HELP!! Should I go with Quality over size??

[kmoro]

I totally get not wanting to sell your diamond yourself. But whiteflash has s 1.50 ACA I VS1 for a little over 12k. Comes with the best trade up policy ever. Should you decide you want to. So by that math, and given your 10k budget, your diamond’s value is 2k. I would totally keep my diamond at that point. and stretch my budget by 2k. And have the reassurance that I can upgrade at any time and not find myself in this situation again.
FWIW, my upgrade was from a 2.20 to a 2.52. And when I comped with wf, I would have lost over 10k. And at my size range, every upgrade would have cost me another 7 or 8k. That’s how I knew when to stop lol and to go with my jeweler. Bc I wasn’t going to be using their upgrade policy.

nala,
I get your point, but the math on the $2000 doesn’t work for two reasons - you’re assuming the new diamond will cost the full $10k to upgrade, and, although more minor, the new diamond is vvs1 not vs1. Edit: oh I should add that if your math was right, I would totally agree. In fact, I think the OP might benefit from considering a vs1 ACA and do just that. Edit again: but then OP would be stuck with keeping or selling a not very pretty diamond.

How does working with your jeweler save money on upgrade? I’m not being sarcastic in any way .. I’m not sure if I understood your last paragraph ... did you sell your diamond yourself and then upgrade?

 

[lovedogs]

I totally get not wanting to sell your diamond yourself. But whiteflash has s 1.50 ACA I VS1 for a little over 12k. Comes with the best trade up policy ever. Should you decide you want to. So by that math, and given your 10k budget, your diamond’s value is 2k. I would totally keep my diamond at that point. and stretch my budget by 2k. And have the reassurance that I can upgrade at any time and not find myself in this situation again.
FWIW, my upgrade was from a 2.20 to a 2.52. And when I comped with wf, I would have lost over 10k. And at my size range, every upgrade would have cost me another 7 or 8k. That’s how I knew when to stop lol and to go with my jeweler. Bc I wasn’t going to be using their upgrade policy.

This. For 10k I would get an amazing stone that will blow you away AND come with an amazing upgrade option if you want it in the future.

 

[nala]

nala,
I get your point, but the math on the $2000 doesn’t work for two reasons - you’re assuming the new diamond will cost the full $10k to upgrade, and, although more minor, the new diamond is vvs1 not vs1.

How does working with your jeweler save money on upgrade? I’m not being sarcastic in any way .. I’m not sure if I understood your last paragraph ... did you sell your diamond yourself and then upgrade?

No. My math only works if her seller maxes out her budget and since she hasn’t provided that number, I went with her max bc that is what she is willing to pay. And she didn’t post options of bigger diamonds, etc. within that range.
I’m not recommending my jeweler. Im saying that even tho i think my jeweler took me to the cleaners, I still paid a lot less in wf comps for the commodity of trading up my diamond and not having to sell it. I paid 5k and not 10k.

 

[msop04]

So just to clarify. You are trading in a 1.32 and paying 10k to upgrade in size and cut by .20?
I did the exact same thing last year and paid 5k and I realized that I was paying a penalty fee for Trade up.
I think you are better off selling it and starting fresh or recutting it. That jeweler is making the process easier for you at a steep price.

I have to agree with @nala that $10K for a difference of 0.20 ct is insanity. Nope. Nopity-nope-nope-NOPE. I understand the cut is better, but there's no need to pay that much for it. I mean, what is the difference in actual size?? Will you even be able to tell??

I'd go with a vendor who has a great upgrade policy, whoever that might be.

 

[Morenita21]

I have to agree with @nala that $10K for a difference of 0.20 ct is insanity. Nope. Nopity-nope-nope-NOPE. I understand the cut is better, but there's no need to pay that much for it. I mean, what is the difference in actual size?? Will you even be able to tell??

I'd go with a vendor who has a great upgrade policy, whoever that might be.

I am not paying an extra $10k. Just $3500

 

[nala]

I am not paying an extra $10k. Just $3500

Well then I take back all I suggested.

