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Help Please on Type 11a

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
What do you guys think about this diamond for an engagement ring for my girlfriend? She knows a ton about diamonds and is much more into quality over size. This would be an investment piece for us. I am told it comes with GIA cert and letter stating Type 11a but, with all the synthetics out there the Type 11a makes me nervous and I would like some advice about how much more valuable Type 11a actually is???

FOR NATURAL DIAMOND



EMERALD CUT
Measurements Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.24.06 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.23.45 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.23.32 PM.png 9.76 x 6.87 x 3.98 mm
Carat Weight2.50 carat
Color GradeD
Clarity GradeInternally Flawless
PROPORTIONS
Depth57.9 %
Table69 %
GirdleThick
CuletNone
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
FLUORESCENCE
Fluorescence None
 

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
I am sorry, I have promised the seller I wouldn't post the cert. I have seen it though and it checks out with GIA.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,362
What do you guys think about this diamond for an engagement ring for my girlfriend? She knows a ton about diamonds and is much more into quality over size. This would be an investment piece for us. I am told it comes with GIA cert and letter stating Type 11a but, with all the synthetics out there the Type 11a makes me nervous and I would like some advice about how much more valuable Type 11a actually is???

FOR NATURAL DIAMOND



EMERALD CUT
Measurements Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.24.06 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.23.45 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 8.23.32 PM.png 9.76 x 6.87 x 3.98 mm
Carat Weight2.50 carat
Color GradeD
Clarity GradeInternally Flawless
PROPORTIONS
Depth57.9 %
Table69 %
GirdleThick
CuletNone
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
FLUORESCENCE
Fluorescence None
2.5ct D IF Type IIa will indeed be a rare beast.

If it is GIA-graded (and you have checked the grading report number on the website to make sure it's legit) then I would treat it as Mined - they have enough skills and techniques to identify MMDs and Mined, and would have done extra diligence on such a rare stone, I'm sure.

An ASETscope image would help determine if it was cut to give good light performance, but then again, that may be immaterial if the stone is to be considered an 'investment'.


Please note that only very few stones are 'an investment' that goes up in value - many more are just 'a store of value', whereby you can put X money into a stone and make X money back later, or perhaps X-10% (or whatever).

Given the state of the world economy right now, I would be hesitant to spend the sort of money the stone above must be priced at. If the global economy falls off a cliff, values of *all* goods will drop.
 

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
Thanks for your reply! I appreciate it as I am so nervous to try to get a great looking stone. To have an opportunity for a Type 11a seemed to be rare indeed to me. Frankly, I think she would rather have this than a larger stone, Yes, the report checks out online and I also have been able to get a copy of the cert letter. I guess what I mean by "investment" is won't decline in value. That is a very good point about the global economy now. I will ask the seller about an ASET as the depth to me I thought might be slightly shallow.

Starfacet - The cert with the number blocked out. I can't seem to get the video to post. .
 

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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,980
2.5ct D IF Type IIa will indeed be a rare beast.

If it is GIA-graded (and you have checked the grading report number on the website to make sure it's legit) then I would treat it as Mined - they have enough skills and techniques to identify MMDs and Mined, and would have done extra diligence on such a rare stone, I'm sure.

An ASETscope image would help determine if it was cut to give good light performance, but then again, that may be immaterial if the stone is to be considered an 'investment'.


Please note that only very few stones are 'an investment' that goes up in value - many more are just 'a store of value', whereby you can put X money into a stone and make X money back later, or perhaps X-10% (or whatever).

Given the state of the world economy right now, I would be hesitant to spend the sort of money the stone above must be priced at. If the global economy falls off a cliff, values of *all* goods will drop.
Agreed. I don't think any diamonds (or any luxury good, honestly) holds value. Anything like this would be resold at a loss to the seller, because if you are re-selling it then it means the person buying won't have the peace of mind that comes with a return policy, etc. It isn't like diamonds can be considered little piles of money that you can "cash in". So I would definitely not think of it as an "investment", because it simply is not one.
 

Starfacet

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,979
Last edited:

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
This is so fascinating to me. I never even heard of IIa stones. What makes it such? Their clarity?
Chemical impurities which impact color, actually.

Type I diamonds contain nitrogen, which covers the majority of diamonds. In fact, Type Ia (nitrogen atoms in pairs or groups) and subtype IaB (atoms in aggregates) have the most abundant nitrogen and make up 95% of gem-quality diamonds.

Type II diamonds have insignificant nitrogen. Type IIb have boron present and are extremely rare.

Type IIa - discussed here - make up around 1% of natural diamonds. They have no significant impurities in the crystal lattice. Some enthusiasts consider them to be perfect natural creations. As mentioned, grading laboratories will issue a special report confirming Type IIa. They're also nicknamed Golconda diamonds, after the region in India where they were first found.

The concern voiced by the OP is that laboratory-grown diamonds are also Type IIa... Woops. Interesting story there: Sometimes grading labs - when working to qualify a natural diamond as a Golconda stone - have a difficult time disqualifying it as laboratory-grown.
 

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
Thank you all and @John_Pollard so much for your feedback! I have been looking for a stone for her for years and this one really excites me! The video I have is a .mov file and I don't know how to convert it to post--if anyone has any suggestions. If this weren't Type 11A, I would probably be sticking around a 3 carat and wanted to see what other recommendations you may have.

