Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature diamond

[knonaka]

Hi,

I've been lurking on these forums for a few months now and want to start off by thanking this community. I've learned so much from the resources found on this site and enjoy reading the discussions. Thank you.

I am planning on purchasing this stone.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.225-e-si1-round-diamond-ags-104067957018

I'm pretty excited about this stone but the only thing is of concern is the clarity. I've been in contact with Jamie, and she has assured me this stone is eye clean (8-10 Inches) and also mentioned that the inclusions are light in nature so even at 3-6 inches it would be difficult to pick up.

She has been very helpful and has provided me additional photos which you should find attached.

I understand BDG signature stones come highly regarded and I probably do not have anything to worry about, but I can't get over the fact that when I look at the 10x magnification the inclusion stands out.

I would like to get the communities input on their thoughts.

Also would I be asking for too much (or is it even possible) to have the staff their try to capture the inclusion in a photo?

Thanks in advance!

 

[krisjon]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

but I can't get over the fact that when I look at the 10x magnification the inclusion stands out.

Are you planning on carrying a loupe with you everywhere you wear it?
Will everyone who sees it be doing the same thing?
Answer those two questions and I think you'll have your answer.

It's confirmed eye clean by an expert, but it's not "mind clean" to you. Everyone's different. If that's the big issue, only thing to do is step up in clarity and remove any doubt.

It's a beautiful stone, though.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

You have to be comfortable and happy with the stone. You can return it if it's not suitable for you. Obviously, in these photos you'd be hard pressed to see inclusions but you can see that it is a very pretty stone. Magnified inclusions on a plot are hard to parlay into what the eye can see in normal viewing conditions. Your own eyes have to be the judge in this case - hopefully your fears won't be realized and you'll love the stone. Just don't settle for something you're not happy with!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Yeah, I'm thinking you are having mindclean issues. I think it will be fine on the eyeclean front, but if it's not mindclean... you aren't going to be happy. Also, eyesight varies from person to person.

I don't think you need them to capture more photos for you. It's time to either go for another stone or just have this one shipped to you and see what you think of it in person.

Can you ask them if they can recommend a cleaner stone that is comparable in your budget? And if they don't have one right now, is there any they are expecting soon?

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Are you referring to the inclusions which are visible in the clarity photograph and video provided on the Brian Gavin diamond details page? Because those photographs are taken at a much higher magnification than 10x which is the industry standard for diamond clarity grading. The high resolution video is shot at 30 - 40x, which is why the diamond which has an outside diameter of 6.90 mm appears slightly smaller than a tennis ball on a computer monitor if you click on the option to play the video in the larger format... To put this into perspective, the eraser on a standard #2 pencil measures around 6.5 mm in diameter, so it's a little smaller than the diamond you're looking at, but grab a pencil and hold it up to the computer screen and it will help demonstrate the degree of magnification being used by Brian Gavin and other vendors to provide their customers with clarity photographs and video detailed enough to get an idea of what the inclusions within the diamond look like... I love the technology, but it is kind of confusing to people at the same time

 

[knonaka]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Thank you everyone. I appreciate all the responses.

I agree, I do think this is a bit of a 'mindclean' issue. I'm sure I won't be able to notice anything with my own eyes and will be thrilled when I see it in person! I guess what really drove my concern is my belief in 'you get what you pay for'. With that in mind, there is a 1.228 BGD signature G SI1 priced for a few hundred less (~$500).

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.228-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104064813017

In my mind(mind of a rookie ), the only conclusion I could draw was that the clarity being significant enough to cause the price of the two stones to be comparable. Again, I'm sure I do not have much to worry about, but thought I'd draw on the thoughts of more experienced folks on this forum to provide their thoughts. Then again perhaps I'm just getting a good deal!

 

[krisjon]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

The only way you're really going to decide this is to see the stone with your own eyes and make the call. BG indicates eye clean on both you've listed, but you're the only person who decide if they're also mind clean enough for you.

BG has an excellent, no-hassle return policy. Take advantage of it and get what you want.

