HELP! Should we buy this sapphire for my e-ring?

[Haven]

Okay, BF has been searching for MONTHS (since November) for an untreated yellow sapphire to use as the center stone for my e-ring. We''re looking for a cushion cut stone that is around 9 X 9 mm, and not too deep.

Well, it turns out that it is nearly impossible to find a quality untreated stone this size that has a depth less than 6 mm, apparently because the stone needs to be that deep so it maintains a good color. Of course, if the stone is too deep that will make the e-ring ridiculously high, and I certainly do not want a Ring Pop effect for my e-ring.

SO, our jeweler just showed us two beautiful heat treated yellow sapphires. He offered to continue searching for a good untreated sapphire, but he hasn''t come across anything untreated yet that meets his and our standards in terms of size, symmetry, color, etc.

One of the treated stones he showed us is:
- About 9.7 X 9.7 mm
- Gorgeous
- Symmetrical
- Perfect color (for me, at least)
- 4.7 carats
- Cost: $4,000 (haven''t asked about haggling on price yet, so it will probably end up a bit less if we buy)
- NOT beryllium treated, just the heat treatment they use to take out the silk inclusions

The only problem with this stone is that it has a window when you look at it from the top. Our jeweler said they can re-cut it to bring the window in, and we agreed that if the cutter brings it down to anything between 8.5 to 9ish mm squared, it would be perfect to use in the ring.

I love the stone, BF has slowly warmed to the idea of using a heat treated sapphire for the ring. Money is not a concern, we just really want to get the best looking sapphire that we can find. I LOVE sapphires, which is why we''re not looking at canary diamonds.

This jeweler is excellent, we trust him, they do incredible work, etc.

THE QUESTIONS: Should we buy this stone? Is there anything we should be asking about this stone? Does this sound like a good deal? OR, should we keep looking for something without a window on it? Any and all suggestions are invited.

Here''s a link to NSC''s website with a stone (ID Y64) with a similar window as the sapphire in question:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=Y64

Thanks for your help!

 

[neatfreak]

Maybe I am missing something, but I don''t see a window in the NSC stone?

But personally, I would not buy a sapphire with a big window especially for an ering and especially if it was visible from the top.

 

[Haven]

Neatfreak--Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but I was under the impression that "window" describes the effect when there is no light return up through the flat part of the table when viewed through the top of the stone. The sapphire we're thinking about purchasing has a small window, which is comparable to the size of the very center of the NSC stone where the color is even and you don't see any light return through the very center part. Perhaps this stone is a poor illustration of what I'm talking about.

If you follow the link to this stone, you'll see that the edges have a great faceted look, while the center is even-colored, and there isn't any light return. This is what I'm talking about:

Windowed Sapphire

Am I using the wrong verbage here? This is completely likely.

Anyway, the stone will be re-cut to eliminate the small window, or whatever it is I'm trying to describe. SO, knowing this--what do you think?

 

[twodoor2]

Usually no light return can mean either extinction (when a stone is cut too deep) or a window (when a stone is cut too shallow). You can tell if a stone has a window if you can read newspaper print, or some other print while looking through the table of the stone. The stone you sent the link to has a huge window. I don't see the picture of your stone though (I assume the NSC stone for the window example is not your stone). Can you try to attach a picture so we can see?

Unfortunately, and this drives me crazy with sapphires and rubies, but they're mostly cut in Southeast Asia. The native cuts on the stones in Southeast Asia are horrible, and no one seems to set any standards or care!! I could understand it if it were a cheap stone like amethyst or citrine, but those stones, which are cut mostly in Brazil, are much better cut than the sapphires and rubies that tend to be a lot more pricey.

 

[Haven]

Thank you for your response, Twodoor. It is definitely a window in the stone, unfortunately I didn''t take any pictures of the stone we saw at the jeweler''s today so I can''t share. I''ll see if I can get in there tomorrow to take another look.

Since I posted this topic I''ve been searching through PS for more info about windows and yellow sapphires, and I''m starting to feel a seeping sense of dread here.

I''m getting a bit distraught at this point in the process. We have been searching for a good yellow sapphire for so long, over eight months, and we haven''t found one yet. I''m beginning to think I won''t be able to get the e-ring I''ve been dreaming of, after all.

Can anyone help us find a quality yellow sapphire, cushion cut, around 9 X 9 mm, not too deep so it can be set as in an ering?

