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Help! No Idea what I''m doing // Cushion Cut

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latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
Hey all, Ive been reading this forum for weeks and I''m still not exactly sure what to look for in a diamond. I plan on proposing in the next few weeks and my girlfriend wants a cushion cut, I found these on BlueNile and i have no idea if they are a good deal or not. I have a friend who has used BlueNile and it was a great experience for him but I dont know if they are better than other internet retailers.


Option 1
1.51-Carat Cushion-Cut Diamond
This Very Good-cut, H-color, and VVS2-clarity diamond comes accompanied by a diamond grading report from the GIA.
Price: $9,785
Bank wire price: $9,639
Carat weight: 1.51
Cut: Very Good
Color: H
Clarity: VVS2
Depth %: 68.3%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to very thick, faceted
Culet: Slightly large
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 7.23 x 6.46 x 4.41 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.12

Option #2
1.63-Carat Cushion-Cut Diamond
This Very Good-cut, H-color, and VVS2-clarity diamond comes accompanied by a diamond grading report from the GIA.
Price: $9,797
Bank wire price: $9,651
Carat weight: 1.63
Cut: Very Good
Color: H
Clarity: VVS2
Depth %: 68.9%
Table %: 58%
Symmetry: Good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Very thick to extremely thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.11 x 6.33 x 4.36 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.12
The setting...
Platinum Setting with Graduated Pavé-Set Diamonds (1/5 ct. tw.)
Price: $1200
Metal: 950 platinum
Width: 3.5mm
Prong metal: Platinum
Number of round diamonds: 10
Minimum carat total
weight (ct. tw.): 0.17
Average color: H
Average clarity: SI1
Setting type: Pavé setting
Again, thanks in advance for the help


 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Welcome to PS


BN are a good vendor, there are also vendors on the vendor's list at the top of the page under Resources, who can provide pictures of the diamonds which is very important with cushion shapes, so you can get an idea of how they look. Fancy shapes can be tricky to judge by the numbers and cushions are no exception, and the eyes are very important to see if a particular diamond speaks to you! I am no expert on these shapes, please bear in mind, just trying to start you off.

You could drop the clarity considerably, some consider VVS overkill, VS might be a good choice and even some SI clarities might be eyeclean, although they need to be evaluated individually. If you included VS and possibly SI in your search this would open up more options, and or you could possibly go bigger or raise the colour if you wished. Colour can be noticed more in a cushion and many fancy shapes, but unless you are colour sensitive an H might be a good middleground to choose and face up nicely white.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
for once I''m fairly relieved about the depth/table numbers on these stones but I have to tell you that as similar as these two stones seem they could be WIDLY different in how they perform - this isn''t comparing RB to RB this could be as different as comparing a princess to an emerald cut. The pattern in which the facets are cut makes THE biggest impact on the stone - then of course having those facets actually cut to compatible angles is key. With cushions being so all over the place in design right now, it''s really important that you use your eyes. There are some sweetish spots in numbers - sort of. But because one "flavor" of cushion and another might respond to different number sets, its impossible to know just based on numbers which you''ll like better.

Just going by what you have here I''d go for # 1 simply because it has more face up presence and the table is smaller (but by only 1% so... that''s negligible). Really... I bought my cushion from BN and in a way I lucked out... if you would post links to the GIA certs or post the certs so I can see the facet plots, I might be able to help you understand the "flavors" of the stones, assuming you don''t know what you''re looking for in cut already :)
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
that thread was very helpful, I didnt even know there were different types of cushion cuts...

The cushion my GF loved was one from Tiffany''s (of course), does anyone know which type of cushion they carry? They said that they are the onle one that has it (and not even available in Tiffanys outside of NY.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Is there a picture of the WF diamond? If not, they could supply one on request. Here is a link to one I found just browsing - I am no expert on the numbers, but it looks very pretty to me, plus I would trust Jon's judgement.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2350/

I would continue with what you are doing, check out the vendor sites and see what they have to offer and the cut info to go with it, plus the all important pictures, I wouldn't want to buy a cushion without a photograph personally, the grading reports aren't enough to go on in my opinion.
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
Thanks for the help
no picture on the Whiteflash website. I emailed and asked for one.

My concern with the diamond you suggested is the color, Ive read its very important with a cushion so I was trying to go no higher than H (preferably G)
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/6/2006 10:19:51 AM
Author: latennight71
Here are the jpgs of the certs from BN
http://www.bluenile.com/certs/386/GIA15024431.jpeg - 1.51c

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/85/GIA15293233.jpeg 1.63

I tried lowering the clarity requirement and there really werent any better color grades (at least on BN) within my price range (need to keep the stone at around $9 - $10K
if you look at these two certs in the lower left corners you will see a diagram or drawing of the *rough* facet type - it won''t be exact or custom to that particular stone - but if you compare the two you''ll see that while these two stones have fairly similar numbers, the facet plots are VASTLY different. One has 6 pavillion mains and one has 4. The one with 4 has 28 pavillion facets and a "crushed ice" appearance which I''ve heard can be leaky but also convey an overall brlliance better, but the fire will be less and small pinfire. Te one with 6 I''ve not see in person... but it has more of a "brilliant" cut with 22 pavillion facets. Neither of these are the antique cushion type (which has 24 pavillion facets) which produces yet another totally different look LOL

