Help on purchasing a 2c+ diamond --

[nosoup4u]

This forum has an incredible amount of information I''ve been perusing and had a few clarifying questions. I am looking to spend around $15-18K for a 2.1-2.3 carat diamond, if that is possible. I would like an ideal cut, at least I color or better, and VS2 or better (perhaps an SI1).

I went to Jared''s today to look at their diamonds and they had a 2.26, I, SI1, with vg/vg cut. They had AGS and GIA certified diamonds. They wanted $19.8K for the diamond. I went over to Blue Nile and they also had ideal cut AGS certified and GIA certified diamonds that were basically within $1K price of each other (around 50 diamonds).

Does the whole ''upgrading'' and lifetime warranty on the diamond make it worth the extra amount of money to be paid to a B&M store? Ideally, I would like to select a diamond that is closest to a signature ideal cut. However, I cannot find any information on what those specifications should be. Reading these certifications almost requires a degree to decipher all of the information.

Plus, the 2.10 Leo Diamond they had vs. the 1.99 Leo diamond was about $1500 in price -- but, the diameter was 8.12 vs. 8.07. The 2.26 non-Leo diamond was 8.23x8.30. I''ve seen some 2.15 on Blue Nile that are 8.35 or even higher. So, regarding the dimensions, is their a better dimension than others?

Are there any other online sources that I should seek out and evaluate their diamonds? If there are any recommendations for stores in Northern VA (D.C. area), would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Search on Jared''s and you''ll find a lot of um, complaints, to put it mildly. The question comes up often and mostly, people think the PS vendors offer better value and much better customer service.

Diameters: If you look up a diamond size chart, you''ll find an "ideal" or average diameter (and proportions) for a well-cut RB of a given weight. But performance is all about interaction of the table size, the various angles, symmetry, polish, color, etc.

Also search in Rocky Talky for the discussions on FIC, TIC and BIC. Also look up Garry H''s comments on shallow or "head shadow" diamonds. There are tradeoffs between spread and fire. More spread usually tends toward bigger table 7 less fire. More brilliance = more light return which can make a diamond look larger but less scintillating. Of course, there is an exception to almost every rule of thumb.

Once you decide what "personality" of diamond you want or you post a few examples of stones you think you''d like, maybe more people will chime in.

 

[Haven]

I am by no means an expert on any of this, but I love Seinfeld so I had to click on your topic.

Anyway, do a search for "Jared''s" and you''ll get a really good idea of the general opinion about that chain here on PS.

As for online diamond vendors, I''ve found that the following are highly regarded by the folks here at PS:

goodoldgold.com
engagementringsdirect.com
whiteflash.com

I know I''m missing a few, but this will give you a good start.

As for the upgrade policy, some of the online vendors have the same policy (I believe Whiteflash is one of them.) You should be able to find this info on their websites, as well. From everything I''ve read (and the research I''ve done) the online vendors offer extremely competitive prices for diamonds, especially when compared to most chain B&M stores. However, we ended up going with our extremely reputable local jeweler, which is a family-owned business, so you can find quality B&Ms if you look hard enough.

Concerning ideal cut diamonds--I''m assuming you''re talking about a round brilliant, yes? If so, click on the "knowledge" tab at the top of the PS page, and then scroll down to "advanced tutorial". You''ll find a plethora information there. Also, if you know a diamond''s proportions you can click on "tools" and then go to "cut adviser" to get info about whether or not it is an ideal cut diamond.

I''m sure a real expert will chime in and either yay or nay the info I just gave you, so stay tuned, and good luck with your search!

(Oh, and by the way--you MUST post hand shots of this ring when you get it in return for all of the great advice you are about to get from these amazing PSers!)

 

[surfgirl]

Ahhh, Seinfeld...Love your screen name!

Okay:

1. NEVER go back to Jareds ever again!

2. Bigger dimensions can mean poorly cut which can mean crappy stone. Dont go by the dimensions...

3. Read up on the 4Cs tutorials here.

4. Have your GF scroll through the entire Show Me The Ring forum, 1st thread with about 100 pages of peoples erings. She needs to narrow down which shape she likes best and which settings. Then, take her window shopping so she can see what her choices look like on her, because sometimes we love an Emerald cut but it just doesn''t look that great on our actual hand (and no, I''m not bitter about that...).

5. Once you know for sure, which shape/setting she loves, then you can come back and get help picking something out...

Good luck and enjoy the shopping process!

