Help with sapphire?

[nonai]

Hi I'm interested in this sapphire but it looks like it has maybe a crack? is it still worth getting?

Unheated, 8x6x4.5, $260

 

[nonai]

More pics

 

[gingercurls]

Hi @nonai

I would ask the vendor about the inclusion. Also, if I were considering this stone, I would pass on it because the inclusion can be seen from the top of the stone and it looks to be rather large.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I agree with @gingercurls on both counts. Welcome to the forum!!

 

[nonai]

Thank you! I love the color though and the star is so nice. If I didn't mind the inclusion is the price worth it?

The vendor just gave a small explanation that there is a "scratch" on it that shows up on the top.

 

[gingercurls]

Do you know if the sapphire has been treated?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you! I love the color though and the star is so nice. If I didn't mind the inclusion is the price worth it?

The vendor just gave a small explanation that there is a "scratch" on it that shows up on the top.

Sure, if you really like it, and don't mind the inclusion, I think the price is reasonable.

 

[nonai]

Do you know if the sapphire has been treated?

It says no heat, no treatment

Sure, if you really like it, and don't mind the inclusion, I think the price is reasonable.

Do you know of any other sapphires that have similar color? If not I might just get it. Would be a nice stone for a "cheap" ring (not fine jewelry), like on silver or titanium even.

 

[pokerface]

The first photos showing the star are extremely edited/photoshopped. The star is going to be barely visible. All you are going to see is the giant chip. And without a reputable lab report, you have no idea if the sapphire is heated, treated - or synthetic. It frankly looks like lab sapphire to me - that the back looks almost identical to the front is a major red flag. A natural star sapphire back just doesn't look like that. The vendor could be telling the truth about treatment without disclosing that it is synthetic material. I would keep looking unless you want to grossly overpay for a chipped, lab sapphire. You will be able to do better for your money,

 

[Autumn in New England]

Do you know of any other sapphires that have similar color? If not I might just get it. Would be a nice stone for a "cheap" ring (not fine jewelry), like on silver or titanium even.

I'm well-versed in traditional sapphire, but I don't know all that much about star sapphire, to be honest (as beautiful as they are). And I feel like the buying criteria are a bit different. Let me go ahead and tag @Starstruck8. He is a star sapphire connoisseur (with quite the collection). Perhaps he knows where to find them at varying price points.

 

[nonai]

The first photos showing the star are extremely edited/photoshopped. The star is going to be barely visible. All you are going to see is the giant chip. And without a reputable lab report, you have no idea if the sapphire is heated, treated - or synthetic. It frankly looks like lab sapphire to me - that the back looks almost identical to the front is a major red flag. A natural star sapphire back just doesn't look like that. The vendor could be telling the truth about treatment without disclosing that it is synthetic material. I would keep looking unless you want to grossly overpay for a chipped, lab sapphire. You will be able to do better for your money,

I was wondering if the color is as saturated as it is in those photos.







These angles don't show the star but I thought it was bc of the angle







These pics are from the video

 

[nonai]

I'm well-versed in traditional sapphire, but I don't know all that much about star sapphire, to be honest (as beautiful as they are). And I feel like the buying criteria are a bit different. Let me go ahead and tag @Starstruck8. He is a star sapphire connoisseur (with quite the collection). Perhaps he knows where to find them at varying price points.

Thank you no problem if there aren't any. It doesn't even have to be star sapphire. I just like the color

 

[LilAlex]

I was wondering if the color is as saturated as it is in those photos.

It looks like it has almost no color at all. In a cab, where the light path is short (not down over and up), the stone only appears as blue as the material intrinsically is. Have never seen a cab with a "window" but in the first photo of your post two above this one, it feels like I am seeing the fingers right through the stone. I don't think this will look good no matter how you mount it. May be fun to look at, though.

 

[Avondale]

Can't help you about the sapphire, but I want to draw attention to the certificate it comes with and maybe the others can chime in with more info.

When people say IGL, they usually mean International Gemological Laboratories (https://www.igl-labs.com/). From what I know they're considered reputable enough to not lie about a stone's origin and treatments.

However, the acronym IGL allows for a lot of... freedom in naming. And so you have:
- international gemological laboratory
- inter gem laboratory
- independent gemological laboratory
- indraprastha gemological laboratories
and so on, and so on, and so on, those are just the first few on the first page of google results. All named IGL. And if you don't care enough to look closer, you might never know this isn't the lab you thought it was.

