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Help needed... two different Diamond pendants!

Hounddog

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I've fallen in love with a diamond pendant I tried on IRL ...then while checking it against others online re quality and price etc...I've found another totally different pre loved one and now I'm bemused! Any help would be greatly appreciated....though I fear if they are just 'different breeds' it may come down to cost and/or personal preference ultimately! By the way I'm UK based, so don't want to have to import etc otherwise I would probably go for the Barbara by BrianGavin etc as I've seen lovely ones here :)

The first is a modern RBC certified G VS2 0.50ct Ex/VG/VG but with Strong Fluorescence, bezel set in 18ct White gold. I saw this one in an independent jewellers window, it has been made by the owner, I tried it on and it's lovely, looks good on me, twinkles beautifully ( under jewellers lighting, haven't taken it outside yet but will ask to do so).
Loved it on me and the shop assistant, then when I saw the certificate I'm now concerned about Strong Fluorescence! No sign of a haze or milkiness but possibly a little 'oily' looking, I've been reading around but I'm not sure I fully understand the implications, if any, of Fluorescence.

The other I've only seen on line, though I have communicated with the seller, it much more individual, has an older look to it overall and does cost more but.. Its an uncertified Old Mine Cut H/I SI1 Eyeclean diamond @ 0.90cts set in Platinum.

I'm sorry I've not got any photos of the modern one and I don't want to risk the Old Mine Cut by posting its image etc while I decide, sorry!

How do I decide between the two?!
One is modern and I've tried it on and it looks lovely to me, also it's got a Cert but STRONG Fluorescence. While the other is characterful and larger but not as white or clean and it's unknown about the Fluorescence though I could ask, but I've never seen it in person. Unfortunately I can't afford to buy both and judge them side by side! Help....please!
 

PintoBean

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Go back to the store. Put a big ol' thumb print on the diamond because, honestly, in real life, we end up getting some natural oils on the diamonds one way or another lolol.... they never stay as clean as they do in the store. Have the store assistant put it on, and walk outside with her and inside the store in various lighting condition. See how the stone performs through the grime. Also, if you have a good camera - take videos, go home and review them as you think it through.
 

Hounddog

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Thanks PintoBean, that's a good idea, I didn't take any photos last time and a video would be good. Also looking at it in different parts of the store as you say, but it's not only the choice of is the modern one a decent diamond with the consideration of the Strong Fluorescence but also the choice between modern or Old Mine!

I'm starting to think about buying the Old Mine, knowing it's possible to return it within a short time if I just don't like it, and if I dont then I could get the modern one....choices choices!

Thanks for your help.
 

Hounddog

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Eek.. I've found another to consider!
O.53ct Modern RBC ( GIA qualified assessor) I colour VVS1 clarity, VG/VG/G no idea on Fluorescence as yet, it's set in 18ct White gold bezel again.

How do I decide between the three? Prices are similar.

A. Modern RBC 0.50ct G VS2 Ex/VG/VG with Strong Fluorescence. Anchor Cert (UK). 18ct White Gold. Seen in real life, but I'm worried it is actually a lower grade appearing to be whiter because of the Fluor...and does this matter if I like it!?

B. Old Mine Cut @ 0.90ct H/I SI1 eye clean. Platinum. Not seen.

C. Modern RBC 0.53ct I VVS1, VG/VG/G, Unknown Fluorescence, GIA qualified assessor certificate, 18ct White Gold. Not seen.

All seem to measure in their settings within a mm of each other, so visible wearing size is very similar too!

I would love some advice and/or opinions.
Thank you.
 

Bron357

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Hi, I'm no diamond expert but I'm a shopping expert. The more you look around, the more you'll find and then choosing becomes nigh impossible. Strong fluorescence can make the diamond look a little hazy in sunlight so you must check that. And buying online from eBay etc can be difficult because you aren't going to know what you'll be getting until it arrives. You might score a great deal but then again you might be disappointed and not all sellers offer a return policy if you don't like it.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Strong fluorescence probably not an issue in a VS2. I would prefer it and that would make that one more appealing to me. No one can advise you on an OMC without a picture. Facet pattern is important to me, so I would only buy it if it is an excellent one. The last stone is very good cut, so I would just eliminate it without further information.
 