 

[Jenn5504]

Being an unfortunate ex-Jared customer, PLEASE, take the advice here and do not go back there.......There has also been some info about the "Leo" cut around here, read up on that........I could go on and on about 5+ years worth of bad experiences with them but I''ll spare you.......suffice to say I will never buy there again. I also wouldn''t put too much stock in the "Signature Ideal" jargon. I purchased a signature ideal pendant from Blue Nile and come to find out it''s not a great cut after all. Scored like a 3.6 on the HCA! Rediculious! Not to mention, Blue Nile''s definition of "eye clean" would not be acceptable to most. The inclusions in my Signature Ideal Cut GIA .59ct I SI1 is worse than my 1.59ct J SI2 AGS000 from Whiteflash. Of coarse any SI range stone is going to have the potential of not being eye clean. That''s not my problem. My problem is they assured me it WAS eye clean..........just not very honest info from them in my experience. Then Whiteflash was overboard nit-picky for me and I couldn''t be happier with the stone they helped me get (well...........bigger would always be nice, ha ha!). You are going to be so glad you opened yourself up to the vast knowledge on this board----I can''t begin to shake a stick at the knowledge most of the PS''ers have. Take the free advice and you''ll be a happy man in the end.

Oh, don''t forget, most of these PS trusted vendors DO offer the upgrade policy.

 

[hedarud]

Here is a nice Si1 H color 2.1 ct Rb diamond with ex cut sym polish for your budget, scores 1.4 on the HCA, should be a nice stone if it is eye clean....call and ask for barbara and ask if it is eye clean, shell be honest. UD will have the diamond brought in house and inspected to make sure youll be happy with it, I had an excellent experience with them

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?item_id=AA474337&search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&network_id=0cf05810a0f83094f6e9972ef21cdd34#

 

[Jenn5504]

Date: 8/23/2007 10:07:47 PM
Author: hedarud
Here is a nice Si1 H color 2.1 ct Rb diamond with ex cut sym polish for your budget, scores 1.4 on the HCA, should be a nice stone if it is eye clean....call and ask for barbara and ask if it is eye clean, shell be honest. UD will have the diamond brought in house and inspected to make sure youll be happy with it, I had an excellent experience with them

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?item_id=AA474337&search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&network_id=0cf05810a0f83094f6e9972ef21cdd34#

That does look like a great rock! H SI1 is fabulous, too (IMO....)

 

[cadmia]

Nosoup - Try White & Ivory in Leesburg, VA. It''s a small shop, but they are very competitive in diamond prices - Even with the Blue Niles of the world.

 

[Gypsy]

James Allen is in Maryland. I highly recommend getting an appointment with them.

Also Gary Dutton at NiceIce is right in DC Metro.


If it were me, AFTER I read the diamond tutorials on here and on Goodoldgold''s website, I would give both those vendors a call and start with the one I felt most comfortable with... ie. clicked with.

 

[Ellen]

If that stone doesn''t work out, here''s a couple, but you''d need to up your budget a tad...

Neither may be eyeclean but doesn''t hurt to ask..


http://204.17.89.15/diamond/3058/



http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-67465.htm#

 

[nosoup4u]

Thank you everyone for all of your great advice. I really appreciate it. I went back to Jared's (did not see your responses until tonight) and realized a few things:

a) I did not like their IGI certification and confirmed that it is not preferable tonight after doing more research on pricescope.
b) their LEO diamond did not appear that well -- even with the 8 additional facets; and
c) I 'did' like their 2.000 carat PEERLESS diamond that they call a super-ideal. It is an AGS000 certified diamond with a GemEx report they provide. It looked very clean and when I looked at it -- it showed a good H&A configuration.

That said, the 1.5 carat diamond was $14K. The 2.0 carat diamond was

$27.1K. The lady was telling me about the upgrade policy (but in reality, I doubt I would be upgrading with a 2 carat ring). The one thing that caught my attention in her sales pitch is that if the diamond gets cracked, damaged, etc., then it is covered. As you guys suggested, I needed to up my price.

I used the pricescope above -- and wondered if it is possible to stay around $20-21K since it appears I need to up my price range a bit. I definitely do not want to spend $27K -- but, it did outshine every other diamond in the Jared store.

Blue Nile has a signature ideal cut 2.39 that is AGS000 but SI1. I know some have claimed BN tells people that there is no inclusions visible -- but, never really look. That rock is $21K. So, I am upping my price range to $21K. I liked the fact that the BN signature lines have depths of less than 61% (60.1-60.9). However, I also clicked on the VG/EX for BN and saw that there were other ones that have AGS000 certifications as well; but, I am assuming the table and depth do not fall within their parameters.