Yes, @Polabowla, I feel confident in the seller. @Starfacet - I also wondered why the class letter wouldn't be noted on the Cert, but was told the cert letters are separate as you indicate. The letter confirming Type 11a checks out with GIA--@OoohShiny. I am completely fascinated by this as well (another reason to use caution). Do you all have any idea what the worth of a Type 11a is verses a Type 1 stone or what type of mark up there would be?
 
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Starfacet

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,979
Thank you all and @JohnPollard so much for your feedback! I have been looking for a stone for her for years and this one really excites me! The video I have is a .mov file and I don't know how to convert it to post--if anyone has any suggestions. If this weren't Type 11A, I would probably be sticking around a 3 carat and wanted to see what other recommendations you may have.

Yes, @Polabowla, I feel confident in the seller. @Starfacet - I also wondered why the class letter wouldn't be noted on the Cert, but was told the cert letters are separate as you indicate. The letter confirming Type 11a checks out with GIA--@OoohShiny. I am completely fascinated by this as well (another reason to use caution). Do you all have any idea what the worth of a Type 11a is verses a Type 1 stone or what type of mark up there would be?
You could post the video to YouTube or Instagram and share the link here. Have you compared this stone side-by-side with a non-iia stone? The visual difference might not warrant the high price tag. But you have to weigh all factors of course depending on what you want. You can probably find info on what the markup is on a iia stone on the internet.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,200
@Skadiskadi ,
It would be worthwhile to have the diamond verified against the report by a qualified independent expert not connected with the sale or the seller. Even though it is inscribed, crossing all your t's and dotting all your i's on a purchase like this only makes sense, particularly since you are expressing some anxiety. And since the report is several years old you want to verify it is is the same condition as when the report was done.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,200
It is hard to say if the IIa designation entails a premium. It is logical to assume that the extra rarity adds some value, but other factors in the pricing are likely more important.

There are a subset of buyers that would insist on a IIa cert, and one would expect they are willing to pay extra for it. But diamond type is not well known and therefore it does not seem to be a major market mover in the broader picture.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,831
It is very beautiful & the IIa complication does not hurt.


On the side: GIA about diamond types & their colors - www
 
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Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
Thank you all! I live in a small town, do you all think or @Texas Leaguer think my local jeweler would be able to assess it, independently or is specialized equipment involved.? Or, do I need to get someone like Richard Wise (who seems to know a lot about these types of stones as they are mentioned in his book). My mother had a ring made by him and that's why I mention him. However, I think last I heard he is retired? Thank you @AV_ that's a great article!

@Starfacet - the video link is
thanks for the YouTube suggestion!

My only concern was the depth seemed like it might be a little shallow. But, I think the Type IIa and I love it's fire and sparkle so I hope my girlfriend will value it's uniqueness like I do.
 
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Polabowla

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
488
Absolutely stunning! Wow I'm blown away!
Just one thing, if it does cost more because of the 11a, perhaps verify that your girlfriend will really appreciate it (before you spend extra)

If you do buy it please come back & show more pictures/setting/finished ring etc
 

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
@Starfacet I think it is in SD. They are sending me the stone to view one more time and an ASET. Hopefully, when I receive it, I can take a better 4k video and see what you all think. Although, I am not sure how to do the superzoom in this video.
 

Starfacet

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,979
@Starfacet I think it is in SD. They are sending me the stone to view one more time and an ASET. Hopefully, when I receive it, I can take a better 4k video and see what you all think. Although, I am not sure how to do the superzoom in this video.
It certainly doesn't look like a professional video like what you see from the myriad other diamond vendors online. It seems like a pricey diamond such as this one should have an appropriate quality video to accompany it. This isn't even a basic quality diamond video.

So you say they are "sending me the stone to view one more time." Did you previously see it in a showroom, or in your home?
 

Skadiskadi

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
11
@Starfacet I viewed it at the showroom, but the broker is small and I don’t believe they take super glossy videos. IMO, the stone isn’t pricey. In fact, that somewhat contributes to the reason I wanted to ask the forum about it and the premium of Type IIa stones. It seems stones that are Type 1 similar IF, D color, no flor and around 2.5 carat sell at the major online retailers (with the super zoomed videos) for $48k+.
 
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Starfacet

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,979
@Starfacet I viewed it at the showroom, but the broker is small and I don’t believe they take super glossy videos. IMO, the stone isn’t pricey. In fact, that somewhat contributes to the reason I wanted to ask the forum about it and the premium of Type IIa stones. It seems stones that are Type 1 similar IF, D color, no flor and around 2.5 carat sell at the major online retailers (with the super zoomed videos) for $48k+.
I see.
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
3,165
@Starfacet I viewed it at the showroom, but the broker is small and I don’t believe they take super glossy videos. IMO, the stone isn’t pricey. In fact, that somewhat contributes to the reason I wanted to ask the forum about it and the premium of Type IIa stones. It seems stones that are Type 1 similar IF, D color, no flor and around 2.5 carat sell at the major online retailers (with the super zoomed videos) for $48k+.
Can I ask what they’re charging for this stone? Ballpark if you don’t feel comfortable setting the exact price
 
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