 

[lovedogs]

I am not paying an extra $10k. Just $3500

I would still recommend looking at an ASET/IS before committing, and staying open to the possibility of using an ideal stone vendor like WF instead. In my mind, you want your money to go as far as possible and you don't want another disappointment, even if it's "only" $3500 more.

 

[Morenita21]

I would still recommend looking at an ASET/IS before committing, and staying open to the possibility of using an ideal stone vendor like WF instead. In my mind, you want your money to go as far as possible and you don't want another disappointment, even if it's "only" $3500 more.

I agree. US$3500 is way more in Canadian dollars!!

 

[msop04]

I am not paying an extra $10k. Just $3500

That's better, for sure... but I'd want to feel like the extra $3500 was worth it. When I upgraded from a 2.43 J/SI1 to a 3.33 I/SI2 (eye clean, MUCH better cut), the difference was $6000... but I got a better color, MUCH better cut, and almost a carat (1.1 mm) extra in size. To me, that was worth it... make sure whatever you spend is worth what you'll be getting in return.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

The 1.54 looks to be a lovely stone. I don't consider 35 / 40.8 disqualifying proportions. I have 3 stones with these proportions, in fact, one of them is 35.1 with 40.8, a beautifully cut sparkly stone with great fire. We have seen super ideals cut with optimum numbers that don't perform. Ask for an ASET if they can provide one for you. However, if they cannot, I would consider buying this stone. If it looks great to your eyes, is a balance between size & budget, go for it. I don't know where you are located in Canada but if you have an opportunity to cross the border & view the stone in the US, that would be ideal. This way, if you didn't like it, you could easily ship it back (vendors would provide a label for this so it's super easy) especially if you are at Fed.Ex anyway. I would pay $3500 to get a better cut stone even at only an increase of .20 size.

 

[Morenita21]

The 1.54 looks to be a lovely stone. I don't consider 35 / 40.8 disqualifying proportions. I have 3 stones with these proportions, in fact, one of them is 35.1 with 40.8, a beautifully cut sparkly stone with great fire. We have seen super ideals cut with optimum numbers that don't perform. Ask for an ASET if they can provide one for you. However, if they cannot, I would consider buying this stone. If it looks great to your eyes, is a balance between size & budget, go for it. I don't know where you are located in Canada but if you have an opportunity to cross the border & view the stone in the US, that would be ideal. This way, if you didn't like it, you could easily ship it back (vendors would provide a label for this so it's super easy) especially if you are at Fed.Ex anyway. I would pay $3500 to get a better cut stone even at only an increase of .20 size.

Don’t get me wrong, if I could get an excellent larger stone at my budget of course I’d do it. But I’d rather have a smaller , better quality and performing stone than a larger less than beautiful stone.

 

[nala]

So what is your total out of pocket cash budget. NOT including the value of your trade-in stone? I think that’s why some of us are confused.

 

[nala]

That's better, for sure... but I'd want to feel like the extra $3500 was worth it. When I upgraded from a 2.43 J/SI1 to a 3.33 I/SI2 (eye clean, MUCH better cut), the difference was $6000... but I got a better color, MUCH better cut, and almost a carat (1.1 mm) extra in size. To me, that was worth it... make sure whatever you spend is worth what you'll be getting in return.

Wow! Did you use an upgrade policy with the original vendor? Or was it a new vendor? Would you mind Sharing the vendor if they are open to trades? I would love a 3 plus carat at that price point!

 

[msop04]

Wow! Did you use an upgrade policy with the original vendor? Or was it a new vendor? Would you mind Sharing the vendor if they are open to trades? I would love a 3 plus carat at that price point!

I used my upgrade policy via Diamonds Direct. I haggled with them and brought in comps to help my negotiations. They eventually came down almost $8K, but I was a tough customer. They knew I was ready to upgrade, but I told them if they couldn't swing the price drop that I'd wait and come back another time. Guess they wanted the sale. I also managed to upgrade when RAP was really low (and was higher when I bought the first). They used take outside trades, but since they've grown, I don't think they do anymore. It's worth a try though, if you have a showroom near you. TBH, I don't think I would be able to get even remotely close to the deal I got then... diamonds have just gotten much more expensive. I was very lucky.