I looked at whiteflash, GOG, and BN so far. It appears many people have had good luck with those vendors. I am just a little worried about what happens if the diamond gets chipped or damaged? I asked Jared's if they mounted it, what happens if a prong broke -- they said that the diamond is not covered. They also said if the diamond is damaged when mounting, it is not covered by them. That kind of freaks me out. I know tiffany's also will not set a diamond not purchased from them.

How have you guys dealt with situations like that? I was going to purchase the loose diamond; but, allow my soon-to-be fiance choose the ring. I would rather her be 100% satisfied with everything. I know she'll love the diamond; but, I think the ring is a bit more personal.

My parameters appear to be now:

price - $18-22K
color - G-I (not sure if I should go with H or if I is okay)
clarity - VS1-SI
carat - 2.1-2.4 (that appears to be reasonable within my price range)
depth - less than 61%
table - 55-57%
AGS000 certified - seems to be more reliable than GIA (only b/c AGS000 gives more infromation)

With regard to crown angle and pavilion angle -- is that information given on the AGS report?

Also, why is there some AGS reports (like on BN) that only show AGS0 -- but, then, there is the other AGS reports that show much more and I assume are called AGS000?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

if you buy from one of the vendors such as JA or WF you shoudl be able to send the diamond and the ring back to them after you decide and have them set it, they will probably do it for you, though its possible they will charge a fee I suspect they will waive it though for a purchase of this size, but you will ahve to ask them. Just talk to them about it before you make your purchase, as there certainly isnt enough risk for it to include them not making a sale over.

As far as chipping etc, you should be able to get insurance yes? and you woudl want insurance anyway in the event that you lost your ring which means that Jareds insurance policy is meaningless.

Blue nile does many drop shippinps in order to keep prices a bit lower. That means that if they tell you it is eyeclean what happened was: You asked them. They called the supplier. The supplier looked at it. He told Blue nile what he saw. Blue Nile told you. So the questions you will have a very hard time getting answered are, who exactly looked at it, what were his qualifications, how picky was he and exactly how did he define eye cleanliness, and can you put as much faith in what he said as you would own of the vendors.

I say go for WF, GOG, JA, UD, ED and talk to them before hand about your goals for the setting. If any of them seem put off then ask to speak to someone else, maybe the owner or maybe the in-house gemologist, or even one of the managers of the actual benchwork. If someone else dissapoints you I think one of those people with more authority will be sure to make sure that a matter such as getting yoru diamond mounted in a relatively risk-free setting does not cost them a 2ct diamond sale.

(and I say risk free meaning traditional 4/6 prongs, bezel set, or numerous others (I imagine that a few must be somewhat more risky than others, maybe tension settings for ex? but even then I think if you talk with them they will certainly work out a way for you to send the setting to them and get it done. My first pick would be WF, then after that JA but only becaue I have experience with them, but if there is a vendor near you (espeically GOG), then that would of course be your best first choice.


Also, one thing you want to remember with reports. The cut grades really started being issues in about 2005. Witha diamond of this size you will probably come across alot of diamonds graded before that began happening. You can generally call and find out what the angles are from AGS or GIA, though you might not be able to.

Also, hunting for an AGS0. First, AGS000 is just a sales pitch. In order for the diamond to be AGS0 it has to be by definition an AGS000. If it was an AGS 0 0 1, it would be and AGS1. If you really want to know more details follow this link:

New AGS DQD formatting, read it all though, at leat until you get to my posts as at that point there is nothign new to learn, there were several changes to presentation. And since this link has gotten so long it doesnt even look like one, here is the link again.

LINK

One of the most valuable pieces of data on the AGS report, in my opinion is where light performance =0. Whatever else you are looking for, aiming for AGS0 does make knowing the diamond you found is giong to be Beautiful MUCH MUCH easier. But it also limits your choices. If you use some knowledge you can evaluate the data given on the GIA report to determine if it falls within AGS0 parameters, then a few other tests like IS image can be used to verify performance, especially when choosign a couple of in-house diamond and having someone knowledgable look at them, or at GOG where helium reports and other data can be used to further verify the numbers and further analyze the cut.

AGS0 is very nice, and certainly a noteworthy and desirable grade to have, and certainly makes shopping online much more risk-free, but at the same time with some knowledge and other information other certificates can be opened up to you that will allow you to widen your search a bit and work on keeping the price down. Hopefully you can get an actual AGS0 though

 

[Regular Guy]

No Soup,

Even though I'm in the DC area...I'd recommend a drive over to GOG to see this one (at $21,308 with Pricescope/wire discount). Also, to get some insight. Hopefully you can make the time. Research here on how Jonathan is well respected. Make an appointment.

