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Help w/ 2.5 ct Round Brilliant

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kbour

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
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4
My wife and I are searching for a 2.5 ct Round H&A Ideal cut diamond and have found two serious candidates as follows:

Seller: GOG NIce
Size: 2.54 2.55
Color: H G
Clarity: VS-1 VS-2
Table: 54.4 55.1
Depth: 60.8 61.3
Crown Angle: 34.3 34.8
Crown Height: 15.3 15.2
Pav Angle: 40.9 40.8
Pav Depth: 42.7 42.9
Culet: .7% N
Girdle: .9 N-M-F
Brilliance: H, VH, VH ???
HCA: 1.3 1.4
Price: $23,500 $25,825

I would appreciate any assistance that the forum members could provide as we try to make the best selection. NIce doesn''t show BScope data on their web site, so I cannot compare the brilliance measurements. Also, their Ideal-Scope normal light pic appears to be identical to the diffused light (error?). Both stones appear to be excellent candidates. Is there something in the specs that justifies almost $2K more for the NIce stone vs. the GOG?

Thanks,

Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324


I would appreciate any assistance that the forum members could provide as we try to make the best selection. NIce doesn't show BScope data on their web site, so I cannot compare the brilliance measurements. Also, their Ideal-Scope normal light pic appears to be identical to the diffused light (error?). Both stones appear to be excellent candidates. Is there something in the specs that justifies almost $2K more for the NIce stone vs. the GOG?

Thanks,

Ken Bour
Sterling, VA


----------------
Hey Ken-First off Todd & Robin (NICEICE) & Jonathan & (GOODOLDGOLD) are 2 top of the line vendors. I have dealt with 1 of them and can say from reading through the site thouroughly the past 6 months they are both in the same class. Nice.ice does not offer a lot of the techy info on the prospective purchase of a stone via their site, but you will read a large majority of the posts that have nothing but good things to say about the both of them.

As far as your 2 stones go You are paying the extra bucks for a stone that size because of the color grade. Nice.ice being (g) & GOG being an H. Put the stones side by side and you will have a difficult time distinguishing the color between the 2. As far as the spec's go GOG has the better clarity grade but both inclusion categories for the vs1 & vs2 clarity grade are defined as being visible under a 10x power scope.

The 5 light views on the Good Old Gold stone are awesome. If you can get the ogi/megascope readings on both stones look at the variances between all the angles being measured if you really want to split hairs. See which stone might be a better contender if it is cut to tighter proportions. All in all to make the only real comparison visually to the extent of (which stone calls to you) You would have to view the stones side by side in person.

Difficult decision between these 2 though tough one...You are going to get varying responses, but all will probably weigh on personal preference since both these stones are characteristically so close in contension with each other.

Hope this helps....

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
Hello Kbour, we hope that you don't mind us posting a reply to a post regarding one of our stones... We just wanted to say that it does appear that we posted the same image for the ideal scope images, we'll fix that in the morning, we simply linked to the same image twice... We were just trying to prove that we're human ;-)
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
Both stones appear to be excellent candidates. Is there something in
the specs that justifies almost $2K more for the NIce stone vs. the
GOG?
-----------

Looks like coin flipping time Ken! Both are awesome stones at incredible prices.

The price differential between the two is correct as well. The G/VS2 is bringing the appropriate premium in per carat price versus the H/VS1. Both stones are apples to apples.

It just depends on which one is whispering your name. Otherwise you've got green lights all the way to town!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Both stones look as though they could be very beautiful. GOG hand picks their stones and Jonathan takes much care in selection, NiceIce is also pretty discriminating in their selections so chances are very good that both of these stones will perform extremely well.

If you put them side by side as Josh suggests, I doubt you could tell a difference between the two. At this poin it may be splitting hairs on the decision. I would select the one that works best for your budget and has the best IdealScope image. The Bscope is nice but without the NI one you can't really use that as a comparison tool..

If it was me choosing...I would go for the H VS1 because of the $2k difference--that's a good chunk of change that could be spent on something else (think Hawaii!). BUT you may feel more comfortable with the G color grade. That is probably mostly the pricing difference you see--the color grade difference. Some people don't feel comfortable with H. My stone is a G and it faces up super white...I can't see a tinge of color in the thing. But I would have bought an H had one come along that appealed.

In the end it may just come down to going with your gut, whatever it is! But I think you have two winners! Good eye.

Maybe Rich can post DiamCalc images to help you along? Or maybe you can post the IdealScope images and people can comment. Good luck!
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
I'd go with the the G-VS2.

I don't mind the inclusions being ever so slightly more visible under the loup -- after all, it will probably make it easier to identify your stone if you ever have the ring worked on -- which I consider a plus.

You cannot tell the difference between VS1 and VS2 with the naked eye, but you might be able to tell the difference between the G and the H. I think it is worth a few more bucks for the whiter stone that you will be able to more readily identify as yours.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Wow! Tthey are both soooooooooo beautiful! If you aren't worried by the extra 2K, then buy the G... If the 2K are an issue, buy the H VS 1 and put the extra money in a nice setting (or in a even nicer holiday, as Mara suggested
)...
 

kbour

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Messages
4
A few responders asked about the Ideal-Scope images for the two stones. Here's the one from GOG, 2.54 CT. I hope these images post OK.