ETA: DD's upgrade policy is 110% of original purchase price toward the upgrade... as long as you spend $1 more.

 

[sledge]

I see alot of confusion in this thread and want to clarify a few things:

Budget
OP is willing to trade her existing stone + max $3,500 cash to do an upgrade. She values the total trade transaction at a max value of $10k total, meaning the NYC dealer is giving her roughly $6,500 for her existing stone.

Earlier the OP noted she is getting approx 70 cents on the dollar on this particular trade. Using math it appears OP paid approx $9,300 for the original stone.

$6,500 trade value / 0.70 = $9,286 estimate value of stone being traded

The OP has not confirmed the actual cash amount she has to pay for the 1.51 stone the NYC dealer presented as an option. She has just said her max was $3,500. I would assume that is what the NYC dealer expects but @Morenita21 needs to confirm.

35/40.8 Angle Combo
I am not advocating this angle cannot work. I am saying (and have provided proof) that it's not a guaranteed winner. Simply stated she needs the images to confirm.

Tossing out a 35.1/40.8 reference as a method to disagree tells me immediately that is an AGS stone, probably ideal 0 cut and possibly a real super ideal cut stone. I would absolutley expect it to work in that scenario.

What we do know is that per a GIA cert it has some peoportions that may work. My references earlier clearly show a GIA certified 35/40.8 combo isn't a guaranteed winner so I will stick by it can be hit or miss until we have images proving otherwise. For the OP's sake I hope this is the best stone ever. At the same time, our data is too limited to assure her of that right now.

H&A
I am less hung up on the OP getting perfect H&A symmetry which is a trait of super ideals as I am about the fact the NYC dealer said the stone in question was a super ideal.

Don't promise me a new loaded Chevy and show up with a new stripped down base model.

The images will prove more once posted. As already stated some GIA stones have great H&A symmetry but its not common.

 

[Morenita21]

I see alot of confusion in this thread and want to clarify a few things:

Budget
OP is willing to trade her existing stone + max $3,500 cash to do an upgrade. She values the total trade transaction at a max value of $10k total, meaning the NYC dealer is giving her roughly $6,500 for her existing stone.

Earlier the OP noted she is getting approx 70 cents on the dollar on this particular trade. Using math it appears OP paid approx $9,300 for the original stone.

$6,500 trade value / 0.70 = $9,286 estimate value of stone being traded

The OP has not confirmed the actual cash amount she has to pay for the 1.51 stone the NYC dealer presented as an option. She has just said her max was $3,500. I would assume that is what the NYC dealer expects but @Morenita21 needs to confirm.

35/40.8 Angle Combo
I am not advocating this angle cannot work. I am saying (and have provided proof) that it's not a guaranteed winner. Simply stated she needs the images to confirm.

Tossing out a 35.1/40.8 reference as a method to disagree tells me immediately that is an AGS stone, probably ideal 0 cut and possibly a real super ideal cut stone. I would absolutley expect it to work in that scenario.

What we do know is that per a GIA cert it has some peoportions that may work. My references earlier clearly show a GIA certified 35/40.8 combo isn't a guaranteed winner so I will stick by it can be hit or miss until we have images proving otherwise. For the OP's sake I hope this is the best stone ever. At the same time, our data is too limited to assure her of that right now.

H&A
I am less hung up on the OP getting perfect H&A symmetry which is a trait of super ideals as I am about the fact the NYC dealer said the stone in question was a super ideal.

Don't promise me a new loaded Chevy and show up with a new stripped down base model.

The images will prove more once posted. As already stated some GIA stones have great H&A symmetry but its not common.

Hi @sledge
Yes, budget for stone is $6500 trade in value plus $3500 (out of my pocket) for stone only. I have to spend a little more to have my ring redone but I am just asking about the stone itself.

I really just want a beautiful, better performing stone that makes me happy when I wear it like my old smaller stone.

I will definitely post the IS and ASET images once I get them but I will also need to see the diamond in different lighting conditions as really, my eyes are what will determine the beauty in the stone.