Hounddog

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Hi Bron357, Thanks for your advice and you're right...the more I see the more I'm muddled, I'm going to stop at these three and try to decide. Thanks for the advice about EBay too, however when mentioning shopping online I didn't mean Ebay (although I have looked there too) as both the latter two pendants are from Independant UK jewellers who have an online presence as well, so both will take returns. I wouldn't believe it could be so difficult to choose...diamonds seem to play mind games!

Hi Diamondseeker2006, Thanks for your help, it's really good to hear that you'd eliminate the last one 'C' due to the Cut only being VG, that's a great help.
I'm now starting to overthink things and I'm wondering if the GIA trainer assessor is just harsher than the Anchor assessor and that maybe the Cut on the first and last are actually equal, as they're two different companies!! :wall: Am I going mad!? Rhetorical!
I'm very pleased to hear that you like the Strong Fluorescence of the first one 'A' and think it's good and not an issue for a VS2...I'll visit that pendant again in the next few days and see if I can detect anything negative from the fluorescence (I've now read so many discussions about it on PS and also the GIA discussion document about it, so hopefully this one isn't that rarity that does have a negative factor from it).

Re photos I'm going to try and post some, the first 'A' I haven't got a photo for but I've seen it in person and I've seen the Certifictate.
The second 'B' I've cropped the image from online and I'll try and attach it, but I suspect it doesn't do itself justice.
The third 'C' seems to show 'arrows' but I really don't know if it's an actual photo of the item or just a stock image! I've seen that happen before!

I think I'm almost ready to eliminate C now, Thanks DiamondSeeker2006. I'm going to see A again very soon and that's possibly the favourite provided it's ok re the Fluor, I loved it when I tried it on. I'm really interested to hear what PSers think about the images of the Old Mine Cut!

Thanks for your help.

_5400.jpeg

_5401.jpeg

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Gypsy

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That old cut is a flat NO for me.
 

Hounddog

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Hi Gypsy, Thank you for helping, I've read a lot of your posts and I trust your opinion so I'll take your advice and discount the Old Mine cut too. It was also the most expensive of the three, so I'm happy not to go there.

Thank you for recommending and giving me the links to the stones you like, unfortunately because of the exchange rate and the additional import taxes etc needing to be added to the item it just makes it unfeasible for me to buy from the US, a real shame but the price rise is dramatic!

So it's now down to the first one that I tried on and loved, if it doesn't show any negative issues from the fluorescence when I see it again then I think I'll get that one, if I do I'll post a photo of it :) If it looks compromised then I'll keep looking here in the UK.

Thanks for your help Gypsy, much appreciated.
 

Hounddog

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Just a quick update. Total change of plan!

I went to see the first one again, it still looked lovely inside but this time I took it outside and I was not excited and 'in love' with it!
I compared it to my F eternity ring diamonds (which I'd cleaned pre visit) and it looked too obviously lower in colour, so I now doubt the colour grading or maybe it is the fluorescence..I don't know....but I do know that I wasn't reassured.

Since then I've had a re think and spoken to family and we think I need to get a GIA stone...
So I'm going to contact a workshop and ask him to get some GIA certificated stones for me to look at, in the region of 0.50ct F/G colour VS-SI Eyeclean.....exciting!

Thanks for your help.
 

ac117

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I'm so glad you went to see it again and were able to take it outside! Jewelry store lighting makes a hunk of carbon look good :roll:

Are you sure you don't want to look at places in the US? Many people here so for a reason. It's usually cheaper for better quality, even when you factor in import fees/taxes. Maybe even some preloved options. We could look if you want if you provide us with your budget! Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!
 