 

[Starstruck8]

I'm well-versed in traditional sapphire, but I don't know all that much about star sapphire, to be honest (as beautiful as they are). And I feel like the buying criteria are a bit different. Let me go ahead and tag @Starstruck8. He is a star sapphire connoisseur (with quite the collection). Perhaps he knows where to find them at varying price points.

I'm ashamed to say (true confession time, throw me out of PriceScope) the I (in Australia) routinely overpay by US standards. So I'm not much use on price.

The first photos showing the star are extremely edited/photoshopped. The star is going to be barely visible. All you are going to see is the giant chip. And without a reputable lab report, you have no idea if the sapphire is heated, treated - or synthetic. It frankly looks like lab sapphire to me - that the back looks almost identical to the front is a major red flag. A natural star sapphire back just doesn't look like that. The vendor could be telling the truth about treatment without disclosing that it is synthetic material. I would keep looking unless you want to grossly overpay for a chipped, lab sapphire. You will be able to do better for your money,

I'm not seeing this. The back is roughly cut and deliberately roughened. This is absolutely normal for translucent star stones. But there are some worries. The colour looks uniform. There is no obvious zoning and no silvery fingerprint inclusions - both are common in (affordable) star stones. But this certainly isn't definitive either way. Note that IGL - Inter Gem Laboratory - is not the well-known IGL (International Gemological Laboratories), as the unsuspecting might be led to think. I've no idea whether they are legit.

It looks like it has almost no color at all. In a cab, where the light path is short (not down over and up), the stone only appears as blue as the material intrinsically is. Have never seen a cab with a "window" but in the first photo of your post two above this one, it feels like I am seeing the fingers right through the stone. I don't think this will look good no matter how you mount it. May be fun to look at, though.

Agree that the colour is very weak - the stone is almost colourless, with a slight purple tinge. (Of course, this may be what you like.) The first group of pictures are overlit and oversaturated. I think the first picture in the second group is likely to be a fair indication of what the stone will look like in direct sun, and the picture above the report shows what it will look like in soft light.

I'm sorry I can't be more help.

You may find this thread interesting: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...tar-sapphires-and-rubies.231433/#post-4171026 . Note that there are many beautiful and fascinating stones, but very few (none?) are uncompromised.

 

[pokerface]

If OP likes the color and doesn't care about the star, I recommend looking into amethyst, which comes in an identical shade for less than a 10th of the price.

Look what I found on Etsy:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1085126323/753-cttw-amethyst-round-cabochon?ref=share_v4_lx

 

[nonai]

Can't help you about the sapphire, but I want to draw attention to the certificate it comes with and maybe the others can chime in with more info.

When people say IGL, they usually mean International Gemological Laboratories (https://www.igl-labs.com/). From what I know they're considered reputable enough to not lie about a stone's origin and treatments.

However, the acronym IGL allows for a lot of... freedom in naming. And so you have:
- international gemological laboratory
- inter gem laboratory
- independent gemological laboratory
- indraprastha gemological laboratories
and so on, and so on, and so on, those are just the first few on the first page of google results. All named IGL. And if you don't care enough to look closer, you might never know this isn't the lab you thought it was.

It says Inter Gem Lab underneath. I don't know much about who are labs but I would think at least their photo is accurate.

I'm ashamed to say (true confession time, throw me out of PriceScope) the I (in Australia) routinely overpay by US standards. So I'm not much use on price.



I'm not seeing this. The back is roughly cut and deliberately roughened. This is absolutely normal for translucent star stones. But there are some worries. The colour looks uniform. There is no obvious zoning and no silvery fingerprint inclusions - both are common in (affordable) star stones. But this certainly isn't definitive either way. Note that IGL - Inter Gem Laboratory - is not the well-known IGL (International Gemological Laboratories), as the unsuspecting might be led to think. I've no idea whether they are legit.



Agree that the colour is very weak - the stone is almost colourless, with a slight purple tinge. (Of course, this may be what you like.) The first group of pictures are overlit and oversaturated. I think the first picture in the second group is likely to be a fair indication of what the stone will look like in direct sun, and the picture above the report shows what it will look like in soft light.

I'm sorry I can't be more help.

You may find this thread interesting: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...tar-sapphires-and-rubies.231433/#post-4171026 . Note that there are many beautiful and fascinating stones, but very few (none?) are uncompromised.