Or if you want to start off with less hesitation, don't consider SI1. Move up to VS1 which is pretty much guaranteed eye and mind clean in almost every way.

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Thank you everyone. I appreciate all the responses.

I agree, I do think this is a bit of a 'mindclean' issue. I'm sure I won't be able to notice anything with my own eyes and will be thrilled when I see it in person! I guess what really drove my concern is my belief in 'you get what you pay for'. With that in mind, there is a 1.228 BGD signature G SI1 priced for a few hundred less (~$500).

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.228-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104064813017

In my mind(mind of a rookie ), the only conclusion I could draw was that the clarity being significant enough to cause the price of the two stones to be comparable. Again, I'm sure I do not have much to worry about, but thought I'd draw on the thoughts of more experienced folks on this forum to provide their thoughts. Then again perhaps I'm just getting a good deal!

So you're looking at two diamonds which are comparable in diamond cut quality, but there is quite a difference between E-color and G-color in terms of brightness. The two diamonds should face up pretty much the same in terms of the overall volume of light return and sparkle, and both are SI-1 in clarity, so the primary difference is the body color.

Since whether the diamonds are "eye clean" or not is clearly an issue, why not select one of the 1.22 carat, G-color, VS-2 clarity, Brian Gavin Signature diamonds that I see in their inventory? It seems like a good middle ground... they are relatively the same price as the E-color, SI-1 that you referenced initially.

 

[knonaka]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

I agree the return policy is excellent but the catch for me is that I was told I would need to pay for the return shipping/insurance. I did a quick check online with fedex. Shipping from my location, insuring $11k item comes out to over $100 (that's ~1% of my cost). I would prefer to be able to make my decision and avoid any back and forth.

The reason for preference in better color is when we looked at diamonds at our local jewelers she seemed to be more color sensitive and preferred a 'whiter' look. This ultimately led to the compromise of clarity.

Todd - so would you agree in my conclusion, that the two stones are comparable in price due to the clarity of the SI1 being 'worse' than the other? From my understanding there is a range in each clarity rating. Would it be safe to say that the E colored stone is more in the lower end of the SI1 spectrum? I know are a lot of moving parts when vendors determine price, but that's the only conclusion I could draw.

I also want to reemphasize I am extremely excited about this stone and I know that I am being very critical and my intention is not in any way to offend or undermine the experts who graded the diamond.

Thanks in advance!

 

[krisjon]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Just a hint, but if it comes down to it, save yourself some serious $ shipping and use USPS Registered Mail with insurance. I just sent something of similar value and it took 2-3 days by Priority and was around $40.

You can insure up to $25k and it's tracked every time it changes hands throughout the delivery. Super safe and reliable.

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Todd - so would you agree in my conclusion, that the two stones are comparable in price due to the clarity of the SI1 being 'worse' than the other? From my understanding there is a range in each clarity rating. Would it be safe to say that the E colored stone is more in the lower end of the SI1 spectrum? I know are a lot of moving parts when vendors determine price, but that's the only conclusion I could draw.

Okay as a trade member, I'm a bit limited as to what I can say about the diamonds, but I think that I can say this (and apologize in advance if I'm mistaken) but I view the extent of the clarity characteristics within these two SI-1 clarity diamonds to be relatively equal and thus they are in the same range of SI-1 in my opinion. I'm guessing that the difference in price is due to the difference in price between G-color, SI-1 and E-color, SI-1 in conjunction with market conditions which were present at the time each diamond was produced, the difference in price is supported by current pricing guides relied on by the diamond industry. Both diamonds represent the same value... Does that make sense?

 

[ame]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

While both are beautiful, neither would meet *my* clarity standards. Neither is eye clean in a manner that would satisfy ME. I am a freak of nature though, and I have issues with mind-cleanliness besides my freak vision.