Hounddog

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Hi ac117,

Thank you, that's ever so kind of you, but I'm now in the position where I've spoken to the workshop and he's getting in a selection of GIA stones for me from D-G ( his suggestion to at least see all the top colour grades) and VS1-2 all Ex or VG ( I need to remember to ask to see the Eyeclean SI too) which I'll be viewing soon...so I'll feel bad if I turn away from him now as his prices are very good ( for the UK) being the bench with no shop overheads etc and we've used him a few times before. Don't know why I didn't go to him as soon as I saw the first pendant!

I've had a quick look on James Allen for loose stones as I know lots if PSers seem to go there, the US prices are definitely cheaper for similar GIA stats but when I factor in the import extras which looking online at a Duty and Tax calculator seem to be 20% of purchase value plus at least another 2.5% of same for another tax/fee/duty and possibly other fees too, it really eats into my budget.
I'm hoping to get it in the range of (online calculator says) $1980-$2400 max but by the time I take off import fees etc at the top of my budget that only leaves me with a maximum of $1860 for the complete item itself! I'm definitely not a mathematician so my figures could be slightly wrong!
Looking at JA diamonds of 0.46-0.56 they are about $1200-$1800 plus for the same quality the bench here is proposing.
You're right it is still slightly cheaper to import from the US, but as I've now contacted the bench jeweller I think I need to stick with him ....unless I really don't love any of the stones he shows me, then I could try that route.

Thanks for your kind words and help ac117.

I'll let you know how I get on :)
 

ac117

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I totally understand! I hope he will have some nice stones for you to view - I don't know if these were posted above, but these are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone. Use the HCA calculator to ensure scores are under 2 (you want any score under 2; for example, a score of .8 is not better or worse than a 1.8).

table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

In the event you still aren't happy with what he shows you, I think you have an excellent budget and you could definitely get something beautiful the US:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamond-pendants/four-corners-diamond-pendant-895.htm
 

Hounddog

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Thank you ac117, that info is brilliant as I'll be able to get an immediate idea when I look at the Certs and hopefully I can note the full details and use the HCA calc as you say. That's really useful and much appreciated, thank you.

The Whiteflash link is great and if it doesn't work out for me locally then I'll start to look fully at their website, thank you.
I think I'm still in love with bezel settings, although having one made for me means I have more choice...that's good... yes!?!

The jeweller implied that he personally thinks its a shame to put a great diamond into a bezel setting and prefers claws/prongs for these (but obviously he'll be happy to do whatever I want).
I'm pretty sure I want a bezel, but while I've got the time to consider my options I'm wondering if a semi bezel would be a good compromise for the look I want without fully enclosing the diamond, what do PSers think?
Would I be disappointed by the lack of the symmetrical looking diamond outline of a semi-bezel...if that makes sense?

I've just realised that the bezels I like tend not to have bales attached, sometimes they have two loop attachments for the chain, but generally I prefer that they are running free with the chain being set through the pendant...interesting!

Can you have a free running, non bale set one that's not bezel set?

I'd love to see some photos of different solitaire pendant designs, if anyone is happy to post them.
Thank you.
 

Snowdrop13

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As long as you compare like with like using the numbers quoted above you might be ok. I recently bought a Whiteflash pendant with an ACA diamond, I colour. It's the sparkliest stone I own! I've looked in jewellers windows and even with all the taxes I reckon my pendant is at least 25% cheaper. AND the stones in these windows won't be super ideal cuts. Just be very careful.

PS have you priced out Blue Nile? Might be possible to pick out a decent stone for a pendant again using the cut numbers posted above.
 

Gypsy

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So, go back and look at the stones I picked for you.

Why? So you can see the type of stone I was recommending.

This is a pendant. Not a ring.

You should not be looking at 50 point stones with your budget. You should be looking at just under. With a bezel you won't be able to tell the difference and it will save you a ton.

You only need something that is eyeclean from 8 inches. You don't need VS clarity. You can easily drop to an eyeclean Si2. A feather, even an Si2 feather in a bezel pendant isn't a bad thing. So you can take advantage of that.

