Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jeweler.

[nyc-cs]

Her mom is a jeweler and deals with diamonds, so I don't want to screw up here. I would definately find a better deal if I get it through her mother however I feel that's too easy and want to gift her something completely from my own --love does weird things to logic so I'm not going to try to explain this one! Please help me on my decision

As with most guys, I am not sure how much to spend without going overboard. I love her and would spend the money to make her feel appreciated, however I'd like to avoid on paying for high-end "specs" which cost significantly more yet with diminishing return on the aesthetic side. Over the last few days, I've been reading this forum and educating myself on the selection and pricing, and after going thorugh many informative posts I have my preferences down to this range:

Preferences:
Initial Diamond Price range: $10-20k
Shape: Round/Hearts and Arrows
Carat range: 1.25 - 1.60 (her ring size is 3.5, and have to avoid any carats in the 1.4-1.49 range)
Clarity range: VVS1 - VS2
Color range: F-H (worth it to go higher like D-E?)
Cut range: SuperIdeal (ACA, Signature-Plus, etc) - Ideal

And based on the preferences above, I've narrowed down my selection to one stone which turned out to be lower end of the price range ($10-11k) however there's something about this one particular stone which calls out to me, for example we're both Chinese and while she was born in the US, her mom probably subscribes to Chinese belief that 2 and 8 are lucky numbers and any pair of the same number is considered lucky and this diamond is 1.288 carat. The number "4" is to be avoided since it is associated with death. Other than this diamond, I found its very tough to pick from a crowded field which just seems like numbers and specs to me.

Since I'm ordering this online, I'm not sure how the final product looks like. I have this stone on hold and have until tomorrow to pulll the trigger. Please tell me what you think of this one below or if you have recommendations to where to spend extra $$$ to step up, I would like to hear it. Many thanks in advance for the any advice/feedback on this!

Also my one concern is the color of "H" --out of speculation I thought I preferred a F/G but I went to the jewelry store today to look and realized that it's not that big of a difference. I could notice a slight tint one example of a H compare to the F at the store but on the other hand I looked at another stone that's a D/Good Cut and it looked worse/less whiter than a G with Excellent cut. Does the ideal cut make the diamond look whiter? Is H okay (or is it worth spending 30-40% money to get E/F/G) if the cut is ideal/AGS000? As comparison, I saw this 1.25 D color/Excellent cut stone at the store selling for $20k and I was not impressed.

 

[stone-cold11]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

Looks good.

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

I don't understand why would you not try to work with her mother who knows alot about diamond and can probably get you a great stone with your money. It doesn't have to be a "easy pick" for you, you two can work together to find a diamond for her which maybe a great experience for you two. Also knowing she is a jeweler and you decided to buy a diamond somewhere else, I'm not sure how will it make your gf's mother feel.

 

[nyc-cs]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

I don't understand why would you not try to work with her mother who knows alot about diamond and can probably get you a great stone with your money. It doesn't have to be a "easy pick" for you, you two can work together to find a diamond for her which maybe a great experience for you two. Also knowing she is a jeweler and you decided to buy a diamond somewhere else, I'm not sure how will it make your gf's mother feel.

Hi minin,

You're definitely right in that logic and I would need to make sure her mom doesn't feel that way. This being a personal gift and between me and my gf, so I would like to completely do it on my own --this would be along the lines of buying a gift from someone to give back to them, though from her mom but the idea is the same.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

:


And based on the preferences above, I've narrowed down my selection to one stone which turned out to be lower end of the price range ($10-11k) however there's something about this one particular stone which calls out to me, for example we're both Chinese and while she was born in the US, her mom probably subscribes to Chinese belief that 2 and 8 are lucky numbers and any pair of the same number is considered lucky and this diamond is 1.288 carat. The number "4" is to be avoided since it is associated with death. Other than this diamond, I found its very tough to pick from a crowded field which just seems like numbers and specs to me.

we need to find you a D IF 2.888 ct or a 3.288 ct..

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

I don't understand why would you not try to work with her mother who knows alot about diamond and can probably get you a great stone with your money. It doesn't have to be a "easy pick" for you, you two can work together to find a diamond for her which maybe a great experience for you two. Also knowing she is a jeweler and you decided to buy a diamond somewhere else, I'm not sure how will it make your gf's mother feel.

Hi minin,

You're definitely right in that logic and I would need to make sure her mom doesn't feel that way. This being a personal gift and between me and my gf, so I would like to completely do it on my own --this would be along the lines of buying a gift from someone to give back to them, though from her mom but the idea is the same.

