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xnavigator

Rough_Rock
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Hi,
i''m a total newbie in this diamond-selection process. Have been learning alot from the many of the gurus in this forum.
I''m trying to select a diamond for an engagement ring.


I''ve done some homework reading up on the forum and shortlisted a couple of diamonds.

What do you guys think of this?

Its an SI2, but I checked with them (JA) and they said its eye-clean.
It scores pretty well on the HCA. I''ve also attached the Idealscope image.
Its going for $2800. Do you guys think this is good?

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.81
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: SI2
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.4%
Table: 54.9%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.94*5.97*3.72

Crown Angle: 34.4°
Crown %: 15.50
pavilion Angle: 40.9°
pavilion %: 43.10


The other one I''m looking at is this. Slightly smaller @0.79carat, VS1 and about $3100.
Slightly poorer performer on the HCA.

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 61.4%
Table: 56.1%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.98*5.99*3.67

Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown %: 15.10
pavilion Angle: 41.0°
pavilion %: 43.30


Which would you guys recommend? 3100 is about the max of my budget.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!


1218701.jpg
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Welcome!

First the HCA isn't used to select diamonds but to eliminate them the aim is to score below 2 then evaluate from there. The first diamond looks nice, it reaches my cut off for depth, do you have the Idealscope image for the second diamond please? Also I like hearts images for any h&a diamonds in order to judge overall cut precision, however James Allen do not provide these to the best of my knowledge. So if you could post the Idealscope for the other diamond also, then we can go from there.
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Opps...I forgot to attach for the 2nd one.

I''m abit torn between these 2.

Or do you think that I shouldnt even consider these and just continue to wait for better ones???

1225080.jpg
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/14/2009 11:13:14 AM
Author: xnavigator
Opps...I forgot to attach for the 2nd one.

I'm abit torn between these 2.

Or do you think that I shouldnt even consider these and just continue to wait for better ones???
Thanks! These are both good Idealscope images and you could consider either diamond. You would not notice any visual difference between the two diamonds very likely looking at the images, both of which are around the size of an eraser which sits on top of a pencil! It depends what you want, these are both excellently cut diamonds but without hearts images it is difficult to judge the patterning and precision.

What is the grade setting inclusion for the SI2 diamond please? What does it say on the grading report for the inclusions, cloud, feather, crystal etc?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/14/2009 11:22:01 AM
Author: xnavigator
How do you judge from the Idealscope images? hehe...I'm trying to learn...:razz:
I will post a link for you which will help!

https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Basically I am looking for light leakage with Idealscope, this shows as pale whitish areas or darker on the image. You may notice an even white triangular patterning on some images around the edges, this is actually intentional leakage and can aid the visual properties of a diamond as in image 1 - so not a problem. The image can also help show the optical symmetry of the diamond, also if you look at the arrows you can see how well formed and precise they are. It is easy to ' over read' these images and split hairs, so keep it simple. Leakage is the enemy and will show readily if it is an issue. Sometimes you can get lighter patches which are extremely slight as on the second image above at 10 o'clock, however it is doubtful that if this is leakage that it will be visible to the naked eye.

Here is a reference chart for IS where you can compare images.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart.asp
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
THANK YOU!!!

u mentioned about about ur "cut-off" for depth. How do you judge that??
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/14/2009 11:29:17 AM
Author: xnavigator
THANK YOU!!!

u mentioned about about ur 'cut-off' for depth. How do you judge that??
62.4% is my personal cut off for depth in a well cut round, as then you can start losing face up size and the diamond can look small for its weight if you go much deeper. I look for a depth in a round diamond of between 60% and 62.4% as my personal preference.

I can accept extra depth in a type of diamond known as a fiery ideal cut ( FIC). These diamonds have proportions which can enable a greater show of fire to be seen if the lighting is right, typically these have a steep crown angle, small table and sometimes greater depth. These can sometimes look a little smaller for the weight but this is sometimes a trade off if you want that type of diamond.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Lorelei's cut off for the depth is 62.4% for what she consider ideal cuts. Larger depth will usually results in smaller face-up dimensions for a given weight.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/14/2009 11:47:34 AM
Author: xnavigator
oh! i see. Thats a great rule of thumb!
Thank you! :)

My search continues.....
I am very glad to help! Let me know if you need any more assistance
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
My search has made me ALOT more confused!!

previously my search was restricted to H&A diamonds to JamesAllen...

then..I realised that the Ideal diamonds might not be that bad too!

