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HELP! PLEASE SOMEONE HELP!

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Pro_skibum12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
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2
HERE GOES!

1.IS THERE A HIGH AND LOW RAPAPORT LIST? I HAVE A COPY OF ONE AND IT SAYS "JANUARY 31ST, 2003 VOLUME 26 NO 5 APPROXIMATE HIGH CASH ASKING PRICE INDICATIONS................"

2.IS THERE ALSO A MORE RECENT RAPAPORT SHEET OUT?

3.MINE ALSO SAYS PEAR ON IT; ARE THESE PRICES THE SAME FOR ONE THAT HAS PRINCESS?

4.I BOUGHT A PRINCESS CUT, 1.21 CARAT, I COLOR, VS2 CLARITY, AND PAYED $4100 FOR IT. DID I GET RIPPED????CAUSE THE JEWLER I BOUGHT THIS ROCK FROM FAXED ME OVER THE RAPAPORT SHEET WHICH I AM REFRANCING ABOVE, AND BASED OFF THIS SHEET AND WHAT HE TOLD ME WHEN I CALLED HIM TO SEE ABOUT UPGRADING IT HE CHARGED ME $500 MORE THE THE RAPAPORT HAD IT FOR. I KNOW THE RAPAPORT IS JUST A TOOL THEY USE TO FIGURE OUT A ROUND ABOUT PRICE BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT YOU CAN ALMOST ALWAYS GET THEM LOWER THEN THE RAPAPORT PRICE! NOW I KNOW I MADE A FEW BIG MISTAKES BEFORE I BOUGHT THIS ROCK. I.E. I DIDNT GO AROUND TO THE OTHER JEWLERS ASKING THEM HOW MUCH A ROCK WITH THESE SPECS WOULD RUN, I DIDN''T BOTHER TO ASK HIM TO SHOW ME THE RAPAPORT BEFORE I BOUGHT IT SO I COULD SEE THE PRICE AND HOW HE WAS FIGURING IT, I LET MY EMOTION AND EXCITMENT GET IN THE WAY OF WHAT I WAS REALLY LOOKING FOR, AND I BOUGHT THIS DIAMOND WHEN I REALLY WENT THERE LOOKING FOR A BETTER GRADE AND COLOR!

5. I HAVE TALKED TO THE JEWLER AND EXPLAIND THAT I NOW WANT A BETTER GRADE COLOR AND A BETTER CLARITY, AND HE IS LOOKING FOR ONE BUT HOW DO I NOW NIGOTIATE WITH HIM SO THAT I DONT GET RIPPED AGAIN SINCE THERE ARE NO REFUNDS ONLY IN STORE CREDIT!

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
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4,357
Sorry, but could you re-type your question in upper and lowercase? The all-caps was so hard to read that I couldn't get past the first few sentences. (I tried though!)
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
BTW, in the internet language, caps mean that you are shouting...
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441
Um, I managed to get through the all caps, unlike Hest
so let's see.

1) There is only one Rapaport list.

2) Yes. It comes out every two weeks, though fancy shape prices come out less often but certainly there have been several since January.

3) No. Pears and princess prices are not the same.

4) I'd say you paid a bit much but in line with what you'd expect to pay at a jewelry store instead of online. I don't think you got ripped off unless this was a really poorly cut stone.

Someone can correct me here, but I don't think you're supposed to fax Rap sheets because copying them is a big no-no. Note the "It is illegal and unethical to make copies" plastered across the copy you have.

5) If you're that worried about getting ripped off, insist on a stone with a GIA or AGS cert, and see if the jeweler is willing let you get it independently appraised before you buy it.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 7/15/2003 4:17
3 PM Pro_skibum12 wrote:


5. I HAVE TALKED TO THE JEWLER AND EXPLAIND THAT I NOW WANT A BETTER GRADE COLOR AND A BETTER CLARITY, AND HE IS LOOKING FOR ONE BUT HOW DO I NOW NIGOTIATE WITH HIM SO THAT I DONT GET RIPPED AGAIN SINCE THERE ARE NO REFUNDS ONLY IN STORE CREDIT!

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!
----------------
I'm confused. You think the jeweler ripped you off the first time; yet, you want to go back to him for more? Or am I not understanding correctly?
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
----------------
Um, I managed to get through the all caps, unlike Hest so let's see.
----------------
Yeah, but Lawgem, you're a lawyer so you have a high level of tolerance for nearly indecipherable writing, right?
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441

----------------
On 7/15/2003 5
1
0 PM Hest88 wrote:

----------------
Um, I managed to get through the all caps, unlike Hest so let's see.
----------------

Yeah, but Lawgem, you're a lawyer so you have a high level of tolerance for nearly indecipherable writing, right?

----------------
Yep--especially my own.
 

Pro_skibum12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
2
Sorry about the all caps things guy sbut let me try it again and answer some of the questions!

HERE GOES!

1.Is there a high and low rapaport Sheet cause the one i have is a "High Cash Asking Price" one?

2.Is there also a more recent rapaport sheet out, and what would be the most curent for the princess cut stones?


3.I Bought a Princess Cut, 1.21 Carat, I Color, VS2 Clarity, GIA Certified & payed$4100 for it! Was this a good or bad price?

