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Help on solitaire for ring 1.51ct Table 59% Depth 62.8%

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
Hi all, we recently purchased a 1.51ct solitaire for an ering, the relevant stats are as follows:
- Table 59%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 33.5%
- Pavilion angle 41.8%

Our jeweller didn’t talk to us about Cut at all We were very happy with the other 3Cs, locked the diamond in (we haven’t seen it in real life but expect the stone to arrive in a couple of days). We spent well within budget and could afford more - but “better” options weren’t presented to us and we’ve relied on our jeweller’s recommendation solely.

I regrettably started my in depth research after the fact and stumbled upon this site.

I’m really concerned with the depth of the stone and the overall cut (rates 4.7 on HCA).

Any advice, suggestions will be most appreciated!
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
Hi all, we recently purchased a 1.51ct solitaire for an ering, the relevant stats are as follows:
- Table 59%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 33.5%
- Pavilion angle 41.8%

Our jeweller didn’t talk to us about Cut at all We were very happy with the other 3Cs, locked the diamond in (we haven’t seen it in real life but expect the stone to arrive in a couple of days). We spent well within budget and could afford more - but “better” options weren’t presented to us and we’ve relied on our jeweller’s recommendation solely.

I regrettably started my in depth research after the fact and stumbled upon this site.

I’m really concerned with the depth of the stone and the overall cut (rates 4.7 on HCA).

Any advice, suggestions will be most appreciated!

I forgot to mention, we relied on GIA’s triple excellent rating. Which I now see from this site really doesn’t mean much.
 

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
247
Hi all, we recently purchased a 1.51ct solitaire for an ering, the relevant stats are as follows:
- Table 59%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 33.5%
- Pavilion angle 41.8%

Our jeweller didn’t talk to us about Cut at all We were very happy with the other 3Cs, locked the diamond in (we haven’t seen it in real life but expect the stone to arrive in a couple of days). We spent well within budget and could afford more - but “better” options weren’t presented to us and we’ve relied on our jeweller’s recommendation solely.

I regrettably started my in depth research after the fact and stumbled upon this site.

I’m really concerned with the depth of the stone and the overall cut (rates 4.7 on HCA).

Any advice, suggestions will be most appreciated!

When you say “locked in” how locked in are you? Can you start over?
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
When you say “locked in” how locked in are you? Can you start over?

We’ve paid for it in full. I did ask the jeweller if we didn’t like it when we see it what our options are - she responded saying “you will like it”. So it’s all a bit unclear to me.

It’s our first diamond purchase and it has sentimental value so I’m just unsure how to approach. If the stone is ok and there’s no way for me to restart the process, not ideal but I guess I’ll have to go with it.

If the stone is absolutely No, I might try harder for the jeweller to get us a different stone. It’s a very disappointing experience with her so far - she even got our ring design completely wrong!
 

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
247
We’ve paid for it in full. I did ask the jeweller if we didn’t like it when we see it what our options are - she responded saying “you will like it”. So it’s all a bit unclear to me.

It’s our first diamond purchase and it has sentimental value so I’m just unsure how to approach. If the stone is ok and there’s no way for me to restart the process, not ideal but I guess I’ll have to go with it.

If the stone is absolutely No, I might try harder for the jeweller to get us a different stone. It’s a very disappointing experience with her so far - she even got our ring design completely wrong!

I would try to get a refund especially after ready the last sentence. The diamond may look fine to the untrained eye and in a jewelry store but why settle when there are so many that are perfect or near perfect. This diamond was cut deep just so that the cutter would hit the 1.5ct mark so it will look smaller than a well cut 1.5ct.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,515
First off, I am sorry for your overall experience and wish you had found this site sooner. While I don't think all is quite lost, I do agree you have some tricky negotiations and undesired conversations that lie ahead of you.

The pity here is GIA's triple X rating. It's just so damn vast & varied. It gives buyers a false sense of security when purchasing but it doesn't always deliver. Sure, there are awesome triple X stones, but that mere designation alone doesn't guarantee awesome.