Yes, I totally understand that. But do you know what shape or setting that you gf likes or wants? My fiance wanted to surprise me, he did lots of study about the diamond and searched many many places, spent countless hours to find the ring. I said yes to him, but I've had one type of ring in my mind since years ago. If he would only make a quick phone call to my best friend (who he knows decent too) he'd know what to pick. Being the mean girl, I told him since I believe relationship should based on honesty and I'm the one who has to wear that ring for the rest of my life. He was completely fine with it and glad I told him the truth, also wished he'd call my friend instead of try to do this all on his own.
I totally understand you want to do this by yourself to show her your love, but I'm just saying sometimes it's not a bad thing to ask for help or advice. It may even be a good thing for both of you. I had fun picking out a ring together with him after he returned the one he got, not every girl likes the ring their other half find, and certainly not every girl have the courage to tell the truth and would rather wait for a upgrade 5 or so years into the marriage, but it is not easy to wear a ring that you don't love everyday that's a symbol of your love and marriage.

 

[Hospatogi]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

I understand why you want to purchase the ring on your own but think about this as an opportunity to get closer to your mother in law to be. I am certain she would absolutely love to be part of one of the most important moments of her daughter's life. You would still be purchasing the ring with your own money so it would not be as if her mom is gifting you the ring and perhaps she may even know what your gf would love for an engagement ring unless you know that your gf and her mother have very different senses of style . I def would at the very least talk to her mom and see how she feels about you doing the ring all on your own. And if it doesnt hurt her feelings than thats great and wth all the knowledgeable ladies and gents on this site helping you.. you are going to have one fab ring ! Best of luck

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

Hmm, this is a tough situation. I don't feel that her mother needs to know before she does about the engagement, so in a way, I can see getting the diamond on your own. Quality will be super important in this case so the mother cannot say anything negative about the stone. So you are wise to go with AGS0.

Does the mother wear diamonds? Some ladies here were just posting about women in some Asian countries preferring higher color stones. So if you think that might be the case with her mother, I might consider F color instead.

I would set the stone in an inexpensive tiffany style setting if she has not shown you specific settings she likes. Then when you propose, you can tell her that you will let her pick out the permanent setting.

 

[frankiextah]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

hi ! i am chinese too and i totally understand where you come from culturally ... it's GOOD that you do not involve the mother (even though she is in the diamond industry)... believe me, there are A LOT of consequences / repercussions when you do involve this project with the girl's mom ... especially someone who is a chinese mom, i'm sure you know what i mean ... all chinese mothers (my own mother, and many chinese mothers i know) are pretty possessive of their daughters (albeit in a good way), can be a little over controlling and overbearing in situations like that... of course they all want the BESTEST for their daughters... and something bitter or hurtful can result from this. you might end up getting something that neither you or your girl truly wanted. a good trick to "involve" your future jeweler mother-in-law would be to involve her in the wedding band making process

my mom, coming from a family of diamond dealers and jewelers in HK, was totally impressed that my then fiance (now husband), who is 100% caucasian american, found and bought the diamond for my e-ring all on his own. to my side of the family, getting that diamond all on his own showed them that he was "mature", "manly", and is someone who can take care of their little girl.

that said, my wedding band was custom made by my uncle's family. i think if you involve her mom in making her wedding band later on after your engagement would be extremely special to your future mother-in-law. you would first impress her family with a beautiful engagement ring, then involving her in making the wedding band would really show that you respect her as a more knowledgeable "elderly".

as for the "lucky" number factor, how far does this extend ? i hope this is only for the CARAT numbers ? the ideal proportions of a round diamond involves a lot of "4"s, in terms of measurements and angles! i hope these won't affect your decision?

as for value, the CUT of the diamond is the most important factor. you are totally correct, a D colored diamond with poor/good cut would look dull, lifeless, and dark in comparison to a G/H colored ideal cut diamond. so, an H color is a great value for an ideal cut diamond. it will still face up icy white. you will only notice the slightest color tint when compared to a D/E colored diamond when placed next to each other. for clarity, the sweet spot is VS1-VS2. i know you are chinese so i would not go into SI level since i'm pretty sure there is some expectation of a diamond being "mind clean". D/E color, IF/VVS1/VVS2 clarity to me is money overspent.

some good combos to look into :

- F / VS2
- G / VS1
- G / VS2
- H / VS1
- H / VS2

here are a few that i've looked up for you :

JAMES ALLEN (they have a NYC office where they can physically pull and show you the following diamonds) :

1.70 G / VS1 $20,090 (my favorite one right now)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1307890.asp

1.67 G / VS1 $18,910
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1304506.asp

1.53 G / VS1 $16,720
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1287687.asp

BRIAN GAVIN hearts and arrows - you can't go wrong with these !