Otherwise, Gypsy is wisely also mentioning JA, but she's got to stop repeating now Nice Ice with Dutton being in DC. They're two operations, and neither is in DC, though Icemine used to be here (as the Infinity site shows).

See below my signature for other shopping ideas, if you like.

Hope you'll have fun,

 

[hedarud]

You should consider the diamond i found above, also, just get insurance on your jewlery once you get it completed and you should be Ok.

 

[Regular Guy]

My friend Hedarud motivated me to look beyond the "search by cut" db, where I found the previous one. Narrowing for just AGS from the big db....and it's not unreasonable to restrict a search to just AGS, I don't think...I found two others you might consider, but they're not local. Union Diamond, when they do offer options, seem to not be the low guy on the block, don't obviously offer the same advantages as some others (do they?) like trade up and such, and don't write here like ever, so their expertise is semi-unknown, but I'm glad Hedarud got the diamond he wanted from them. Anyway, from Abazias, who I like to kid, they do uniquely seem to offer this one, a 2.1 H VS2 at $18,8. I can't read the cert too well, though, so you may not be getting AGS0 light performance unless you can read it better than me, or they can spy it better. Also, from BN...also big enough, and like both Union and Abazias, mostly offering "virtual," not in house diamonds...you have this 2.11 H VS2 for $21,7...and so either one gets you a better color & clarity than the one I posted above...and this may be worth your while.

Options...have either sent to a local appraiser for examination with you, on the jeweler's dime, to get some insight. Locally, many (as I did) use Martin Fuller in VA (not cheap, not great, but maybe the best around?). More ideally...if you can determine the Abazias is not all that, consider buying the BN one, driving it over to GOG, and comparing it to what's in his shop. If Jonathan can't do better, BN's got a nice option.

Just more grist for the mill.

BTW, I hope Hedarud will take no offence. He & I talked a lot during his search, and he's very methodical. Maybe he'll share why he likes Union over others, if he does have that preference.

Regards,

Edited to add...going direct to the BN site...I see they do have a pretty robust selection there, including the one I found, and you found (though I might prefer to stay below I)...and more. If you decide to include them...it's possible they can help you narrow it down. I don't know that the more arbitrary constraints you've set for either depth or table are that meaningful, but they are conservative, and can help to narrow. An advantage of their signature selection, ostensibly, though, is that they're in house. But, I think they just have that one big I that's like that.

& PS...for example...check out this F you might otherwise have overlooked. That could be on a short list. Enjoy!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

The one you listed from Abazius above has light performance 1 and finish 1 for a total cut grade of 2

 

[hedarud]

Date: 8/27/2007 2:07:59 AM
Author: Regular Guy
My friend Hedarud motivated me to look beyond the ''search by cut'' db, where I found the previous one. Narrowing for just AGS from the big db....and it''s not unreasonable to restrict a search to just AGS, I don''t think...I found two others you might consider, but they''re not local. Union Diamond, when they do offer options, seem to not be the low guy on the block, don''t obviously offer the same advantages as some others (do they?) like trade up and such, and don''t write here like ever, so their expertise is semi-unknown, but I''m glad Hedarud got the diamond he wanted from them. Anyway, from Abazias, who I like to kid, they do uniquely seem to offer this one, a 2.1 H VS2 at $18,8. I can''t read the cert too well, though, so you may not be getting AGS0 light performance unless you can read it better than me, or they can spy it better. Also, from BN...also big enough, and like both Union and Abazias, mostly offering ''virtual,'' not in house diamonds...you have this 2.11 H VS2 for $21,7...and so either one gets you a better color & clarity than the one I posted above...and this may be worth your while.

Options...have either sent to a local appraiser for examination with you, on the jeweler''s dime, to get some insight. Locally, many (as I did) use Martin Fuller in VA (not cheap, not great, but maybe the best around?). More ideally...if you can determine the Abazias is not all that, consider buying the BN one, driving it over to GOG, and comparing it to what''s in his shop. If Jonathan can''t do better, BN''s got a nice option.

Just more grist for the mill.

BTW, I hope Hedarud will take no offence. He & I talked a lot during his search, and he''s very methodical. Maybe he''ll share why he likes Union over others, if he does have that preference.