Since you appear to only have gauged your intended's color standards, not clarity standards, you could do fine with either, but I would go with an F or G color, and go up in clarity. Even so, she's not going to have another diamond of this cut quality to hold beside her engagement diamond to have a comparison in color when you propose, so what she saw in the store you took her to may not "register" when she sees this one in front of her--and was that stone of equal cut quality? She might have a mind-clean issue with color just from what marketing tells her she should believe she should want, but when she sees how bright an F or G faces up in front of her, she might not care, but she won't have that other stone for reference either.

This might be worth a consideration. This G has blue fluorescence. Some of the perceived warmth will in a way be offset by the fluorescence within the stone. That way you can save some money on the color, get a great stone, a higher clarity stone, and stay in the same size range you were in AND it's a little cheaper. Just a thought.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.183-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067973050

another option...
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.220-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104067957019#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/4/

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Mind Clean is a real issue for many people. I see no point buying a diamond that is not mind clean to you unless you can comfortably offset it with other factors (i.e. accept for the price). I have a "clarity" mind clean issue which is why almost all my bigger diamonds are VS1 and above. I don't have good eye sight so I usually don't see inclusions and this is definitely mind clean for me.

If mind clean is driven by what other people think (I know we shouldn't think this way but many do) ... people never ask about clarity. If they ask, they ask ct weight and on occasion color. However, if you have a big black carbon or long feather .... that's a different story.

 

[knonaka]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Thank you everyone! I appreciate all the input.

I think I'll just need to see the stone in person and make my final decision.

Kris-thanks for the tip!

Todd - A little cryptic.... but I think I understand. Basically I can't conclude that is the case, but I can be rest assured the price is a fair based on market conditions at that time.

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Thank you everyone! I appreciate all the input.

I think I'll just need to see the stone in person and make my final decision.

Kris-thanks for the tip!

Todd - A little cryptic.... but I think I understand. Basically I can't conclude that is the case, but I can be rest assured the price is a fair based on market conditions at that time.

Not trying to be cryptic, just trying to answer your question without violating the forum rules that apply to trade members pertaining to providing advice, and/or critiquing the merchandise of other trade members, it's a tightrope of sorts...

What I'm trying to say is that the difference in price is not due to differences in the level of the SI-1 clarity grade / range for the SI-1 clarity grade, but rather is due to a difference in the price per carat of G-color, SI-1 and E-color, SI-1 based upon common market guides and market conditions which affect the price of diamond rough in those qualities... So the difference in price is not because one diamond is a better SI-1 than the other, but rather because one is an E-color and the other is a G-color.

 

[knonaka]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

Not trying to be cryptic, just trying to answer your question without violating the forum rules that apply to trade members pertaining to providing advice, and/or critiquing the merchandise of other trade members, it's a tightrope of sorts...

What I'm trying to say is that the difference in price is not due to differences in the level of the SI-1 clarity grade / range for the SI-1 clarity grade, but rather is due to a difference in the price per carat of G-color, SI-1 and E-color, SI-1 based upon common market guides and market conditions which affect the price of diamond rough in those qualities... So the difference in price is not because one diamond is a better SI-1 than the other, but rather because one is an E-color and the other is a G-color.

I understand, appreciate trying to walk the rope!

That makes sense, I guess I was expecting more of a price jump from shifting of two color grades and thought there might have been more weight in clarity for price.

Here is why I thought so.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.535-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104066186015
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.563-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067973009

If you look at those two, roughly same ct wt, color and both BGD blue. The difference would be the clarity grade (SI1, VS2), and the price difference is over $3k.

This is why I thought perhaps that the price was impacted by the SI1 quality in the E diamond.

But you're right, what I failed to recognize are the market factors that might influence (e.g demand for high clarity diamonds at 1.5ct differ from 1.25ct) price is probably a bigger factor.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Help - Thoughts on the Clarity of this BGD signature dia

That price difference I can't explain as easily, there is still a difference in the price per carat (PPC) between F, SI-1 and F, VS-2 in the 1.50 weight category, but it's not that big of a jump... but who knows what the market conditions were at the time the rough was purchased for the second stone. What I can tell you though is that the PPC difference between the two diamonds you are looking at above does account for the difference in price... What can I say, diamond prices are