1.507 H / VS2 $15,768
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809014

1.528 F / VS1 $20.805
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809011

 

[Hospatogi]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

My boyfriend was just reading this thread and he completely agrees with Frankie and thinks you shouldnt include your mother in law to be in the process of selecting the ring so I guess im out numbered hehe ! I dont know if I am in the minority but my boyfriend let me help design my engagement ring . He knows it made me happy and I get to have the ring of my dreams its a win win situation for me . Anyway diamondseeker and frankie have exquisite taste in jewelry so I would def take their advice

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

Well I guess it also really depends on the girl's personality? I'm the type of person who is pretty clear on certain things that I want in life and that's the one I want, nothing else. So working with me on the ring is best for me instead of try to surprise me.

I'm also Chinese (didn't read the post careful enough to realize the family is Chinese) and I understand how Asian mother may not be the best to work with. In that case I think it maybe still better to let her know and make sure she is ok with the fact that you are picking out the diamond on your own?

 

[nyc-cs]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

hi ! i am chinese too and i totally understand where you come from culturally ... it's GOOD that you do not involve the mother (even though she is in the diamond industry)... believe me, there are A LOT of consequences / repercussions when you do involve this project with the girl's mom ... especially someone who is a chinese mom, i'm sure you know what i mean ... all chinese mothers (my own mother, and many chinese mothers i know) are pretty possessive of their daughters (albeit in a good way), can be a little over controlling and overbearing in situations like that... of course they all want the BESTEST for their daughters... and something bitter or hurtful can result from this. you might end up getting something that neither you or your girl truly wanted. a good trick to "involve" your future jeweler mother-in-law would be to involve her in the wedding band making process

First I like to start off by thanking you for taking your time to post this, I really appreciate your constructive feedback/advice (as well as others who replied). I have to admit, I know very little about diamonds and don't understand why it is so expensive, so it takes a bit of time for a guy to really understand (and slowly I do) that it's not about what it means to me, or how much I spend, but more of a how much it means to her and the process behind selecting one which to gift. Also I think you more eloquently expressed it that while I respect her mom's professional trade and opinion, that if I ask for her mom's advice then I pretty much have to take it --for Chinese mothers it's often about the mother/family's pride rather than the daughter preference, with that said her mom is a very nice mother and I think her mom would probably reasonable about this.
I think you and Hospatogi's idea to have the mother in-law to be involved with the wedding band is brilliant! This is the kind of advice I'm looking for!
Also, I plan to keep the price and specs of the ring a mystery. For one, it's personal and impolite to reveal the price and details of a gift. As long as the ring is beautiful to her eyes, does it matter that it is a H instead a G which is only noticeable when un-mounted against a white paper background? Although her mom probably can ballpark the specs, by going for a AGS000 stone, it will probably improve all aseptically aspects of the rock other than its carats and all her mom will do is keep on guessing.



Frankie, I like the rings you posted --this is on the higher end of my range but I am starting to gravitate toward this price band now. **edited by moderator. please do not post personal information on the forum for your own safety** I feel you've been understanding of my situation and might be someone who can continute to give me good advice.

 

[slg47]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

hi ! i am chinese too and i totally understand where you come from culturally ... it's GOOD that you do not involve the mother (even though she is in the diamond industry)... believe me, there are A LOT of consequences / repercussions when you do involve this project with the girl's mom ... especially someone who is a chinese mom, i'm sure you know what i mean ... all chinese mothers (my own mother, and many chinese mothers i know) are pretty possessive of their daughters (albeit in a good way), can be a little over controlling and overbearing in situations like that... of course they all want the BESTEST for their daughters... and something bitter or hurtful can result from this. you might end up getting something that neither you or your girl truly wanted. a good trick to "involve" your future jeweler mother-in-law would be to involve her in the wedding band making process