And that saves you a ton. You want higher color so stick to F/G.


Go back and look at the ones I picked and the prices. You will see why I picked them.

Ask your dealer to find you something similar. Okay?

Also you DO NOT NEED THE STATS posted above. And I do not advise you do that for a pendant as it is unduly restrictive.

A 60/60 stone will cost less. And if you get a GIA Ex/Ex 60/60 with a crown from 33.5-35 and a pavilion angle from 40.6-41 you are FINE.


So stick to these measurements instead:

Table: 60 or less
Depth: 59-62.3


Okay. All the things you are looking for: higher clarity than you need, 50 points in weight, and tolk. measurements are not things you need in a pendant. Especially in a pendant under 80 points.
 

Hounddog

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Wow! Thank you Gypsy, you've given me a lot to think about. I tend to go online in the evening and to be honest I don't think I adequately looked at all the info you gave me first time as I was just considering those three pendants at the time. I've just looked at the two diamonds you highlighted from your choices, your favourite is already unavailable so someone has spotted that one, but I do like the 0.43ct G SI2 and when I looked at the setting you listed that's rather nice too and looking on the JA website there are a few others that are not bezel set but do have no bale and a choice of scalloped, double prong setting etc.
I've worked through the pricing as best as I can with a duty calculator and the complete pendant is very well priced, even with the import....as a few people said.....I'm still a newbie and my excuse is it takes time for all this new info to percolate through my brain!!

So if I don't see something that 'I fall in love with' at an acceptable price from the bench jeweller I'll know what to do...thank you so much for taking the time to help me out...it must get very frustrating sometimes with us newbies...thinking we've got the hang of it all and making glaring errors to those PSers with special knowledge :wall:

Hi Snowdrop13, Thank you for your help. I've looked at Blue Niles UK website and found out that their diamonds ( and there are lots in my price range and of the sort I fancy) are sent to the UK from Ireland, so no duties there. Thank you, that really worth knowing.

Any photos of non bale pendants would be great.
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you informed.
 

ringo865

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Hounddog

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Thanks Gypsy, I have communicated with JA and they are going to hold it for me :appl:

That gives me time to see the bench jewellers stones and to find out all about what he can do, prices etc from his side. I do feel having contacted him and used him happily before that I need to give him the opportunity, then if that's not right for me I can come back to this lovely Diamond.

We tend to work in 18ct gold here but I noticed the bezel you linked is only available online in 14ct gold, do you happen to know if they could make an 18ct one for me, or would you say for everyday wear that the 14ct is more appropriate being harder?

Thank you ever so much for helping Gypsy, much appreciated.
 

Gypsy

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It is a pendant so it really makes no difference which alloy you use. If you are going for white metal, to me it makes no sense to go with an alloy that has more yellow in it. But you can ask about the alloys I am sure to see what is available if it is somehing you want. If you want yellow metal I totally see going for the 18kt. Just ask them.

:wavey:
 

Hounddog

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Hi Ringo865,
Thank you for the pre loved pendants, I'd be perfectly happy to buy pre loved but really I want to stay at G colour or above, so though lovely those two aren't for me, but thank you for your help.

Hi Gypsy,
Thank you again, that makes sense re the metals.
I hope you don't mind me asking more questions about this diamond...I just like to try and understand as much as I can.
I've noticed one dark inclusion on the edge of the girdle which the JA lady agreed was there but should be ok under the bezel (do you agree?). However, I think I've noticed a 'bunny ears like' dark inclusion that appears low down towards the left side when the stone rotates to a position where it's base point is left and the rest of the stone leans to the right ( sorry about the wordy description!). I've also noticed what looks like a very similar shaped inclusion in the upper above girdle section as the diamonds rotates...am I correct?
Or am I just seeing a reflection of the first 'bunny ears' ...or is it the girdle inclusion reflected ...or is the whole thing just another reflection from the facets and not an inclusion at all (weird looking like ears though)?

