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Help with evaluating this IdealScope and ASET

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
I came across another diamond that I thought was pretty decent. It's cheaper than others I have listed at $12K and has the following specs:

Round
1.58ct
VVS1
Color H
Fluor: Med blue
Polish, symmetry, cut: Ex
Depth: 62.3
Table: 56
Cr angle: 35.5
Pav angle: 40.6
Med to slightly thick girdle

The IdealScope is mostly pink, not red. Is that a sign of poor light return or is it just the setting that it was taken in? I do notice more whites in the center of the ASET as well. It has a 1.3 HCA. Opinions?

gianum2.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
Not bad at all, but the leakage is probably because the crown angle is a little on the high side.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
JRRTolkCut|1458951376|4011136 said:
Hello,

Just my thoughts about the images you posted. Seems like the IS and ASET confirm there is a bit of light leakage under the table.
http://[no affiliate links]/2014/12/aset-reference-charts/ Not bad, just not something i'd settle for. Excellent light return is a must for me, but your budget dictates.

Triangles in the arrows images show very minor symmetry issues, and clefts in the hearts images, and different size V's indicate that this diamond is typical of non H&A commercial diamonds, but of course, if you were looking for H&A you'd be paying much more. But of course this is acceptable considering this is a GIA Triple X, and looks fine for what you are buying.

The color of your Idealscope will vary depending on photography conditions and backlighting, so because yours is pink, nothing is wrong with it.

Pricing is good.

RealMarket Value™ Report
Report Date:
25 March, 2016
Shape:
Round
Carat Weight:
1.58
Grading Report/Certificate:
GIA
Clarity Grade:
VVS1
Color Grade:
H
Cut Grade:
Ideal/Excellent
Suggested Retail - Internet Price:
$14,024 - 3% Flouro Trade Discount = $13607

So, if you consider it to be an acceptable compromise within your budget, go for it. All in all an okay deal for the $11,817.33 that B2C is asking, I just don't think you'll find any fans in a forum where cut is king.

Just to play devils advocate and offer another option, here is another diamond in my quick search that scores a 1.1 HCA with 4 ex's and is offered at a equally competitive price. http://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=2817951 I'm sure you could ask if your preferred vendor can source that stone as well as pictures for you.

Food for thought.
Thanks for the detailed response. No one has ever bothered to explain what I needed to actually look at in those Hearts, Arrows, IdealScope and ASETs before. That really helps. I've also never seen the RealMarket Value calculator before. I've been on these forums for about a year researching on/off and I still feel completely new to this.

Your lack of enthusiasm for this diamond speaks volumes. I will likely cross it off my list. My budget is up to $15K for the entire diamond + setting. And I don't have a preferred diamond seller. I'd be happy to take any recommendations.

A few questions arises from your post though. I hope you or someone else can help answer them:
1. Is there a reason not to buy it from US Certed? Their listings are always on the search. Are there extra fees because they are located in Canada (customs fees? exchange rates?) and I'm in US (NY to be exact)?
2. How do you make that call on the diamond you recommend without seeing ASET and IdealScope? I know HCA > 2 is a rule-out criteria, but I thought you need ASET and IdealScope to really make the call on cut.
3. I attached another set of photos of a diamond I was looking at previously that had green fluorescence (still not sure what to make of that). Would you say these images are worse than the image I posted in my original post? There is asymmetry in the arrows and the Vs are not all the same on the hearts. But the IdealScope and ASET looked decent to me and appear better than the OP ones. Is that a proper read of these images?

gianum.jpg
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
diamondseeker2006|1458962364|4011207 said:
Not bad at all, but the leakage is probably because the crown angle is a little on the high side.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
Nice. I'll use these for reference. Thanks.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
You are welcome!

I think the last set of images you posted look good, but while I really like blue fluorescence, I would hesitate with the idea of green. I'd really like to see it, though!

I do not know how complicated it is to buy from Canada, but there are good, low cost vendors in the US. But if you are trying to avoid NY based vendors, then maybe you could consider looking at Whiteflash in Houston. They specialize in superideal cuts, but their expert selection and premium select stones are generally well cut and less expensive. Plus they provide the ASET images, etc.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
JRRTolkCut|1458980149|4011246 said:
3. Green Floro? Gotta make sure she is okay with that. I know Red and Orange trades for a premium due to rarity, Yellow doesn't... Green not sure, and Blue in lower colors trades for a premium. Trade member verify? ASET looks good, minimal leakage around the girdle, but strong light performance. H&A Images look better than your average GIA 3x. Which is to say they look good. What does it score on the HCA? Run it through, ideally you want to be also in the AGS 0 box for angles and % as well. Not a must, but nice to have for a tighter cut, and more predictable performance. Normally diamonds like that will also score well on Enchanted's cut score calculator. Four excellents on the HCA typically are shallower cut diamonds that some people may or may not like. The vast majority of diamonds that people pick are one or over. (3EX, 1 VG)
Thanks again for the detailed response. That second diamond I mentioned has an HCA of 1.6, (3Ex, 1VG = spread). I wasn't sure what you meant by AGS0 box for angles and %, but I presume it's similar to what diamondseeker was mentioning. The details are here:

Depth 62.3
Table 55
Crown angle 35
Pav angle 40.8
Girdle med
Crown height 15.5
Pav Depth 43

The price calculator has gives it a much higher retail price than it's currently selling for, but I suppose that's because the green fluoro is bringing it down. I had someone mention the green fluoro isn't a big deal, but I have no clue how it really looks in person. Not sure if the green will actually make it look yellower. Instead, someone mentioned that he/she is more concerned with the cut. Based on the calculators, I thought it was an excellent cut.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
JRRTolkCut|1459037908|4011508 said:
When you input diamonds into the HCA, you will get a value showing the predicted performance of a diamond bases on the crown and pavilion angle relationships or depths. Diamonds falling into the dotted range are in the AGS 0 ideal cut range. Ideally you want to find diamonds within this range. Not to say that beauties dont exist outside the range, however, diamonds within this range are considered by the mainstream to be "ideal", due to AGS having the most stringent range requirements. With all diamonds of low HCA, you will need to take an ASET and idealscope, as the HCA's limited inputs don't take into account all of the facets. Check it again and see where you fall.. Notice you are using enchanted to do your searches. Diamonds of 96 or greater tend to be within this range with their cut score system.
Checked HCA again and it's on the solid white line and well within the dotted white line. Indeed, I'm using Enchanted because they have the most images available.

I've emailed a few of those free diamond advice people and I've had very opposite answers regarding the green fluoro. One guy says he likes green fluoro, but doesn't like the cut. Another called green fluoro the "kiss of death".

I've started to look for other diamonds. Mostly in the 1.5/G/VS1/GIA3X range to keep within budget. I hate how most places don't have IdealScope and ASET though.

You've mentioned Zoara. Their prices seem decent. Any experience with them? I've never heard of them before.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,427
The back lighting is brighter than it should be in those images is the biggest issue not as much the diamond itself.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,427
This image with the red turned off in ASET shows how some areas have small amounts of white mixed in.
When the back lighting is too bright this gets over emphasized.
Same with IS.
There is a fine line determining when its an issue with the diamond or back lighting but the washed out appearance is a good clue.

_36869.jpg
 
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