 

[sledge]

Hi @sledge
Yes, budget for stone is $6500 trade in value plus $3500 (out of my pocket) for stone only. I have to spend a little more to have my ring redone but I am just asking about the stone itself.

I really just want a beautiful, better performing stone that makes me happy when I wear it like my old smaller stone.

I will definitely post the IS and ASET images once I get them but I will also need to see the diamond in different lighting conditions as really, my eyes are what will determine the beauty in the stone.

You are correct. All the data in the world only matters when you see it in person and it comes alive.

By chance are you working with Yeukitel at IDJ? He has a great reputation here.

 

[Morenita21]

You are correct. All the data in the world only matters when you see it in person and it comes alive.

By chance are you working with Yeukitel at IDJ? He has a great reputation here.

No, never heard of him. I’m a newbie on this forum.

 

[LLJsmom]

I just wanted to share a diamond that I saw IRL that was a terrific performer. 35.4 / 40.9 IRL it was a killer. In addition to the ASET, is there a way they can take more videos, indoors, away from jewelry store lighting, outdoors, etc? Sounds like a vendor who wants to be helpful.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-3-0-but-ags-000.234578/

 

[Morenita21]

I just wanted to share a diamond that I saw IRL that was a terrific performer. 35.4 / 40.9 IRL it was a killer. In addition to the ASET, is there a way they can take more videos, indoors, away from jewelry store lighting, outdoors, etc? Sounds like a vendor who wants to be helpful.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-3-0-but-ags-000.234578/

Yes, he will take more videos in different lighting. He is extremely quick at getting back to me and keeping me in the loop which I truly appreciate. Because it’s the weekend, I will contact him Monday for the additional images and videos.

 

[PintoBean]

These might be decent choices, with great upgrade policy
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3947706,4001980

bigger on SI1
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4045672,4018629

Throwing WF stones out there as an option is jumping the gun. The first thing OP would have to do is find out if WF would also buy her diamond for 70% of what she paid, assuming that the $3500 out of pocket is firm.

Yes, he will take more videos in different lighting. He is extremely quick at getting back to me and keeping me in the loop which I truly appreciate. Because it’s the weekend, I will contact him Monday for the additional images and videos.

I think i know who the vendor is based on the pics of the fingers and you saying that his response time is quick. I can vouch that you are in good hands with this vendor.

Meanwhile, let's summarize what you're search constraints are:
Carat: 1.5ct+
Color: D-high I
Clarity: SI1+
Out of pocket/amount for new stone: $3500/$10,000

Is this correct? We can help you by suggesting additional stones for your vendor to pull.

 

[Morenita21]

Throwing WF stones out there as an option is jumping the gun. The first thing OP would have to do is find out if WF would also buy her diamond for 70% of what she paid, assuming that the $3500 out of pocket is firm.
I think i know who the vendor is based on the pics of the fingers and you saying that his response time is quick. I can vouch that you are in good hands with this vendor.

Meanwhile, let's summarize what you're search constraints are:
Carat: 1.5ct+
Color: D-high I
Clarity: SI1+
Out of pocket/amount for new stone: $3500/$10,000

Is this correct? We can help you by suggesting additional stones for your vendor to pull.

Yes, stats are correct. Hmmmm.....I wonder if you really know who I’m talking about.

 

[Morenita21]

Throwing WF stones out there as an option is jumping the gun. The first thing OP would have to do is find out if WF would also buy her diamond for 70% of what she paid, assuming that the $3500 out of pocket is firm.
I think i know who the vendor is based on the pics of the fingers and you saying that his response time is quick. I can vouch that you are in good hands with this vendor.

Meanwhile, let's summarize what you're search constraints are:
Carat: 1.5ct+
Color: D-high I
Clarity: SI1+
Out of pocket/amount for new stone: $3500/$10,000

Is this correct? We can help you by suggesting additional stones for your vendor to pull.

Ok....I think you do know who I’m talking about. I feel he is genuine and my gut is telling me I am in good hands. I guess that’s why I do want to work with him.
He’s transparent, gives honest advice, is extremely patient and extremely detailed.