Thanks, I'll check out the thread

If OP likes the color and doesn't care about the star, I recommend looking into amethyst, which comes in an identical shade for less than a 10th of the price.

Look what I found on Etsy:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1085126323/753-cttw-amethyst-round-cabochon?ref=share_v4_lx

I did think it kind of looks like amethyst, but amethysts don't have the same shine. Also, looking back on it, I actually do like the star.



So, taking all the info into account, does anyone know what a "better" price would be, or at least how much would you pay for it?

 

[nonai]

He sent me two more videos





the back


The second video does make it feel overpriced. Still a nice light purple color though. If the star really shows up like that in strong light I might buy it, maybe not for $250 though

 

[LilAlex]

The second video does make it feel overpriced. Still a nice light purple color though. If the star really shows up like that in strong light I might buy it, maybe not for $250 though

There is really no way to accurately gauge pricing at the bottom end of the gem quality scale -- and at the tippy top, either; in each instance it's just what you are willing to pay. How much is a broken window worth?

Sounds like you are more keen on figuring out if this is truly "worth" $250 than if it is worth even owning. No one here can answer that for you. The only thing I am confident of is that you will not be pleasantly surprised by its in-person appearance.

 

[pokerface]

It says Inter Gem Lab underneath. I don't know much about who are labs but I would think at least their photo is accurate.

If you don't know what the lab is, how can you feel confident that the photo is accurate? It is entirely possible that the vendor has invented a lab and is printing its own certificates, altering the photos, and saying whatever is most favorable to the vendor. That is why it is important to use a reputable, third party lab. There is no way the star will show up strongly except for directly under a pen light, if then. Almost 1/4 of the bottom of the stone has chipped. Even if this stone is a natural, untreated sapphire (and I don't think it is), it is not a good deal.

 

[Sibsgirl]

It is pale, and material that transparent won't show a star easily. However, the video stills show typical movement of a star within the sapphire. If you like the color and it's a reasonable price for you, go ahead. Just be aware that you will rarely see the star effect with this one.

 

[nonai]

There is really no way to accurately gauge pricing at the bottom end of the gem quality scale -- and at the tippy top, either; in each instance it's just what you are willing to pay. How much is a broken window worth?

Sounds like you are more keen on figuring out if this is truly "worth" $250 than if it is worth even owning. No one here can answer that for you. The only thing I am confident of is that you will not be pleasantly surprised by its in-person appearance.

Well that is what I'm trying to figure out, and I know it's up to me if it's worth that, but I don't want to pay more than what a stone "should" really cost. After all, $250 can be better spent on a better stone if this one isn't worth that much. That's why I'm wondering if anyone here would say they would pay that much for that particular stone.

May I ask how much you paid for yours, Starstruck8?

If you don't know what the lab is, how can you feel confident that the photo is accurate? It is entirely possible that the vendor has invented a lab and is printing its own certificates, altering the photos, and saying whatever is most favorable to the vendor. That is why it is important to use a reputable, third party lab. There is no way the star will show up strongly except for directly under a pen light, if then. Almost 1/4 of the bottom of the stone has chipped. Even if this stone is a natural, untreated sapphire (and I don't think it is), it is not a good deal.

I didn't say I was confident about it, just that the stone is on a white surface and maybe it's accurate. I didn't consider photoshopping.

It is pale, and material that transparent won't show a star easily. However, the video stills show typical movement of a star within the sapphire. If you like the color and it's a reasonable price for you, go ahead. Just be aware that you will rarely see the star effect with this one.

Thanks! That's good info.

Just wondering, how did he get a star effect on his video? It's pretty clear on it.

I found another one, but again not sure how good the quality is.

3.19 carat, $340 (negotiable), 9x7x4.5, untreated. No certificate

 

[Autumn in New England]

I found another one, but again not sure how good the quality is.

3.19 carat, $340 (negotiable), 9x7x4.5, untreated. No certificate

Just in looking at these photos, the quality of this stone appears to be much better than the first. Perhaps you can negotiate a good price with the condition that a reputable lab must certify it (and be sure to have a generous return policy). Good luck!

 

[Starstruck8]

Well that is what I'm trying to figure out, and I know it's up to me if it's worth that, but I don't want to pay more than what a stone "should" really cost. After all, $250 can be better spent on a better stone if this one isn't worth that much. That's why I'm wondering if anyone here would say they would pay that much for that particular stone.