We''ve been in contact with Natural Sapphire Company, Palagems, Cherrypicked, and our very own jeweler here at home. I just sent an email to Richard Homer, I''m not sure how I''d feel about a concave faceted stone but I think it''s worth checking it out--it''s difficult to tell how the stone will look from web pictures.

The problem seems to be that all the stones we find are either way to deep to set in a ring, or they are shallow enough to set but they have a window. I can''t believe it is this difficult to find a sapphire--we''ve even opened up to purchasing a heat treated stone, as long as it isn''t beryllium treated, and we are willing to spend some serious money here.

I feel like crying, have other sapphire owners had this much trouble finding their stones?

 

[twodoor2]

I assume that you have your mounting, or at least one picked out, because you're specific about the dimensions of the stone. You mention you want 9 x 9 cushion, but not how deep a stone will the mounting allow? Can you tell us how deep? Also, since you cannot attach a picture of the color you want, is there a link to a yellow sapphire with your desired color? There are many vendors that check out this forum, and many of us like to go on hunts for the elusive stones. Yellow sapphires are not as highly demanded as say, blue, pink or padparadscha. That's probably why vendors don't carry a great deal of them in stock. The fact that they don't know how to cut stones in Southeast Asia doesn't help that much either. Actually, I shouldn't say that they don't know how to cut stones, but they have people cutting as many stones as possible in the shortest timeframe, and they also cut stones to save weight. Cutting for beauty is a waste of their money and time. Also consider that since sapphire is the second hardest substance on earth, it might cost more to recut it than say, if you had to recut an emerald. That's something you need to talk to a lapidary about.

 

[Haven]

Our jeweler will be making a custom ring around the stone, if we ever find it. The 9 X 9 mm is just an approximate size that we''re looking for. The setting is going to be in platinum with a halo around the stone, and then pave diamonds along the prongs and the band.

As for the depth, I''m not really sure about depth requirements, I only know that the stones we have found thus far have all been too deep at around 7 mm. I''ll ask our jeweler tomorrow for some depth guidelines, any suggestions here?

I know what you''re saying about cutting stones to preserve the weight--I imagine that''s why we have seen so many stones that are shaped quite oddly or asymmetrically, especially at the bottom.

Color--hmm, I''m actually pretty flexible here. I do not want any orange at all, but I''d be happy with anything from a light lemony yellow to an intense yellow color as long as it does not look orange.

Thanks for all of your help, Twodoor. I''m beginning to wonder if I should start looking at yellow diamonds, although I would truly prefer a sapphire. This entire search is now making me so very sad.

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi Haven, I am no expert but would like to share some info I learnt from my jeweler. Apparently when it comes to coloured stones, you can''t really choose size AND shape AND colour AND cut. If you see a beautiful colour and a great cut, it may not be in a shape or size that you want. Or you may find a stone in a shape that you want and maybe of a good cut, but it may not be in the colour tone that you would like etc etc.

So normally when it comes to coloured stones, if you find one that speaks to you and looks great to you, that''s most important (of course, price and type of treatments are important too). If I had to choose, I will choose colour (rich and in a shade I like) and cut (no window, minimal extinction) over size and shape, that''s just my opinion..

 

[Siamese Kitty]

I thought this one was beautiful from NSC: http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=Y2097
Symmetry is a little off on the corners, but if it''s a custom job that shouldn''t matter too much. It''s not too deep, close to your size and price...
Good luck with the search-it will all be worth it in the end!

 

[chrono]

Date: 7/23/2007 12:24:30 AM
Author: Haven

We''ve been in contact with Natural Sapphire Company, Palagems, Cherrypicked, and our very own jeweler here at home. I just sent an email to Richard Homer, I''m not sure how I''d feel about a concave faceted stone but I think it''s worth checking it out--it''s difficult to tell how the stone will look from web pictures.

Richard Homer will also cut traditional faceted stones. He is excellent at that too and picks the best rough. I highly recommend that route for your engagement stone.

 

[strmrdr]

9x9 sapphire with much less than a 6mm depth is likely going to have a large window.
6mm is a 66% depth.

 

[twodoor2]

Date: 7/23/2007 12:46:48 AM
Author: Haven
Our jeweler will be making a custom ring around the stone, if we ever find it. The 9 X 9 mm is just an approximate size that we''re looking for. The setting is going to be in platinum with a halo around the stone, and then pave diamonds along the prongs and the band.