I realise this is a SI2 and so I expect inclusions to be there but the JA lady only commented on the dark girdle inclusion and the certificate only mentions a feather so I'm surprised by that alone making it a SI2, but I'm new to this and I could be overthinking!

Thanks again for your help.
 

Gypsy

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Gonna be honest. I have no idea what you are seeing.

Take a screen shot of the diamond head on. Use Microsoft Paint to circle what you see. Post it here.


That's the best way to do these things.
 

Hounddog

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Hi Gypsy,
Thank you, I've managed to take my first screen shots ever (!) and put blue arrows pointing to the 'bunny ears' so I hope that helps, I can follow it with my eye for a little while as it rotates. It might be me being a newbie and not realising it's a normal facet reflection or something!
Just hope I can get them to attach and post now.

Thank you again.

screen_shot_2016-08-29_at_09.png

screen_shot_2016-08-29_at_0.png

screen_shot_2016-08-29_at_1.png
 

Hounddog

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Just thought I'd add, I used the 'super magnifier' on the site next to the GIA cert icon to try and get easier screen shots. Thank you.
 

Gypsy

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Thats just the reflection of the camera and the facets. The only inclusion is the feather at 8 o'clock.
 

Hounddog

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Thank you Gypsy :)

I did notice the feather, the JA lady confirmed the little black dot on the girdle but presumably that is the camera too.
Huge relief, thank you again.
 

Hounddog

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OK...update time...You know when you go out to buy a dress and you fall in love with a trouser suit!! Well, I've sort of done that with the local bench jeweller and my bezel set pendant plans!
I've also learnt a few things about myself, might be the same for everyone really, but I can spot the difference in tiny amounts of a MM and I'm also quite colour sensitive..damn!

I looked at a selection of stones and got it down to three in the final line up with one stone always drawing my eye...even though we kept repositioning it in the line up...just something about it.
So I've committed to the GIA 0.57ct E VS2, it's absolutely stunning in real life and I just liked it more than the D..surprisingly! It's EX/EX/VG if I remember correctly and I liked it so much more than the G colour triple EX...it just looks so much whiter than the G and sparkles so much better than the D colour one...don't know if it's because it's the bigger stone or if it's the combination of colour and cut.
It's GIA and I saw its ID number under the microscope too.

I forgot to copy down all of its stats so I'm going to ask for a copy of them, so I can use the gadgets....but as it was obviously 'the one'... I'm wondering if using the gadget might be confidence damaging if it doesn't show up as good as I think it looks IRL.

I've also altered my setting choice (!) partly because he said it was such a shame to bezel such a beauty and to cover the ID code. Also he mentioned 'flipping' etc so I've settled on a modern setting I haven't seen before with two large claws/prongs that sit flat like a mini piece of bezel, but it also has a small bale as he believes it will sit far better and I've taken his advice.
I'm now debating with myself...I really like the setting idea but I did want a Bezel setting for everyday wear!!!
However, I have some time to reconsider the setting and change my mind if I want to. The new setting should look great and I do like it, I'm not into the traditional 4-6 prong set baled solitaire styles so this is a good alternative option.

I've already thought that if I don't love it once it's done I could live with it for a while and then I could always have it reset into the bezel. The setting price is comparatively small to that of the whole pendant.

So I'm going to cancel my 'hold' on the James Allen 0.43ct G SI2 that Gypsy very kindly found for me, it's a great choice and 'Thanks again' Gypsy, but I've just fallen for this other one! So the JA will be available again soon.

Such an exciting experience looking at all those gorgeous diamonds. I'll try and post the inspiration ring setting that is similar to the pendant setting idea, the jeweller said he will make sure it's strong and secure enough to only have the two mini bezel claw/prongs and the basket behind.

Thanks everyone for helping me with all the comments and advice. In a few weeks I'll be able to post photos of my new pendant :)
:appl:

_5526.jpeg
 

Gypsy

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Yay!! All I want is to get you something you love that is worth the money. You have found that! So happy for you. Please post pictures when you have it!
 
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