Help Please on Type 11a

[Texas Leaguer]

Thank you all! I live in a small town, do you all think or @Texas Leaguer think my local jeweler would be able to assess it, independently or is specialized equipment involved.? Or, do I need to get someone like Richard Wise (who seems to know a lot about these types of stones as they are mentioned in his book). My mother had a ring made by him and that's why I mention him. However, I think last I heard he is retired?

If you have a connection with Richard Wise and he will look at the stone for you by all means go that route. There are also a few excellent experts here that you could enlist : @denverappraiser @oldminer

 

[AV_]

@Starfacet IMO, the stone isn’t pricey. In fact, that somewhat contributes to the reason I wanted to ask the forum about it and the premium of Type IIa stones.

I'd say that the diamond type is an obscure technical detail, it is sometimes mentioned as a good thing & no more [the seed of truth in these claims is hard to find - the nicest I can find: the largest colourless diamonds might as well be mostly of this type, where 'mostly' in somethign GIA might as well know, as many of these things pass through their hands - dream]

Richard Wise used to pass by here [not for a while!]. I do not know how he takes business calls, but he might as well; the last time I've been in touch, he was doing last edits to the latest edition of his book & I was working on natural pearls, so we had what to talk about.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'd say that the diamond type is an obscure technical detail, it is sometimes mentioned as a good thing & no more [the seed of truth in these claims is hard to find - the nicest I can find: the largest colourless diamonds might as well be mostly of this type, where 'mostly' in somethign GIA might as well know, as many of these things pass through their hands - dream]

Richard Wise used to pass by here [not for a while!]. I do not know how he takes business calls, but he might as well; the last time I've been in touch, he was doing last edits to the latest edition of his book & I was working on natural pearls, so we had what to talk about.

I agree - the report is usually mainly offered with larger mainly round D Flawless down to E VVS1 - so called investment stones (They are harder to get rid of than an STD).

Type II is often brownish, so they are not all D plus colours.
Type II because of their purity tend to grow very quickly and most of the exceptionally large diamonds ever found were type II

So what you are buying - it kinda make sense that it may add a little value

 

[Skadiskadi]

Thanks for your replies! If I don’t go with the Type 11a, I am considering something along these lines.

3.51-Carat Emerald Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com

3.51 Carat emerald diamond

This emerald cut 3.51 carat E color vs2 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

3.51 Carat emerald diamond

This emerald cut 3.51 carat E color vs2 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[AV_]

I do like the first stone better because of its bright cut and long-ish shape; the details I see are also important.

-

digressing: I am rather fond of this company & their taste & there is this D ready to wear www - there is never much choice from them, but there is also almost nothing quite like this stuff anywhere else [the sentence above still stands]

 

[Starfacet]

Thanks for your replies! If I don’t go with the Type 11a, I am considering something along these lines.

3.51 Carat emerald diamond

This emerald cut 3.51 carat E color vs2 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Love the size and brightness of this one. If it were me, I'd forego the iia idea in favor of this larger stone.

 

[denverappraiser]

As mentioned above, IIa is about 1% of the natural diamonds. It's significantly more common among D/IF's but I don't have the percentage. If it's an important attribute to you, it's not that hard to detect but it does require a specialized tool that's used for screening synthetics. They're under $1000 and have become common among geologists. Call up your local store and ask them if they have one. They just might. In any case and in answer to your question, IIa does not generally command a premium. For a lot of people, they go for a discount because of exactly the concern discussed above.

You mentioned that this is an 'investment' piece. Could you explain what you mean by that? That's a red flag word in this industry.

 

[Skadiskadi]

@denverappraiser perhaps, I misspoke by saying “investment”. I want a unique stone for her and Type IIa has been appealing to her for a number of years. I definitely don’t want the stone to decline in value. Maybe it could be considered romance or hype because of all the “famous” stones that come with such a provenance. The Type IIa(s) discussed seem to be usually larger stones (way more than I could afford or would want to spend). This Type IIa stone presented me with a an opportunity to by a stone that she could wear practically wear and I could afford. However, the “premium” for this particular stone may surpass market value and good sense for the times. If diamonds are all about rareness, quality and sparkle then, the following excerpts suggest what intrigues me and my girlfriend about Type IIa. I’m not sure it works in the “real worlthough.
From Whiteflash:
Type IIa Flawless Diamonds
Top gemological laboratories can distinguish diamonds on the basis of their diamond type, which is an important step in separating natural vs synthetic diamonds. Most mined diamonds are type Ia, which contain some nitrogen impurities. These impurities absorb certain wavelengths of light resulting in varying shades of yellow body color. They are also involved in causing blue fluorescence in diamonds. Type IIa diamonds are almost devoid of nitrogen and tend to be colorless and non-fluorescent.
While only about 1% of natural diamonds are type II, most CVD synthetic diamonds are type II. At the lab any type II diamond is referred for advanced testing to determine whether it is a natural mined diamond or a synthetic man made diamond. A natural mined D IF diamond that is type IIa is the rarest of all.