As for the depth, I''m not really sure about depth requirements, I only know that the stones we have found thus far have all been too deep at around 7 mm. I''ll ask our jeweler tomorrow for some depth guidelines, any suggestions here?

I know what you''re saying about cutting stones to preserve the weight--I imagine that''s why we have seen so many stones that are shaped quite oddly or asymmetrically, especially at the bottom.

Color--hmm, I''m actually pretty flexible here. I do not want any orange at all, but I''d be happy with anything from a light lemony yellow to an intense yellow color as long as it does not look orange.

Thanks for all of your help, Twodoor. I''m beginning to wonder if I should start looking at yellow diamonds, although I would truly prefer a sapphire. This entire search is now making me so very sad.

If you get a light lemony yellow stone, it''s far less expensive than an intense vivid yellow. Now you''re talking maybe $100/ct (even untreated), not a $1000/ct. Be careful what you pay since the price range on yellow sapphires is large. A light lemon yellow sapphire could take advantage of a yellow gold setting to deepen the color as well. However, if it were me, I would go for a more vivid yellow. To me, color is the single most important aspect about any colored gemstone purchase.

If you''re starting to consider yellow diamonds, then the price range alters signficantly. There''s no way you could get a 9 x 9 untreated fancy yellow diamond for $4,000 (if you could, we all would want to know!!). A yellow diamond, especially an untreated fancy vivid natural yellow with good saturation, will run a lot more money, but there are more size options. There are irradiated yellow diamonds as well, they are treated to get that color and are much less money than a natural yellow. There is a huge selection of yellow diamonds at icestore.com with all the specs and prices so you could gage your options. "Diamonds By Lauren" is another vendor that specializes in fancy yellow diamonds. She might have some sapphires as well. I hear good things about both vendors, although I have never purchased anything from them myself.

Good luck!!

 

[Haven]

Thanks again for all of your feedback. I''m so happy I have Pricescope, I would be at a serious loss without all of you when it comes to buying jewelry!

It took me several months to post about the sapphire search on PS, and I''m pretty sure it was because I knew you would confirm my fears--our search really wasn''t very realistic.

SO, now that we''ve faced the music BF and I have switched gears and decided to go with a cushion cut diamond. I''m a brand new diamond customer, so I''ve contacted a few people for help and we''ll see what we find. We''re hoping to end up with something in the 1.5 to 2.5 ct range, but that''s about all we''ve figured out thus far.

Don''t worry--I''ll post pics as soon as the ring gets on my finger (in whatever incarnation it ends up taking!)

THANKS AGAIN!

 

[twodoor2]

I like icestore because most of his yellow diamonds have GIA certs that indicate the cut, polish and proportion statistics. Just click on the yellow diamond you're interested in and pops up all the stats on it from the GIA cert. No guessing to figure out if the proportions are good, or the color is good. The price is listed as well. That store is good for a beginning research tool into pricing these stones. Good luck!! Also, as far as diamonds are concerned, if you're getting a princess cut diamond, one with lots of facets, I would go with an SI stone. No one would be able to tell between an IF stone and an SI-2 with the naked eye, especially in a fancy colored diamond, unless you looked at it super up close, or had a loupe. With these stones, color is more important than clarity. Going with an SI stone could save you quite a bit of $$$. If you're getting a more step cut stone (like an emerald cut), or an ascher cut, then clarity is more important. I would go with a VS stone then.

 

[Haven]

Thank you, Twodoor! Your advice is so very appreciated. I'm off to browse icestore now! I actually went to the local mall today just to try on some different sized diamonds so I could get an idea of what I really want, and the quality! Or should I say the LACK of quality? One store had a 3 ct M I2 RB priced at $42,000. The stone was so heavily included it looked fake!

Oh, and at another store the woman showed me five J colored stones in a row, so I said something like "Wow, you really have a lot of J stones here." (I said this because I recently spent a ton of time looking at our J stone thread here and I'm intrigued.) Her response: "Well yes, J is very good. I is a bit better and VS is the very best."

I sort of stood there and blinked for a few seconds and then I asked her to repeat herself, as I was sure I had heard her wrong.

Nope.

This saleswoman literally thought that "J" was a clarity rating, and that VS was the highest possible clarity rating.

Needless to say, I purchased a stone from her on the spot.

Ugh.

 

[twodoor2]

That''s a sad & funny story all at the same time!! Good luck on your search, keep us posted.