The best way to *see* these IMO is to go to the james allen website and ignore color and clarity for the time being and just do a search for ALL CUSHIONS and then just look at the ones that have both a GIA certificate AND a photo.... I recommend you pull up the cert first and leave it in the background while you look at the photo... that way you can see how the different cut types manifest themselves and then you can go back to your vendor (doesn''t have to be james allen) and tell them which type(s) you like or don''t like. That will narrow the field :) It will also help you looking at blue nile to look at the certs but until you do the little homework thing at JA the plots might not mean much to you :D
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/6/2006 11:52:14 AM
Author: Lorelei
Is there a picture of the WF diamond? If not, they could supply one on request. Here is a link to one I found just browsing - I am no expert on the numbers, but it looks very pretty to me, plus I would trust Jon''s judgement.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2350/

I would continue with what you are doing, check out the vendor sites and see what they have to offer and the cut info to go with it, plus the all important pictures, I wouldn''t want to buy a cushion without a photograph personally, the grading reports aren''t enough to go on in my opinion.
to the OP - just so you know, and not to confuse you TOO much - this is yet *another* different cut of cushion LOL This one has 8 pav mains but it is cut so that the "equator" is a facet junction rather than a facet - it''s a very attractive stone, agreed, but while this has 8 pav mains that an antique cut would have, the antique cut would have a facet (which can appear to bowtie - though that''s my fav part of my stone haha) at t equators rather than a junction.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 12/6/2006 12:11:48 PM
Author: latennight71
Thanks for the help
no picture on the Whiteflash website. I emailed and asked for one.

My concern with the diamond you suggested is the color, Ive read its very important with a cushion so I was trying to go no higher than H (preferably G)
Yes thats fine - I was posting that one as an example of what is available from other vendors and how valuable actual pictures can be.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,881
Date: 12/6/2006 10:26:22 AM
Author: latennight71
that thread was very helpful, I didnt even know there were different types of cushion cuts...

The cushion my GF loved was one from Tiffany''s (of course), does anyone know which type of cushion they carry? They said that they are the onle one that has it (and not even available in Tiffanys outside of NY.
I imagine you are talking about the ''patented'' cushion Tiffany calles the ''Legacy''...
As far as i know, it is available only at Tiffany stores through-out the world...

But you are right, it is sold by Tiffany exclusively....
 

jaz464

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
2,022
Latenight71, I would contact a couple of vendors, tell them exactly what you are looking for, and have them begin to search. Vendors like Whiteflash and Gold Old Gold supply a ton of information, which is what you need with cushions. These vendors are entirely trustworthy and will be very honest with you about a diamond's potential.

Another poster is working with GOG to find a cushion and this is their thread. In the first post they have a link to see 5 cushions that Jonathon at GOG chose for them. He made a video of them so they could be seen together. This is invaluable information, especially when working over the internet.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-diamond-would-you-pick.54378/
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/7/2006 9:03:45 AM
Author: jazmine
Latenight71, I would contact a couple of vendors, tell them exactly what you are looking for, and have them begin to search. Vendors like Whiteflash and Gold Old Gold supply a ton of information, which is what you need with cushions. These vendors are entirely trustworthy and will be very honest with you about a diamond''s potential.

Another poster is working with GOG to find a cushion and this is their thread. In the first post they have a link to see 5 cushions that Jonathon at GOG chose for them. He made a video of them so they could be seen together. This is invaluable information, especially when working over the internet.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-diamond-would-you-pick.54378/
I don''t think whiteflash has any in house cushions so everything would have to be called in... they can correct me if I''m wrong... Jon at GOG is working hard to prepare himself for cushon-questers.
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
24 hours later and no diamond yet...
Whiteflash has been great I worked with them for what seemed to be hours yesterday. they had a great candidate but I''m waiting to see if I can find a more modern cushion so it sparkes more (my GF liked the Tiffany cushion but that is out of the question). The depth and table seems ideal and they said the jewler that has it thinks the color should have been an F and would have had it re-certified but its the holiday season (no idea if I should believe that or not).