Regards,

Edited to add...going direct to the BN site...I see they do have a pretty robust selection there, including the one I found, and you found (though I might prefer to stay below I)...and more. If you decide to include them...it''s possible they can help you narrow it down. I don''t know that the more arbitrary constraints you''ve set for either depth or table are that meaningful, but they are conservative, and can help to narrow. An advantage of their signature selection, ostensibly, though, is that they''re in house. But, I think they just have that one big I that''s like that.

& PS...for example...check out this F you might otherwise have overlooked. That could be on a short list. Enjoy!

The trade up option many offer, IMO is not so useful when considering a once in a long time purchase. Later on, i think something like this can be sold for more $ than initial purchase price, although it may be hard. Say I had a stone that is 18k today but i bought for 12k 7yrs ago, would i be able to list on ebay for 12k and sell it fast ??? maybe, who knows.. UD was a couple of hundred more than others but were very professional and honest. They actually saved me in the whole purchase as they beat the price of the setting i had chosen at BN by 500 bucks. In the end, so long as you find something that makes you happy, that is all that matters. RG I need to thank you for all your help too, the diamond you helped confirm is AAmazing.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 8/27/2007 1:31:06 AM
Author: Regular Guy

Otherwise, Gypsy is wisely also mentioning JA, but she''s got to stop repeating now Nice Ice with Dutton being in DC. They''re two operations, and neither is in DC, though Icemine used to be here (as the Infinity site shows).

Indeed, Ira, combining Dutton''s with NiceIce and DC is a total mix-up.

The mentioning of NiceIce is probably a confusion with Icemine, owned and operated by Bill Scherlag, who posts here as CapitolBill. In the begiining of this year, Bill has moved to New York City, because of family-reasons, and I trust that he will increase his activity very soon now?

At the same time, Bill probably got mixed up with Gary Dutton, who is also a trusted Infinity-dealer.

Just straightening out some confusion.

Live long,

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Hi NoSoup4U,

Perhaps an insurance agent can weigh in, but I believe the most common causes of filings for loss with e-rings are:

1. Lost/misplaced ring
2. Stolen ring
3. Damage causing main stone to fall out and get lost

Damage to a stone remaining in its setting falls WAY down further on the list. Since the Jared''s policy is so limited-- NONE of the main causes of claims are covered-- you''ll need a real insurance policy anyhow. Once you have a real insurance policy, the Jared''s offer becomes moot.

Insurance is easy enough. Many people add them to their homeowner policies (though be sure to do your due diligence on your individual company, for the policies through State Farm, for instance, have a few shortcomings), quite a few people switch their insurance policies to Chubb (best terms in the biz for jewelry, IMO), and the lions'' share of those who do not have large insurance dealings (younger renters, for instance) often get ring insurance from Jewelers Mutual (decent terms and prices, very easy to sign up for).

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 8/27/2007 1:31:06 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Otherwise, Gypsy is wisely also mentioning JA, but she's got to stop repeating now Nice Ice with Dutton being in DC. They're two operations, and neither is in DC, though Icemine used to be here (as the Infinity site shows).

First time I'm getting this memo. Correction duly noted. Thanks.

Icemine was in DC... that was CapitolBill. But is now in NY. Okay.

Dutton. Infinity Dealer. But NOT in DC. Got that too. Where is Dutton? lol.

Paul am in awe that you were able to follow my convoluted train of thought.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 8/27/2007 5:31:40 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 8/27/2007 1:31:06 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Otherwise, Gypsy is wisely also mentioning JA, but she''s got to stop repeating now Nice Ice with Dutton being in DC. They''re two operations, and neither is in DC, though Icemine used to be here (as the Infinity site shows).

First time I''m getting this memo. Correction duly noted. Thanks.

Icemine was in DC... that was CapitolBill. But is now in NY. Okay.

Dutton. Infinity Dealer. But NOT in DC. Got that too. Where is Dutton? lol.

Paul am in awe that you were able to follow my convoluted train of thought.

Gypsy,

Not to rub it in (I read only a small percentage of these threads myself), but see the last post here for info on Dutton.

 

[Gypsy]

LOL. Maybe a little tiny rub in? I never went back to that post to follow up, so I never saw that. Interesting to see that I''ve been irritating you across a number of threads. LOL. Sorry Ira.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 8/28/2007 12:34:00 AM
Author: Gypsy
LOL. Maybe a little tiny rub in? I never went back to that post to follow up, so I never saw that. Interesting to see that I''ve been irritating you across a number of threads. LOL. Sorry Ira.

Nah...

Now that''s irritation.

 

[Gypsy]

Ew.

Thanks. LOL. I think.