 

[sledge]

I just wanted to share a diamond that I saw IRL that was a terrific performer. 35.4 / 40.9 IRL it was a killer. In addition to the ASET, is there a way they can take more videos, indoors, away from jewelry store lighting, outdoors, etc? Sounds like a vendor who wants to be helpful.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-3-0-but-ags-000.234578/

Very interesting. I would agree the 35.4/40.9 angle combo is not something we would typically recommend. Yet, the stone clearly met AGS000 certification, despite having a small area of leakage on the computer generated ASET.

This stone has proportions that I'd consider on the "fringe". It's because the stone was well cut and had a high degree of symmetry that it was able to pull off those proportions and obtain an ideal 0 cut grade. An average cut stone would have been a much different result.

Essentially, optimal faceting saved it's rear, lol.

The stone scored an HCA of 3 because of that leakage. You can see it in the pictures you posted. That said, there is a note that not everyone reads that says you can go up to a 3 in well cut stones. This stone is why that note was written.



I might add that while I find HCA useful, I don't believe it to be the end all answer. Mainly because it's making assumptions based on rounded/averaged values from a report that you stick into it. Also, it either excludes or makes additional assumptions about the minor facets. Not saying it isn't well written or any of that, but it's just limited by it's very nature. Still, it's a great tool.

But in the case of this particular stone, AGS does a 3D scan and considers how the minor facets play into the equation as well, which essentially supersedes what the HCA says.

So how does all this relate back to the OP? I think all would agree a 35.4/40.9 is not a combo many would recommend here. Yet it worked, mainly because of optimal faceting. That combo is much more controversial than a 35/40.8. However, the precision of the cut and symmetry does come into play in all situations.

 

[Morenita21]

Ok. So one more diamond for possible consideration (saying this only because it has not been confirmed eye-clean yet). Comparing to the 1.54 the only difference I notice is clarity is lower at SI1 and color at H. Size wise - negligible (barely a difference). What do you all think if this is eye clean and IS and ASET pictures are great which would you choose?

I’ve posted the 1.54 specs and the 1.57 for review.

Thank you!

 

[EvaEvans]

I wouldn't buy SI diamond.
I prefer table 55% VS 57%.
Your current diamond that you DON'T like has 57% table and SI clarity, and still, you are leading to the same specifications?!

 

[kmoro]

Ok. So one more diamond for possible consideration (saying this only because it has not been confirmed eye-clean yet). Comparing to the 1.54 the only difference I notice is clarity is lower at SI1 and color at H. Size wise - negligible (barely a difference). What do you all think if this is eye clean and IS and ASET pictures are great which would you choose?

I’ve posted the 1.54 specs and the 1.57 for review.

Thank you!

Any reason you’re sticking to the 35 CA 40.8 PA combo? I think 35 PA goes better with 40.6 PA ...
Can you find a vs1 or some improvement in clarity over SI1 that isn’t all the way up to vvs1 ? Of the two new ones, I think the 1.54 is better with the 55 table.

 

[blueMA]

57% for the table is just fine (some people actually prefer that), and I like that the stone is a bit shallower and the stone will be more brilliant (even if not accounting for H) than fiery all else equal. However, again, without an IS and ASET it'd all be speculation. Have the dealer lower the crown to mid 35.*% for the 40.8 pavilion.

 

[lovedogs]

I wouldn't buy SI diamond.
I prefer table 55% VS 57%.
Your current diamond that you DON'T like has 57% table and SI clarity, and still, you are leading to the same specifications?!

Why wouldn't you buy an SI diamond? There are tons of gorgeous SIs that are eye clean. Also, nothing wrong with a 57% table, even though its not what everyone prefers.

 

[Morenita21]

I wouldn't buy SI diamond.
I prefer table 55% VS 57%.
Your current diamond that you DON'T like has 57% table and SI clarity, and still, you are leading to the same specifications?!

I like the 1.54 and it’s a better quality stone in clarity but I am keeping my options open. I need to see options.