Then I also found out about WhiteFlash...and GOG!!

Now i totally lost on where to start


Can anyone help shortlist a couple of diamonds for me please??

My budget is around 2.5k...I suppose i can stretch it to 3k if its REALLY nice and worthwhile


From what I read, cut is the most impt. I''ll want to get something at least 0.7carat for her....

SO...cut > carat > colour > clarity! with a budget of 2.5 - 3k...suggestions anyone??
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
JA is having a 5% sale on its H&A diamonds till end of the month!

THat increases my budget by 5%!! hehehe
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
42,064
Check this one out, I think the IS image may be tilted, but it looks like a good diamond, as with all SI clarity grades you will need to check if they are eyeclean to your standards.

Some more selections below. With the WF diamonds the prices may be lower than the ones listed as you can get a discount for mentioning Pricescope and if you pay by bank wire.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1213133.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218702.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1204040.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097578.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1445176.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097571.htm#

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4705/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2268/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5758/

As you can see there are lots of diamonds out there which might suit you!
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
Hi Lore, thank you for your response!

I''ve asked JA about some of the rocks before...I''ll update again when I get home. Up i remember the JA 0.87carat is not eye-clean. sigh...

How do I go about choosing Ideal rocks from WF that are non-ACA?
don''t really want to pay a premium for the branding..


WHat do you think of this rock? It has a GIANT inclusion that looks REALLY REALLY SCARY. but its supposed to be a white inclusion as described by the vendor (GOG) thats not as bad as it seems....:razz: It could largely be covered up by a prong too i think.

Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 0.90ct
Color: H
Clarity: I1
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Superior
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Fluorescence: None
Culet: None
Lab Report: AGS
Lab Report #: 9734901
In House: Yes
Width: 6.18mm
Length: 6.23mm
Depth: 3.82mm
Table Percentage: 56.96%
Depth Percentage: 61.47%
Crown ∠: 34.55°
Crown Depth: 14.70%
Pavilion ∠: 40.85°
Pavilion Depth: 42.20%
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
Opps...i forgot to post this actual pic of the rock that GOG sent me.

What do you all think??

I''m quite tempted.....it falls within my budget. But the inclusion looks really scary...

IMG_8625.JPG
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
this is the arrows image of the same rock..which will scare ur socks off! haha.
good symmetry though right??

arro1.JPG
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
42,064
I would absolutely trust Jon from GOG's eye on an I1, if he says it is eyeclean and you make him aware of your expectations, then you can definitely consider it. You can also consider non branded diamonds, the trick is to evaluate each carefully on the proportions and images to find the best ones.

The diamond pic looks good!
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
Oh, its not Jon who recommended the stone to me. It was Sarah from GOG.

And its not eye-clean :razz:

She was strongly recommending it because she said the performance was amazing for the price.
U think the inclusion will be quite "obvious"?
I tried to walk away from the screen until it''s stone is about arm''s length..and it doesnt seem too obvious


I''m trying to go thru WF''s non ACA diamonds...but its kinda hard to shortlist...haha
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/19/2009 8:35:25 AM
Author: xnavigator
Oh, its not Jon who recommended the stone to me. It was Sarah from GOG.

And its not eye-clean :razz:

She was strongly recommending it because she said the performance was amazing for the price.
U think the inclusion will be quite ''obvious''?
I tried to walk away from the screen until it''s stone is about arm''s length..and it doesnt seem too obvious


I''m trying to go thru WF''s non ACA diamonds...but its kinda hard to shortlist...haha
Ok, this might give you an idea of the actual size of the diamond ( stolen from Ellen
)

<---------

So it is hard to tell if the inclusion would be obvious - at a guess not to a casual observer but you might be able to find it easily in some lights if you know where to look.
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
oh! thats how it would look like?!??! COOL!!


