the cutters are limited by the crystal. Ditto for symmetry. "Very good" means just that. If you don't want to drop a color grade or two to get an Ex/Ex within your budget, I think that's a valid choice, though maybe not one I would make myself. If everything else looks good, and you like the stone, I wouldn't let the polish grade stop you. But, as we always say around here, it would be worth your while to get the stone indepedently appraised before you close the deal.
----------------
I'll agree with that. My Eightstar has Excellent symmetry and just Very Good polish for that exact reason. But settling on "good" polish because you are set on the best color which is absolutely not even remotely noticeable, isnt something I would do personally but everyone is different. The cut is the most noticeable "C" so why skimp on it?
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
which is where I am getting comfused, and bare with me, I am not an expert by any means, all the sites I visited do not count polish and part of the "cut". They define it as the dimmensions, angles, etc. And say that polish is the finishing of the stone which is often over-valued since it can not be differenciated with the naked eye on most occasions. So is having an "excellent polish worth paying over a thousand more for a d color, or going down to maybe an F. My comfusion falls in when polish and symetry are not considered determining cut factors (according to gremappraisers.com's tool) and and most sites say good polish is mostly not different to the eye than excellent or definately very good. So color is not noticeable for the most part, according to the information gathered, neither is polish if it is good or above...so why go down 2 color shades?
 

8*flash

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
59
from niceice.com:

"The brilliance of a diamond with Excellent Polish will be noticeably superior to that of a diamond with a polish rating of Good."

You decide.
 

caratgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
634
Hi Glt,

Well, I can't stay out of this fray! I have an Ex Ex F color diamond and a Good Good J color diamond, and I see the color difference more than the polish grading. I think that you are all being way too snobby about this diamond. If you want a nice but not spectacular stone with a better color that pops, just go for it. I honestly can't see the difference with the polish. I mean, after all, diamonds are really small things. A 2A cut will look just great. My F color is a 1A and my J color is a 2B, and I do see a difference in fire, but more due to side by side comparison. I just happen to be a cut snot, but had the budget to justify it.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, I just wanted to give you another point of view.
 

glt4392

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
31
thanks for the different point of view! The stone is actually a 1B cut according to the diamondappraisers.com cut analyzer and a .7 on the cut adviser. I do not know what else to go by to look at the cut. According to those two tools this is a very well cut stone. Since I don't know a thing about diamonds other than what I have learned, read and compared while shopping around I figured I give you guys a shot for advise. I was under the impression that polish is not that big of a deal but some here make it sound like it would make a huge difference. Any idea what the AGS cut would be for this diamond with those dimmensions? I am looking around again and for the same price I would have to go probably to an F and if it is a branded stone to near colorless. Decisions, decisions! Is this stone that FAR OFF that it would be a notisable difference with an AGS0? I compared all the dimmensions and it looked to me like the only thing off was the crown by a degree or so. That is why I looked at it thinking that it was so close that a difference would not be notisable and the fact that it was a D was perfect. Kind of getting an ideal without paying for one....my train of thought was. Also, noone has said whether with all the info given is 8600 a good price, fair price or what....
 
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