Using the proportions from the cert and cross referencing with the AGS proportions charts, it looks like this stone would likely be rated "very good" with AGS. In today's world, we are hoping for an ideal rating to maximize light performance.

Given your lackluster experience to date, I would likely reject this stone and prefer to start over with a jeweler that shared my passion & enthusiasm and could deliver an ideal (or at least near ideal) stone.

By chance, what are your budget constraints? And what is your preference for color, clarity & carat weight? Perhaps we can toss a few alternates out to either firm up what a great deal you have in front of you, or how you can score a better stone.


1617750716003.png
 
Last edited:

Kaycee2018

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
871
Agree w/ @sledge here (and welcome back, BTW). You can do better in terms of cut quality, even within GIA’s Excellent cut grade (just takes some doing in terms of research) and certainly by going with an AGS 000 or branded super ideal. Have the conversation with your jeweler about your options.
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,262
I did ask the jeweller if we didn’t like it when we see it what our options are - she responded saying “you will like it”.

So if you don't like it, tell her you don't and remind her that she said that you will. then ask her to bring in other stones for you to look at. Without knowing your budget and other requirements on color, clarity, etc it's hard to give much more advice as we don't know what to look for and whether your expectations are realistic.
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
First off, I am sorry for your overall experience and wish you had found this site sooner. While I don't think all is quite lost, I do agree you have some tricky negotiations and undesired conversations that lie ahead of you.

The pity here is GIA's triple X rating. It's just so damn vast & varied. It gives buyers a false sense of security when purchasing but it doesn't always deliver. Sure, there are awesome triple X stones, but that mere designation alone doesn't guarantee awesome.

Using the proportions from the cert and cross referencing with the AGS proportions charts, it looks like this stone would likely be rated "very good" with AGS. In today's world, we are hoping for an ideal rating to maximize light performance.

Given your lackluster experience to date, I would likely reject this stone and prefer to start over with a jeweler that shared my passion & enthusiasm and could deliver an ideal (or at least near ideal) stone.

By chance, what are your budget constraints? And what is your preference for color, clarity & carat weight? Perhaps we can toss a few alternates out to either firm up what a great deal you have in front of you, or how you can score a better stone.


1617750716003.png

Thanks all, very helpful comments. My fiancé to be is pretty decided on colourless (D-F) and VS1 or above (we are both novices so prefer to stay in the safe zone). We are looking for something around the 1.5ct mark. I would say budget of c.$20k.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,880
Thanks all, very helpful comments. My fiancé to be is pretty decided on colourless (D-F) and VS1 or above (we are both novices so prefer to stay in the safe zone). We are looking for something around the 1.5ct mark. I would say budget of c.$20k.

I would strongly advise starting with a new vendor, especially since this one got your ring design wrong.
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
Spoke to the jeweller and it looks like there’s no refund. She said she can sell it for us but there’s no guarantee how long that will take. This is pretty upsetting. I would say this is a lesson for next time but how often am I going to buy new diamonds!
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
497
Spoke to the jeweller and it looks like there’s no refund. She said she can sell it for us but there’s no guarantee how long that will take. This is pretty upsetting. I would say this is a lesson for next time but how often am I going to buy new diamonds!

I'm sorry you are going through this unpleasant experience when it should be very exciting for a significant jewelry purchase.

I would go back to your jeweler and ask her to give you alternative diamonds to look at that are cut alot better.

The fact that she gave you a false promise that " you will like the diamond" tells me she doesn't care what she sells or her reputation.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,880
Spoke to the jeweller and it looks like there’s no refund. She said she can sell it for us but there’s no guarantee how long that will take. This is pretty upsetting. I would say this is a lesson for next time but how often am I going to buy new diamonds!

I am so sorry :( what anightmare. The jeweler wont even allow you to exchange the stone??
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,952
When you see it, tell her it lacks fire and brilliance lol... sound informed. (Unless you just love it under every lighting condition you can think of)...

Tell her you want the diamond to fit these parameters:

Depth 60.5-62.1

Table 54-57

Pavilion 40.6 40.8

Crown 34 34.5
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,952
To be clear, are you talking about a round diamond or a cushion (your name?)
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,952
Spoke to the jeweller and it looks like there’s no refund. She said she can sell it for us but there’s no guarantee how long that will take. This is pretty upsetting. I would say this is a lesson for next time but how often am I going to buy new diamonds!