First I like to start off by thanking you for taking your time to post this, I really appreciate your constructive feedback/advice (as well as others who replied). I have to admit, I know very little about diamonds and don't understand why it is so expensive, so it takes a bit of time for a guy to really understand (and slowly I do) that it's not about what it means to me, or how much I spend, but more of a how much it means to her and the process behind selecting one which to gift. Also I think you more eloquently expressed it that while I respect her mom's professional trade and opinion, that if I ask for her mom's advice then I pretty much have to take it --for Chinese mothers it's often about the mother/family's pride rather than the daughter preference, with that said her mom is a very nice mother and I think her mom would probably reasonable about this.
I think you and Hospatogi's idea to have the mother in-law to be involved with the wedding band is brilliant! This is the kind of advice I'm looking for!
Also, I plan to keep the price and specs of the ring a mystery. For one, it's personal and impolite to reveal the price and details of a gift. As long as the ring is beautiful to her eyes, does it matter that it is a H instead a G which is only noticeable when un-mounted against a white paper background? Although her mom probably can ballpark the specs, by going for a AGS000 stone, it will probably improve all aseptically aspects of the rock other than its carats and all her mom will do is keep on guessing.



Frankie, I like the rings you posted --this is on the higher end of my range but I am starting to gravitate toward this price band now. **edited by moderator** I feel you've been understanding of my situation and might be someone who can continute to give me good advice.

honestly I would stick with F/G color since her mom is a jeweler. High color is really important to some people and you don't want her mom to think you cheaped out!

also we are not allowed to post e-mail addresses or other contact info on the forum, but I'm sure Frankie (and others) can continue to give you advice on this thread!

 

[nyc-cs]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

I don't understand why would you not try to work with her mother who knows alot about diamond and can probably get you a great stone with your money. It doesn't have to be a "easy pick" for you, you two can work together to find a diamond for her which maybe a great experience for you two. Also knowing she is a jeweler and you decided to buy a diamond somewhere else, I'm not sure how will it make your gf's mother feel.

Hi minin,

You're definitely right in that logic and I would need to make sure her mom doesn't feel that way. This being a personal gift and between me and my gf, so I would like to completely do it on my own --this would be along the lines of buying a gift from someone to give back to them, though from her mom but the idea is the same.

Yes, I totally understand that. But do you know what shape or setting that you gf likes or wants? My fiance wanted to surprise me, he did lots of study about the diamond and searched many many places, spent countless hours to find the ring. I said yes to him, but I've had one type of ring in my mind since years ago. If he would only make a quick phone call to my best friend (who he knows decent too) he'd know what to pick. Being the mean girl, I told him since I believe relationship should based on honesty and I'm the one who has to wear that ring for the rest of my life. He was completely fine with it and glad I told him the truth, also wished he'd call my friend instead of try to do this all on his own.
I totally understand you want to do this by yourself to show her your love, but I'm just saying sometimes it's not a bad thing to ask for help or advice. It may even be a good thing for both of you. I had fun picking out a ring together with him after he returned the one he got, not every girl likes the ring their other half find, and certainly not every girl have the courage to tell the truth and would rather wait for a upgrade 5 or so years into the marriage, but it is not easy to wear a ring that you don't love everyday that's a symbol of your love and marriage.

Great points --I'm getting the rings from whiteflash. Her and her mom are both in Shanghai now so I couldnt ask for her advice even if she was here. My though is this --I get her something which I like (classic tiffany solitare) with AGA cut round from WF, and I'd like to show it to her mom before my gf to get the mom's opninion. if it turns out they want something else then we return it for a refund. Simple solution.

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

With her finger size being so small, I'm not sure if you should go up to 1.5 ct or etc. I think a D-F and AGSideal000 cut with VS1+ clarity of a 1.01 ct (in Chinese it can also mean yi sheng yi shi 一生一世, entire life? Excuse my translation)

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

what about this one?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1362937.asp
should ask for IS image and hearts image but the HCA came out to be .9 which is excellent.

 

[minmin001]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

or this one
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1317085.asp
I'm no expert in reading the images so I'll let someone knows better to tell you, but HCA is 1.3 which is also excellent.

 

[adrift02]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

If I had $16,000 I would take a closer look at this one

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2632195.htm

 

[frankiextah]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

you're very welcome NYC-CS ! i totally see your point in trying to separate certain things from the future in-laws. some things should be absolutely private between your girl and you. this is completely respectable.

i would suggest you consider not to show the diamond ring to her mom before you propose to your girlfriend. the reason is, in the event that she is not "satisfied" with the diamond (who knows why, and why that should satisfy HER), and "suggests" you to get something else (no matter how nicely and how reasonably), what would you do ?