From Sotheby’s: Type 11a diamonds originated in the legendary Golconda region in India. These alluvial deposits, mined since antiquity and long depleted, produced some of the world's most famous and historically important diamonds, including the Koh-i-Nur, the Regent and the Great Mogul, all classified as type 11a. Today the term 'Golconda' is often used to denote quality rather than place and is reserved for those few diamonds that display extreme transparency with no trace of yellow body color.
The absence of color in the present stone, combined with its exceptional transparency, make it a splendid example of a type 11a stone. The large size and beautifully cut only contribute to its desirability.
Thanks again for the responses!

 

[OoohShiny]

There have been some discussions on here over recent months regarding transparency and the (lack of) grading of it, so it would seem that Type IIa is one route to ensure top-notch transparency.

I think stones 'of first water' (to use the historical term, as mentioned on the gemconcepts website @AV_ linked to) have this attribute.


If your other half has always wanted a Type IIa, it would be lovely if you could get one - and perhaps a (reasonable) extra premium on the price would be worth it to achieve this.

You mentioned they are a small broker - on that basis they may be able to be more flexible on price than the larger players. Perhaps you could research a list of comparable carat/colour/clarity stones that are *not* Type IIa and then make an offer around that value - they might push the rarity aspects to ask for more, but as noted previously, such rare 'investment' stones can be difficult for sellers to move on generally, and they may be willing to take less at this moment in time.


re: the video, is this the video they sent you? It looks like it is off another website, so the stone must be listed elsewhere as well. If you have the GIA reference number, you may be able to find it online and view the video directly - and compare the price...

You should not necessarily choose a cheaper vendor after using a local vendor's services - there is an added value of having the local place you can walk into, and that will cost them money to maintain and staff (of course), but if the difference in price was high, you are in a stronger negotiating position.

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

Diamonds are rarely investments and the "depreciation" is quite steep on the resale market, unless you buy it from a retailer with a generous upgrade policy. I would look at buying such a high quality diamond for enjoyment instead.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I disagree that D color diamonds are more likely to be type II.
No evidence mind you.
For example in the late 1990's GIA were tricked by GE company and a company owned by the then Chairman of GIA into falsely grading very large D Flawless diamonds as natural!
Very large type II brown diamonds (I think they are common) were being HPHT treated to remove the colour.
Mr Kaplan stood up infront of the 1999? GIA Symposium and said "this treatment is the same as what occurs naturally and can not be detected".

within a few months Jim Shigley et al worked out how to identify them. They are I believe still on the market but I can not remember the trade name?

 

[Starfacet]

Is this one brand? https://www.tevadiamonds.com/hpht/

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Gemesis - they rebranded in 2014

Gemesis rebrands as ‘Pure Grown Diamonds’

Following the appointment of a new CEO, lab-grown diamond company Gemesis Inc. has announced that it is rebranding itself as “Pure Grown Diamonds.”

www.nationaljeweler.com

 

[denverappraiser]

That was Bellataire. Treated natural diamonds. Gemesis/Pure Grown are synthetic. As mentioned, they're easily detected with the right tools.

 

[Polabowla]

OP do you have more info/photos? Have you decided?

 

[Skadiskadi]

@Polabowla I have not decided. I am still waiting to see one other stone for the first time. The Type IIa I am also waiting on to see again and determine get a second opinion on from my local jeweler.

For the Type 11a (and I will get all this on the other stone, just to do my due diligence) I asked for crown height % and a percentage of variance on the girdle, but the reply was "GIA doesn''t provide this information." What else should I ask? I thought about asking for an IdealScope but, I wouldn't expect the same light return as round cut therefore, I didn't know if this would be helpful? Also, I feel as though the table size, depth and length-to-width are not bad for an emerald cut, but again I am not sure they fall within Class 1a Ideal Cuts for emeralds. At this point I am thinking of sacrificing the Type 11a for a more ideal cut, but I haven't decided. I am also trying to get a Sarin Report on both stones.

Diamond buying, to me at least, is all about the classic quality-quantity debate. Some people can max out both, but the rest of us have to make compromises somewhere. WHERE to compromise is the whole thing, you know? It's such a major purchase (both in terms of $$$ and in terms of what it symbolizes) that there's some stress involved, at least for me.
Thank you for all the responses!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

That was Bellataire. Treated natural diamonds. Gemesis/Pure Grown are synthetic. As mentioned, they're easily detected with the right tools.

Thanks Neil

Bellataire Diamonds - Bellataire

www.bellatairediamonds.com