I would tell her you want it in writing so your lawyer can examine the policy.
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
First off, I am sorry for your overall experience and wish you had found this site sooner. While I don't think all is quite lost, I do agree you have some tricky negotiations and undesired conversations that lie ahead of you.

The pity here is GIA's triple X rating. It's just so damn vast & varied. It gives buyers a false sense of security when purchasing but it doesn't always deliver. Sure, there are awesome triple X stones, but that mere designation alone doesn't guarantee awesome.

Using the proportions from the cert and cross referencing with the AGS proportions charts, it looks like this stone would likely be rated "very good" with AGS. In today's world, we are hoping for an ideal rating to maximize light performance.

Given your lackluster experience to date, I would likely reject this stone and prefer to start over with a jeweler that shared my passion & enthusiasm and could deliver an ideal (or at least near ideal) stone.

By chance, what are your budget constraints? And what is your preference for color, clarity & carat weight? Perhaps we can toss a few alternates out to either firm up what a great deal you have in front of you, or how you can score a better stone.


1617750716003.png

Hi Sledge, thanks very much for sharing this. I just double checked that the pavilion angle is in fact 41.6 rather than .8 which I misread. Not sure if that changes anything?
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,262
Spoke to the jeweller and it looks like there’s no refund. She said she can sell it for us but there’s no guarantee how long that will take. This is pretty upsetting. I would say this is a lesson for next time but how often am I going to buy new diamonds!

Remind her that she said YOU WILL LIKE IT. And to you, that sounded like a guarantee that you would and an expectation that if you didn't, she would at a minimum find you another stone that you liked, or refund your money.

Hopefully, when you see the stone, you will like it and be happy with it. Please keep us posted.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,080
What are her website return policies? What’s written on your receipt? Do you have any paperwork with any fine print?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,080
It is completely unreasonable for a vendor to call a stone in and expect that one choice to be what the buyer takes home, no exceptions, unless the lack of any escape is explicitly discussed prior to stone order.

OP, your frustration is not misplaced. Whether or not this jeweller is behaving illegally, she is DEFINITELY running her business unethically.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,542
Check your state's requied return policies. Some states have a "cooling off" period where the seller must allow you to return
the item.

May I ask what state you are in?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,880
It is completely unreasonable for a vendor to call a stone in and expect that one choice to be what the buyer takes home, no exceptions, unless the lack of any escape is explicitly discussed prior to stone order.

OP, your frustration is not misplaced. Whether or not this jeweller is behaving illegally, she is DEFINITELY running her business unethically.

All of this 100%!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,515
Hi Sledge, thanks very much for sharing this. I just double checked that the pavilion angle is in fact 41.6 rather than .8 which I misread. Not sure if that changes anything?

You're welcome.

Using the other chart, you can see if you move up the intersection of the 33.5 crown & 41.6 pavilion that the expected grade would improve. That is because the pavilion angle is becoming more complimentary to the crown angle. While improving, I would still be suspect of quality.

The thing not being considered is the fact each round diamond has 8 actual crown and 8 actual pavilion angle values. GIA takes those 8 actual values, averages them and then rounds to the nearest 0.5 degrees. They do a similar for pavilion, except to the nearest 0.2 degrees.

As a result, a few things occur. First, because of the rounding & averaging it can push perceived ratings across the line into favorable or unfavorable conditions. Second, it means that maybe 6 of the 8 actuals work but 2 are bunk. If you are lucky enough to get a detailed SARIN report, you can make a more reasonable assessment. However, those 2 bunk areas will likely show up in an ASET.

This brings me to the conclusion that because the data is a "loose interpretation" things like an advanced ASET image will allow you see light performance of said stone. H&A images will help you confirm optical symmetry.

