Help purchasing first diamond.

[nwbe123]

Hello.
I am about to purchase my first diamond, but am unsure if I am getting a good deal? The diamond that I am interested in is as follows:

Cut: AGS Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Carat: 0.978
Fluorescence: Negligible
Table: 56%
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavilion Depth: 41.0deg
Table Depth: 61.4%
Culet: very small

They are asking $5000 for the diamond. I believe that the cut is very good, but am worried that the color will be somewhat yellowish and that some inclusions will be visible.

Will the color be noticeable when mounted on a platinum ring? Also, is this a good deal for this diamond?

Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much!!!

 

[Rank Amateur]

Welcome!

Did you see this thread? https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fyi-picture-of-a-d-and-i-color-next-to-each-other.11115/ It has a lot about color in it.

I wouldn't worry about the inclusions in a VS2, but make sure you have a good return policy just in case. I professional appraiser may also take away some of your angst and some vendors will send stones to an appraiser without any up front $$.

Did you read about the HCA here on Pricescope and run your stone through it? Have you put your eyes on it?

 

[valeria101]

On 12/16/2003 5:14:50 PM nwbe123 wrote:



[...] a good deal?


Cut: AGS Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Carat: 0.978
Fluorescence: Negligible
Table: 56%
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavilion Depth: 41.0deg
Table Depth: 61.4%
Culet: very small


They are asking $5000 for the diamond.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




Are you joking? This is no bargain... by about 1.5K. And here goes why:




Cut: this is a good cut, but certainly not worth the premium. I am using the HCA scoring to say this, and it is a quite reliable reference, at least for telling what's wrong. This has little chance to be a top cut. oh, and I guess it should have been "pavilion ange" and "total depth" above, otherwise those words make little sense, sorry...




Color and Clarity: these are Ok. I is plenty white (and the stone is not huge to allow fine tuning without magnification). VS2 is completely eye clean, ALWAYS. If you ever see an inclusion in a VS2, call me

Cost: Now, that's the bug. A non-branded H&A would be as much as 1k cheaper at any of the online sellers PriceScope posters have bought from. It can get cheaper though. So, no deal... This price may be justifiable for a guaranteed exceptional cut (where 'guarantee' should be some light return analysis via things like Idealscope or Briliancescope). You can get better (in either cut or color, clarity would notmake any sense upgrading) for this price. It may be that this price difference is not alot of money for a diamond, but in this case is a good% of the total price (a third!!!) so it makes all the sense in the world for me to encourage you to look for something better.


Hope this helps...




If you want a relatively quick lesson in diamond optics (without advising clients to pay any premium, mind you) check the GoodOldGold site for it's awsome tutorial. Of course you have every reason not to optimize either of the C's (including cut) to death (which GOG does, for the interest of theoretical exacteness, I guess) but at least the cost then.

 

[nwbe123]

Thank you all - you have been very helpful. I, of course, decided to look around some more. I found two stones that are of interest to me, but have a couple of questions concerning them?

First one...
AGS 000, 1.01ct
Color: G
Clarity: VS1
Depth: 60.8
Crown: 34.2
Pavil: 40.5
Scores a 0.6 HCA
$6500

Second one...
AGS H&A, 1.028ct
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Depth: 60.5
Crown: 34.7
Pavil: 40.7
Scores a 1.0 HCA
$6800

Which one is considered the better stone? Will H&A make a difference in determining brilliance that will be better than the non-H&A? What are the advantages of a H&A vs a non-H&A? I looked around somewhat, am I correct in saying that these are of a good price?

Thank you again for your time and patience!

 

[DEVO]

I would go with the H&A one... the price is good but I seen similar stats for a little less.




Try the quality search on this site.

 

[aljdewey]

I'd prefer #2 - the proportions are tighter on this one for not a lot more. Seems to be the best of all worlds.




On the first stone, both the crown angle and the pavilion angle seem to be just a lllllllliiiiiiiiiiittle bit out of the "sweet spot". This is reflected in the HCA score - 0.6. That's about the bottom tolerance because a diamond needs contrast in order to perform well, too.




If there were a huge price difference, #1 may be a way to save, but for the $300 on a stone in this range, I'd definitely go #2 if it were my decision.




Regarding H&A.....it doesn't automatically mean a stone will perform better, per se, but it increases the odds of good performance. What H&A does do....it tells you that someone cut this stone with an attention to detail to achieve optimal symmetry. Chances are, if a cutter takes such pains with the symmetry, then it's unlikely other details about the diamond will be "sloppy"....so I believe it does increase the odds of the stone being a solid performer.

 

[Mara]

How did you jump from I VS2 to G VS2? It's almost another $2k.




I would drop the color and clarity a tad to something like H SI1 or even G SI1. This allows a larger stone with H&A for much less then the $6500 of the other stones.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 12/17/2003 12:35:25 PM aljdewey wrote:
<On the first stone, both the crown angle and the pavilion angle seem to be just a litle bit out of the 'sweet spot'. This is reflected in the HCA score - 0.6. That's about the bottom tolerance because a diamond needs contrast in order to perform well, too.----------------

Setting apart two diamonds on the basis of 0.4 HCA score difference must be taugh. Is there any evidence that such a difference is meaningful at all?

Well, I would agree with Mara that without a budget limit choosing is somewhat random. Also, shifting through diamonds would probably result in a progressive increase in the final expense (at least this is what PS posts would lead one to believe). Setting a target for what the stone should be like, then choosin among Cs within a fix budget would lead to a more systematic approach. A size limit (low-limit taht is) also helps in absence of budget as long as the limit is defined in mm not carats. What are YOUR priorities?