There should be some online program that simulates the size and brightness of these diamonds..hehehe


I guess MOST people wont be looking too closely at the ring and trying to find fault with it right???


I''ll continue with my search since GOG aint open till tuesday anyways...


This is such a FUN headache..
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/19/2009 8:52:27 AM
Author: xnavigator
oh! thats how it would look like?!??! COOL!!


There should be some online program that simulates the size and brightness of these diamonds..hehehe


I guess MOST people wont be looking too closely at the ring and trying to find fault with it right???


I'll continue with my search since GOG aint open till tuesday anyways...


This is such a FUN headache..
Tis fun once you get into it! The image I linked gives a rough idea of how small these rocks actually are! Jon does have a good return policy so if you wanted to take a look in person you could do - also he might be able to do a comparison video for you.
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
Comparison video??
how does that work?

Do you think I should get another opinion(Jon''s) at GOG for the diamond other than Sarah''s? Its probably better right? Not that I doubt any of their abilities.....but its probably better to get more than 1 pair of eyes on that thing :)

Thank you for all the help so far Lorelei!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
42,064
Date: 4/19/2009 1:50:22 PM
Author: xnavigator
Comparison video??
how does that work?

Do you think I should get another opinion(Jon's) at GOG for the diamond other than Sarah's? Its probably better right? Not that I doubt any of their abilities.....but its probably better to get more than 1 pair of eyes on that thing :)

Thank you for all the help so far Lorelei!
You are most welcome!

I would definitely get Jon to give you his opinion on the diamond and the inclusion also - more than 1 pair of eyes can be a very good thing. You can also ask him if he can do a video for you so that you can see the diamond ' in action.' He is a great guy and very nice to deal with so pick his brains and see what he thinks!
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
25
Does a better cut make a diamond look "whiter"?

I''m considering going down to an I colour grade. I read that it is near colourless.....would a better cut make it look "more" colourless? (if that makes sense
)

How do you all think these 2 would be? I''m still waiting for Whiteflash to reply me.
Oh, is there any particular person on Whiteflash that I should ask to take a look??

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097579.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=2097576

Thanks everyone!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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42,064
Date: 4/20/2009 10:44:06 AM
Author: xnavigator
Does a better cut make a diamond look 'whiter'?

I'm considering going down to an I colour grade. I read that it is near colourless.....would a better cut make it look 'more' colourless? (if that makes sense
)

How do you all think these 2 would be? I'm still waiting for Whiteflash to reply me.
Oh, is there any particular person on Whiteflash that I should ask to take a look??

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097579.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=2097576

Thanks everyone!
A better cut can certainly show any colour grade off to its best advantage and also it is said help a lower colour face up whiter. What I would do is ask for Bob at WF to take a look at the I colours and discuss how they look with you for colour and personality.
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
3,156
Date: 4/20/2009 10:46:38 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/20/2009 10:44:06 AM
Author: xnavigator
Does a better cut make a diamond look ''whiter''?

I''m considering going down to an I colour grade. I read that it is near colourless.....would a better cut make it look ''more'' colourless? (if that makes sense
)

How do you all think these 2 would be? I''m still waiting for Whiteflash to reply me.
Oh, is there any particular person on Whiteflash that I should ask to take a look??

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2097579.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=2097576

Thanks everyone!
A better cut can certainly show any colour grade off to its best advantage and also it is said help a lower colour face up whiter. What I would do is ask for Bob at WF to take a look at the I colours and discuss how they look with you for colour and personality. They both look good.
Like Loreleli said, a good cut can help it look whiter face up. But an I is still an I and depending on the lighting conditions, "may" show some tint.
 

xnavigator

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
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Thanks elle and lorelei!

Do you have any comments for the 2 diamonds i just link? Do their scans look alright to you?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/20/2009 10:57:59 AM
Author: xnavigator
Thanks elle and lorelei!

Do you have any comments for the 2 diamonds i just link? Do their scans look alright to you?
Elle and I are glad to help!

The images look good for both, no worries there - just check they are eyeclean to your standards by asking WF.
 
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