Ken

GOG_Scope.jpg
 

kbour

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Messages
4
Here's the 2nd stone from NiceIce -- 2.55 ct. Thanks, Robin & Todd, for fixing the images on your web site.

I am really a novice at this and would like some help interpreting these images.

Ken

Nice_Scope.jpg
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Wow the stones look very similar! The lighting is different but the have similar hot spots, the minimal light leakage on the corners...etc. I would venture to say (from a very un-expert standpoint) that if you put the two together you would be very hard pressed to notice a difference. It may just come down to the color thing (G vs H) and money thing ($2k difference). To me these look like almost the same stone! BTW both scope images look very nice. Very very nice!
 

diamondbroker

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
4
the g vs2 trades has a much higher price per carat than an h vs1. 1200 per carat more than a an h vs1
 

kbour

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 16, 2003
Messages
4
Just thought I would update this thread...

We purchased the 2.54 ct (H, VS-1) diamond from Jonathan at GoodOldGold. Jonathan was extremely helpful and, at our request, without the slightest hestitation, he sent the diamond directly to Martin Fuller, a well respected local appraiser in northern Virginia.

When the stone arrived the next day and we opened the package, Martin put it under his microscope and gushed, "This stone gives me goose bumps!" We were thrilled to know that the diamond met every expectation we had for it. It's one thing to know the "stats," but quite another to have a set of experienced eyes (over 30 years in the business!) corroborate the hard data. Martin remarked that we had really done our homework and that's the principle reason we ended up with such a beautiful and perfectly cut stone. He also stated that he had appraised many diamonds from Jonathan and they have all been spectacular. Jonathan's reputation has been sustained once again. Martin added that, of the many thousands of diamonds that he has inspected/appraised over the years, this particular stone would place in the top 20! Imagine how proud we were to hear that!

If anyone is considering having a diamond (or any jewelry) appraised, I cannot say enough good things about Martin Fuller. He is personable, friendly, conversational, interesting, and professional -- a real "gem" of a person. I had some anxiety that the appraisal process would be antiseptic and sterile. To the contrary, we had a blast. Martin spent over 3 hours with us, but only charged 1.5 hours for the visit! Not only did he take bunches of pictures (including one of us), but also captured the H&A using his Nikon and a special viewer.

I will mention that, although Martin complimented me on my thorough and productive research, he did assert that the various scopes (Brilliance, Ideal, Firescope, etc.) and Sarin data are NOT what the jewelry professionals use to grade diamonds for brilliance/fire. He is on the GIA committee evaluating brilliance and they use none of these tools. I was a little disheartened to learn that my precious stats were, in his professional view, more about "marketing" than professional grading. On the other hand, I was relieved to know that the diamond we selected not only had great stats/credentials on paper, but also impressed our appraiser for brilliance, cut, and overall beauty.

So, on balance, this forum helped me immensely as did Jonathan's site and the wealth of data/pictures he provides about each stone. That really helped us make an informed decision.

Ken & Pat Bour
Sterling, VA

 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
CONGRATS! I'm very happy to hear that the stone pleases and checks out well.

A note on what Martin said about the GIA not recognizing the Bscope/IdealScope/Fscope etc...the IdealScope and FireScope measure 'light return'....not necessarily brilliance in the true sense of the word. The Bscope does attempt to measure fire, brilliance and scintillation of the stone.

From what I have read/seen/heard, the GIA tends to take its time and not jump on any sort of new technology bandwagon even though some tools may be in the process of becoming more prevalent. IMO the GIA is a little more of a stuffy old-school type organization, the type to research things to death before making a decision to support it...but by then..surprise...there is new technology anyway. Not that I am slapping them on the hand for this, because they are definitely the most highly esteemed organization, they set the standards by which original grading was done, and so therefore cannot necessarily afford to jeopardize their standing by being too quick to act, approve, and/or endorse. Just my opinion, anyway. I am certainly not in the diamond industry...but do pick up tidbits here and there from the board, my course materials, etc.


When we had our diamond appraised....our appraiser is a GIA certified appraisal course professor, she travels all over the world teaching GIA appraisal courses to would-be future appraisers. She spoke well of the Bscope though they are expensive tools, and also she has an IdealScope. The IS is literally how she measures and grades the stone on light return for the official appraisal. That is her only tool. So it would seem that even within the GIA ranks of esteemed professionals, there may be differing opinions. Not a surprise, surely.

 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
Congratulations on your decision! We are sure that the diamond you purchased from Jonathan is gorgeous! He sells an excellent product! The result of a very careful and detailed selection process, he is one of the few competitors who we really enjoy being mentioned in the same sentence with


Martin Fuller is an excellent resource for people located in the Washington D.C. area! We send a lot of diamonds to him for evaluaton and one of the things that really impresses us is his ability to remain impartial... He is a real straight shooter who tells it like it is... If he likes a stone, he says so... And he is not afraid to tell the client and the vendor when he doesn't like a stone...
 
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