4.Due to the fact that the jewler i bought this from will not refund my money but he will give me instore credit i am forced to deal with him if i want to up grade to the color and clarity diamond i want, unless someone knows of a way i can go to another dealer and get the same credit so that i can upgrade with them? other wise i am going to be forced to deal with this jewler or save my money all over again to go back and get the diamond i want from a new dealer! only problem with saving again is that im on a lil bit of a time frame since i was planning on getting engaged Augaust 9th, 2003!


so if you have any more ideas please help!!! PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!

 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Yes diamonds are sold within the trade at +15 to -60% off Rap.
But how would you know what your diamond is worth
unless you're an expert ? The only way for you to
know that you got a good deal is to compare
the diamond you bought with others alike.
That's it.

Rap sheet is not a miraculous answer to your questions.

Trichrome.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
BTW Trich is right, sadly, a people not in the biz has a difficult time understanding rap (and the rap between dealers & retailers).

Good luck.

I forget who (Giangi maybe) - do a search on pricescope - play with it a long time.....your answers will come.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272

----------------
On 7/16/2003 8:55:22 PM Furthermore wrote:
Rap is only used for trade to trade sales.

If Joe Public walks into a jewelers and starts talking about Rap prices, the first question will be "Are you trade? " followed by "Then why are you expecting a trade discount ? "......


Best regards
Furthermore ;-))

----------------
Yep.

Rap, while an indicator is certainly not the rule of thumb in alot of cases. Theoretically speaking the poorer the cut quality the deeper the discount but just because you're paying a higher price does not necessarily mean you're getting the better cut quality either. This is where education comes to play. I've seen many deals where the diamond was a poor cut quality and a premium was being charged for the stone with all kinds of reasons given (smoke and mirrors) when after the smoke was cleared was no better than the common cut quality on the market. Symbolism over substance. This is where the value of a trained jeweler/gemologist comes to play who can take a client by the hand and safely guide them through the maze of confusion that exists in this industry.

It's difficult to say whether you got ripped or got a good deal becuase noone on these boards can properly assess your diamond. You may want to seek the help of one of the independant appraisers here (https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.asp) before you jump to conclusions one way or the other.

My .02c,

Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272

To answer your questions more directly ...

My responses will be in bold.


----------------
On 7/16/2003 2
8:13 PM Pro_skibum12 wrote:
Sorry about the all caps things guy sbut let me try it again and answer some of the questions!

HERE GOES!

1.Is there a high and low rapaport Sheet cause the one i have is a "High Cash Asking Price" one?

No. One Rapport Sheet. Rounds come out every week (though the prices rarely ever change), fancies once a month. Most people in the trade base all fancies off the pear sheet though not all are discounted the same.

2.Is there also a more recent rapaport sheet out, and what would be the most curent for the princess cut stones?

It is unethical to make copies of the sheet as Lawgem has pointed out. On a 1.21ct I VS2 I can quote you the current listing which is $4300 per carat (or $5203). Which means you purchased the stone at approx. 20% back from list (and not over like you claimed). This is the importance of being able to read the sheet properly. Jewelers that send this information without teaching their clietns about it almost deserve what they have coming to them.
A tutorial about the subject of Rap price sheets you can find on our website under the 4C's Main Menu and the chapter of Carat Weight. A stone that YOU purchased at 20% back means it was probably purchased by your dealer at 40-60% back and most of us in the trade know what cut quality you get for that price.

3.I Bought a Princess Cut, 1.21 Carat, I Color, VS2 Clarity, GIA Certified & payed$4100 for it! Was this a good or bad price?

Sounds like you weren't taken advantage of but at the same time if you got what you paid for (which is more than likely the case) I'm willing to bet either your table or total depth is equal to or greater than 80% or both.
Tell me I'm right.

4.Due to the fact that the jewler i bought this from will not refund my money but he will give me instore credit i am forced to deal with him if i want to up grade to the color and clarity diamond i want, unless someone knows of a way i can go to another dealer and get the same credit so that i can upgrade with them? other wise i am going to be forced to deal with this jewler or save my money all over again to go back and get the diamond i want from a new dealer! only problem with saving again is that im on a lil bit of a time frame since i was planning on getting engaged Augaust 9th, 2003!

If you work with the people here on this forum, they can, to a degree help guide you into a princess cut with acceptable proportions which will help you get a better looking diamond if that is what you're after. Most jewelry stores (including my own) do not take tradeins of diamonds purchased elsewhere because the general public do not have the expertise or scrutiny in selecting a diamond that geeks like me have (see our website for details in how we select our stones). We help our clients sell whatever diamond it is they have (if they purchase from us) but the sale of our diamond is not based on the purchase or sale of their diamond. It could sell in a week or it can sell in 10 years. No promises there.

so if you have any more ideas please help!!! PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!

If you'll get back what you paid for the stone you purchased from this person you got it from, and you drop me an email I'll see what I can do to help guide you into a more beautiful stone. I am going away on a short vaction tomorrow though ... and considering your deadline maybe I shouldn't have offered help, but if you have patience the most beautiful diamonds in the world are not stones that appear overnight in most cases. Plus you have people on the forum who can help.

Peace,
Rhino
----------------
 
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