- follow her advice and end up getting something the mom wants? --> then you're really getting what the mom wants for her child, not what your girlfriend and you want together as a couple.

-fail to follow her advice? what if her advice is impossible for you to meet within your budget, preference, taste level? there is a chance the future MIL may secretly think to herself "can't believe you didn't listen to me, you do not respect me as a mother"... AND this can stick with you for a very very long time... every time she sees the ring... you get my point.

i am sure at this stage of your planning process, your girlfriend should have a hint that you are thinking of a ring, correct ? i would try to discreetly discuss a little more with her ... what are her personal preferences? sacrifice color and clarity for the largest size possible? cream of the crop quality in a smaller diamond? or a balance between the 2 ? at your budget level right now, you have many options and it is easy to go any direction.

I really like the idea of getting the diamond and set it in a simple, classic solitaire band rather than in something elaborate, unless your girlfriend already has a definite design in mind. i do know as a fact that many asian girl friends of mine really love a simple solitaire setting that draws all of the attention to the center diamond... so you really won't go wrong! With this said, can you narrow down your budget ? 10K and 20K are totally different monsters. 10K would get you just about 1ct-1.2ct with a balance of size and quality , a 20K budget would get you as much as about a 1.8ct size with a balance of size and quality. Would you say you want to lean towards 1.5ct+ or between 1.1ct-1.39ct (since 1.4-1.49ct are out of the question)...

one more question - is there a reason why you want to only look at WF diamonds ? James Allen has an office in NYC that an in-house gemologist can pull the diamonds from their website to show you directly. Brian Gavin's hearts and arrows are also second to none top quality. My E-ring diamond is from James Allen and i find that their prices are the best out of all the online vendors. as long as they ship the diamond outside of the state you should not be charged with sales tax.


in addition to the diamonds i found in my last post, here are more options UNDER $15K from WF to look at:

1.222ct G VS1 $12,459.25 (with pricescope discount)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631630.htm

1.222ct F VS1 $14,257.60 (with pricescope discount)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2561965.htm

one more ...

1.517ct G VS2 $18,411 (with pricescope discount)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2632191.htm


Tiffany style solitaire (my fave solitaire on the WF website):
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

Legato sleek solitaire :
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm

p.s. my american husband just walked by and saw this... he said, "god help you son" (re: chinese mother-in-laws) HAHAHA !

feel free to drop me a note : (my PS name) at yahoo

 

[CPF0RY0U]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

Oh boy, I feel you. I have a wife that is Chinese, and I have quite a few Chinese friends.

One of the issues with traditional Chinese moms is that if they "know" about jewelry, they really put a high value on color and clarity.

I had a friend who purchased a very "nice" 1.22 E VS2 GIA Excellent Cut going through the future mother-in-law (now mother-in-law). Needless to say, it was borderline steep/deep, it was not H&A. I went with F color, got a bigger diamond, lowered clarity (but still eye-clean), and got an H&A GIA Triple Excellent (meets AGS Ideal 0 specifications) for less and for my fiance (now wife) and it blew my friend's diamond away.

 

[iugurl]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

With her finger size being so small, I'm not sure if you should go up to 1.5 ct or etc. I think a D-F and AGSideal000 cut with VS1+ clarity of a 1.01 ct (in Chinese it can also mean yi sheng yi shi 一生一世, entire life? Excuse my translation)

Regardless if I had a 3.5 or a 9.5, I would always go with the biggest diamond possible. (well assuming we are talking 3 ct or below and the cut/clarity/color is to my standards). Just because she has small fingers doesn't mean she can't wear 1.5. For PS standards, 1.5 isn't that big. In my world it is, but not here.

 

[Sheherizaad]

Re: Help with diamond selection! Girlfriend's mom is a jewel

While you're in NYC, I *really* think you should go to my jewelers, Bianca's Jewelers on Lexington Ave between 54th and 55th. When you go to the Diamond District you will find a LOT of really bulky and quite honestly, unrefined jewelry (save for maybe three stores max). Allen, my jeweler, did all the work for me by calling in/researching a gargantuan amount of stones (from the Diamond District) and narrowed them down to two or three stones for me to choose from.

His shop ONLY carries VS2 and above and is exceptionally elegant. He has access to everything the Diamond District jewelers do, except he's not pushy because he caters to a smaller clientelle that have higher standards. I really can't sing his praises enough. Lastly, he's exceptionally honest and his prices are on the lower end of what you'd find online, even though it's a 'brick and mortar" shop.