This was whiteflash offered
http://www.whiteflash.com/cushion/Cushion-cut-diamond-101155.htm
1.53 ct G VS1 Cushion $10,011.00 Call for Availability

Item Code: 10577501
. Report: GIA
. Shape: Cushion
. Carat: 1.53
. Depth %: 63.4
. Table %: 60
. Girdle: MED-VTK
. Measurements: 7.37-6.28X4.20
. Polish: Very Good
. Symmetry: Good
. Culet: None
. Fluorescence: None


This is a candidate from goodoldgold which I think is closer to what my girlfriend wants but I havent been able to get them to call me back (guess they were busy yesterday)
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/2171/
http://goodoldgold.com/items/2171/gia.jpg
1.55ct G SI1 Hand Selected Cushion
Shape: Cushion
Carat Weight: 1.55ct
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
est GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: Negligible
Girdle: 1.29%
Lab Report: GIA
Lab Report #: 14567934
In House: Yes
Width: 6.87mm
Length: 7.29mm
Depth: 4.29mm
Table Percentage: 64.20%
Depth Percentage: 62.47%
Crown Depth: 17.93%
Pavilion Depth: 41.84%

Price: $9,985.49

Any thoughts?
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
I just spoke to Tim at GoodOldGold and he said the stone I was looking at was not the more modern cut that my girlfriend wanted. They are going to try to come up with some other options.
 

winternight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
887
You could get a smaller Legacy ring at Tiffany - is that an option? The Legacy ring is an elaborate setting as well btw, so its not just the cut of the stone. A cushion cut set in a plain setting is a very different ring from the Tiffany Legacy. Did your girlfriend see a stone in a plain setting?
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/7/2006 11:35:07 AM
Author: latennight71

24 hours later and no diamond yet...
first of all - it''s gonna take you a lot longer than 24 hours to find a good cushion. Particularly with whiteflash. It might take you weeks. They don''t hold an inventory that I''m aware of, so everything has to be called in and they only call in one or two stones before you have to start paying for their shipping. With rounds and princesses the numbers are easy enough that this works, but with cushions, there are too many variables. I''d recommend going with GOG or ERD because both have better access to cushions. Don''t get me wrong, I love the people at WF and have recommended them to my real, local friends here...

Whiteflash has been great I worked with them for what seemed to be hours yesterday. they had a great candidate but I''m waiting to see if I can find a more modern cushion so it sparkes more (my GF liked the Tiffany cushion but that is out of the question). The depth and table seems ideal and they said the jewler that has it thinks the color should have been an F and would have had it re-certified but its the holiday season (no idea if I should believe that or not).

This was whiteflash offered
http://www.whiteflash.com/cushion/Cushion-cut-diamond-101155.htm
1.53 ct G VS1 Cushion $10,011.00 Call for Availability

Item Code: 10577501 The symmetry is only good, might want to hold out for very good.... the table might be a bit big and the depth a tad shallow for a cushion, especially if it goes to very thick for the girdle.... of course it could be beautiful, which is why you need eyes or at least pictures of cushions... the numbers will not give you an answer. Did you do the james allen thing I recommended?

. Report: GIA
. Shape: Cushion
. Carat: 1.53
. Depth %: 63.4
. Table %: 60
. Girdle: MED-VTK
. Measurements: 7.37-6.28X4.20
. Polish: Very Good
. Symmetry: Good
. Culet: None
. Fluorescence: None



This is a candidate from goodoldgold which I think is closer to what my girlfriend wants but I havent been able to get them to call me back (guess they were busy yesterday)
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/2171/
http://goodoldgold.com/items/2171/gia.jpg
1.55ct G SI1 Hand Selected Cushionthis one also has a big table and this is sort of a modern cushion - it has a cross between an OMC and a RB with the long lower girdle facets, and the "good" symmetry is very obvious on the sarin... and you can even see that the sym is off on the diam x. The table is bigger than the depth - but it has a fairly high crown.
Shape: Cushion
Carat Weight: 1.55ct
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
est GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: Negligible
Girdle: 1.29%
Lab Report: GIA
Lab Report #: 14567934
In House: Yes
Width: 6.87mm
Length: 7.29mm
Depth: 4.29mm
Table Percentage: 64.20%
Depth Percentage: 62.47%
Crown Depth: 17.93%
Pavilion Depth: 41.84%

Price: $9,985.49

Any thoughts?
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/7/2006 12:06:44 PM
Author: latennight71
I just spoke to Tim at GoodOldGold and he said the stone I was looking at was not the more modern cut that my girlfriend wanted. They are going to try to come up with some other options.
yes and no- it isn''t the 4 pav main that I think of as a modern cushion and which can be really beautiful - the faceting on the stone is like a modified old mine cut sorta.... it has the same gia facet plot as mine but is listed as cushion brilliant - the lower girdle facets are very long which make it have a bit more of a RB sort of thing going on.... in the facets at least - the sym is way off though. Let me post some pics for you... I''ll be back.
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
yes, I did look at the James Allen site which was great since they have photos of all of the stones.

I was semi sarcastic about expecting to find my stone in 1 day ... :)
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 12/7/2006 1:31:05 PM
Author: latennight71
yes, I did look at the James Allen site which was great since they have photos of all of the stones.

I was semi sarcastic about expecting to find my stone in 1 day ... :)
they have a lot of crushed ice type.... I was going to post pics for you of the different types but I noticed they have the inclusion plot (which I use for facet plotting even though they''re not entirely accurate) missing on a lot of their gia certs.... dunno why that is....
 

latennight71

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
15
I am supposed to get some photos of a candidate today. I wil post when I get them. Thanks again for everyones help
 
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