 

[nwbe123]

Ok, I was going over my budget with the last two rings.

I looked through the rings taht Mara suggested and I liked the .99 H VS2 H&A one most.
I did notice that it has a medium blue fl. How would this affect the appearance of the diamond?

I also found the following...
1.014, H, VS2, $5715, Depth 60.7, Table 57, crown 34.7, pavillion 40.7.

Any comments on the two?

 

[Mara]

Med blue flour in an H is excellent actually, should make it face up more like a G. Shouldn't have any negative effects on the stone.




Also another thing about a .99c stone is that chances are the cutter did a great job with it for it to come in right under 1c. If they had made that girdle .01c thicker then that stone may not perform AS WELL but would command a higher price point for meeting the 1c mark. Many cutters tend to maximize ctw to get that extra $$. So in essence, this could be a great deal, and it's essentially a 1c stone anyway for all visual purposes

 

[Kay]

----------------
On 12/17/2003 2:04:39 PM Mara wrote:


Med blue flour in an H is excellent actually, should make it face up more like a G. Shouldn't have any negative effects on the stone.


Also another thing about a .99c stone is that chances are the cutter did a great job with it for it to come in right under 1c. If they had made that girdle .01c thicker then that stone may not perform AS WELL but would command a higher price point for meeting the 1c mark. Many cutters tend to maximize ctw to get that extra $$. So in essence, this could be a great deal, and it's essentially a 1c stone anyway for all visual purposes

----------------

I agree. Med Blue is definitely a positive factor because it will make the stone look "whiter" than an H w/o fluorescence. My D has med blue fluor and I love the effect. This stone will look like a 1 carat stone w/o the mark-up that comes with hitting that magic number. You should be aware that a lot of people hunt for stones just under the one carat mark for this reason, so nicely cut stones in the .9-.99 range move quickly. Looks like a nice rock for under $5 grand.

 

[nwbe123]

Thank you all again for your help! The blue fl. stone is on hold and I should know by tomorrow if it is sold or not. Linda did send me the following (along with the pictures)...

"The 0.998 H VS2 is a gorgeous eye clean diamond. Under high magnification, the main inclusion is a thin white feather that lies in the heart of the stone. The Arrows pattern is beautifully crisp and complete, with one heart being slightly misshapen than the others as a result of two pavilion half facets being a tiny bit longer than the others. The idealscope image shows minimal light leakage. It is brilliant and stunning."

Should I expect any "performance" decrease as a result of the heart being misshapen?

Thanks again!!

 

[Mara]

Not if the IS image is eye-popping. Can you post the IS image here for us to see? Sounds yummy!! That may be why the price is better also.

So you can possibly get an excellent deal.




When you say the stone is on hold but it may be sold, do you mean to yourself?

 

[canadiangrrl]

No.

 

[nwbe123]

No, "on hold" means that someone else has it on hold. Hopefully they won't purchase it.

 

[Mara]

Is that strange gray/green area where the hearts are misshapen? Image looks pretty darn good! However that gray/green area is weird..what is it?

 

[nwbe123]

This image helps to show where the heart is misshaped.

 

[Mara]

Interesting, so what about the area showing up green/gray in the ideal scope image. Does that mean that the area is dead in terms of light return? That is what would worry me....not really the heart image but that odd colored area. It's not red, its not black and it's not white. I wouldn't want it to show up as some odd black dead area in the stone.

 

[nwbe123]

Ok, when the picture was taken of the hearts pattern, the stone was not centered correctly. Here is the updated picture...

 

[Mara]

Better. What did Linda say about the gray/green area in the IS image? Is that area returning ANY light?

 

[nwbe123]

New ideal scope image also... It seems, however that the gray area still exists.

 

[nwbe123]

I am still awaiting her reply.

 

[nwbe123]

Linda states:
"Please see the updated image we just sent you -
the gray/green area has disappeared (unfortunately the picture was slightly
out of focus). There is an area of light leakage there but nothing that is
noticeable to the naked eye. It is a very small amount of light leakage due
to the slightly longer facets. This does not affect the visual performance
of the stone."


I also requested pictures of the stone aljdewey has suggested.

 

[Mara]

Updated image? Looks like the gray-green area is still there or am I blind?

 

[Mara]

Linda! Maybe you can answer the Q about the gray/green area....what is going on in that IdealScope image.

 

[nwbe123]

Here is the image that you requested...

 

[strmrdr]

I can see the miscut area in the last picture.
Id pass unless there was a large discount on this diamond.

 

[Mara]

Hmm I actually don't see anything in that last picture, but it's hard to really tell....it's so sparkly.

This stone does seem to be discounted, nwbe, what are your thoughts?

 

[strmrdr]

While this might be a decent looking diamond in person but it is not up to the premium h&a standards as represented by GOG's diamonds or whiteflash's aca line.
In my opinion the price should reflect that.
Linda has stated that she has alternatives that are closer to that ideal available I would look into those as well as the offerings by the other vendors.

 

[diamondsman]

Will the color be noticeable when mounted on a platinum ring? Also, is this a good deal for this diamond?

The lowest I would mount in platinum is an I color ,I would even suggest that you should try to go to one shade higher,and one clarity lower.

as far as price is concerened check out different vendors on the web ,for the same/similar stones and see how you are doing as far as $$$$ are concerend.

happy holidays