Your sales person is playing on the fact that she can make your eyes like the diamond she is bringing in. Make no mistake, jewelers are smart. They spend loads on lighting so that even duds look amazing in their showrooms. However, get them in real world lighting environments and it's not always the same glamorous story. Also, she isn't totally stupid. She knows most her buyers have very limited experience defining good or bad diamonds. I'm not knocking her or any jeweler, but if I show you 10 crap stones then even most novice eyes can probably pick the best of the 10. The problem is unless they are comparing the stone against a truly ideal cut stone then your eyes and experience is severely limited and while you may have picked the best of the 10, you may still have picked a bad stone. In short, the deck can easily be stacked in her favor to sell you the most gorgeous diamond you've ever seen.

 

Treasurehunter84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Messages
18
Hi all, we recently purchased a 1.51ct solitaire for an ering, the relevant stats are as follows:
- Table 59%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 33.5%
- Pavilion angle 41.8%

Our jeweller didn’t talk to us about Cut at all We were very happy with the other 3Cs, locked the diamond in (we haven’t seen it in real life but expect the stone to arrive in a couple of days). We spent well within budget and could afford more - but “better” options weren’t presented to us and we’ve relied on our jeweller’s recommendation solely.

I regrettably started my in depth research after the fact and stumbled upon this site.

I’m really concerned with the depth of the stone and the overall cut (rates 4.7 on HCA).

Any advice, suggestions will be most appreciated!

Hello

I cant help but feel for you - stumbling upon this site makes you question every jewellery decision you have ever made, probably worse when it is a diamond where there is so many things to consider that the mind boggles!
I do agree that your jeweller shouldn‘t have made you pay upfront with a no-refund policy, a little unfair when you have no comparison to go on.
However! I do not think you should discount the diamond you have paid for - ultimately every diamond is graded to a set of parameters, and some people prefer a higher crown, some people prefer a larger ‘spread’ to get more for their money, but it is up to you, the wearer, to decide if you like it when you see it in person! No one is looking at a GIA report when they look at your ring. They just see a nice diamond, so don’t have any regrets unless its really awful (it wont be!)
Good luck and I hope that when you see it in person you will be thrilled with it.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,975
Hi all, we recently purchased a 1.51ct solitaire for an ering, the relevant stats are as follows:
- Table 59%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 33.5%
- Pavilion angle 41.8%


I’m really concerned with the depth of the stone and the overall cut (rates 4.7 on HCA).
This diamond was cut to hit the magic carat of 1.5ct.
 

cushionhiddenhalo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
7
Hello

I cant help but feel for you - stumbling upon this site makes you question every jewellery decision you have ever made, probably worse when it is a diamond where there is so many things to consider that the mind boggles!
I do agree that your jeweller shouldn‘t have made you pay upfront with a no-refund policy, a little unfair when you have no comparison to go on.
However! I do not think you should discount the diamond you have paid for - ultimately every diamond is graded to a set of parameters, and some people prefer a higher crown, some people prefer a larger ‘spread’ to get more for their money, but it is up to you, the wearer, to decide if you like it when you see it in person! No one is looking at a GIA report when they look at your ring. They just see a nice diamond, so don’t have any regrets unless its really awful (it wont be!)
Good luck and I hope that when you see it in person you will be thrilled with it.

Thanks @Treasurehunter84. My boyfriend was “smitten” when we saw the diamond in person - he was like a child incredibly proud he made a beautiful purchase we decided to keep the diamond as like you said it’s not awful at all! We’ve gone ahead to get it set in a six pronged solitaire - I won’t get to see it again until he proposes officially, I’m excited! Thanks all for your input!
 

Treasurehunter84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Messages
18
Thanks @Treasurehunter84. My boyfriend was “smitten” when we saw the diamond in person - he was like a child incredibly proud he made a beautiful purchase we decided to keep the diamond as like you said it’s not awful at all! We’ve gone ahead to get it set in a six pronged solitaire - I won’t get to see it again until he proposes officially, I’m excited! Thanks all for your input!

Amazing news and congratulations- I knew it would be fine, you would only need to be worried if you had unwittingly purchased a cut grade of Fair/Poor which of course you didn’t :mrgreen2:
Good luck to you both and send us a photo of it once you are wearing it!
 
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