May I ask how much you paid for yours, Starstruck8?

With apologies, I'll plead the 5th amendment. I can say with some confidence that to buy the second stone from a reputable B&M store in Australia would cost at least 3 times as much. But that's not what you want to know.

Conventional quality factors for star stones include: bright star, sharp star (as opposed to soft, diffuse star), correct orientation (i.e. a ray aligned with the long axis), translucency (more transparent is better), strong body colour. It's a very rare and very expensive stone indeed that ticks all the boxes - I've never seen one in person.

My best (and most expensive - don't ask) stone is this, which has excellent translucency and body colour, but weak star:


For some examples with prices, check out this search result from Lang Antiques:https://www.langantiques.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Star+Sapphire
You can see that even at quite hefty prices (even allowing for the antique factor), many of these stones are pretty compromised.

My point: if you are looking for a relatively inexpensive stone, some serious compromises will be necessary. Your first stone had excellent translucency but weak star, weak body colour and a disfiguring crack. The second stone has an excellent bright star but looks practically opaque. The body colour is a matter for personal taste. Be warned that in diffuse light, the body colour will be less saturated - it will probably look something like the base as seen in the bottom left pic of your post.

A warning: the only light in which you can count on seeing the star is direct sun. Indoors, you may sometimes see the star with overhead lights. But in any soft light (i.e. most of the time), you won't see the star. This applies to all star stones, regardless of quality. Star stones are fascinating, but anyone considering one must be prepared for this.

After all that, I can't help you on the price. It's a good bright star, and you may like the opaqueness and body colour. If there's a good return policy, it may be worth ordering, if only to see for yourself how star stones work in different lighting.

 

[nonai]

Just in looking at these photos, the quality of this stone appears to be much better than the first. Perhaps you can negotiate a good price with the condition that a reputable lab must certify it (and be sure to have a generous return policy). Good luck!

Thanks, I am thinking about it!

With apologies, I'll plead the 5th amendment. I can say with some confidence that to buy the second stone from a reputable B&M store in Australia would cost at least 3 times as much. But that's not what you want to know.

Conventional quality factors for star stones include: bright star, sharp star (as opposed to soft, diffuse star), correct orientation (i.e. a ray aligned with the long axis), translucency (more transparent is better), strong body colour. It's a very rare and very expensive stone indeed that ticks all the boxes - I've never seen one in person.

My best (and most expensive - don't ask) stone is this, which has excellent translucency and body colour, but weak star:


For some examples with prices, check out this search result from Lang Antiques:https://www.langantiques.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Star+Sapphire
You can see that even at quite hefty prices (even allowing for the antique factor), many of these stones are pretty compromised.

My point: if you are looking for a relatively inexpensive stone, some serious compromises will be necessary. Your first stone had excellent translucency but weak star, weak body colour and a disfiguring crack. The second stone has an excellent bright star but looks practically opaque. The body colour is a matter for personal taste. Be warned that in diffuse light, the body colour will be less saturated - it will probably look something like the base as seen in the bottom left pic of your post.

A warning: the only light in which you can count on seeing the star is direct sun. Indoors, you may sometimes see the star with overhead lights. But in any soft light (i.e. most of the time), you won't see the star. This applies to all star stones, regardless of quality. Star stones are fascinating, but anyone considering one must be prepared for this.

After all that, I can't help you on the price. It's a good bright star, and you may like the opaqueness and body colour. If there's a good return policy, it may be worth ordering, if only to see for yourself how star stones work in different lighting.

I won't judge how much you spend! I know there are standards for gemstones but I'm looking more for just something nice to have, not really for the highest fine jewelry grade. I'm giving it some thought because even if I can do a return, I don't really want to bother with the return cost and risks of sending out packages internationally. It says purplish gray so I don't know how purple it really is. Oh, and nice ring!

 

[Sibsgirl]

Starstruck's advice is spot-on. The stones I enjoy wearing most are those which have the best body color precisely because the star doesn't often come out to play. However, they DO need to have a star that becomes apparent for me at some point when I wear them. The first stone you posted will have a fainter star that shows in bright sunlight or under a flashlight in a darkened room. The positive is that you seem to like its color.

The second stone will have a much more apparent star. However, the more opaque stars often take on a grayish hue, and I expect, as Starstruck said, that it will look most like the bottom row of photos you have posted of it. If you are okay with that shade, give it a go.