Help needed deciding between WF and CBI

[uyalison]

I need help. I am deciding between 2 diamonds.

WF K 1.91 VS2 $11,902
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858597.htm

CBI from HPD K 2.02 VS2 $15717
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8962

A bit of background: right now my e-ring is a Bluenile 1.06 ct I vss1. My upgrade goal is 2 ct. I did my research here on pricescope, since WF is often mentioned, without knowing CBI, I 80% decided to go with WF, instead of upgrading with Bluenile. In one of my post, the very helpful @rockysalamander suggested that I look at HPD and Brian Gavin. I did. Thus this post.

I read through quite a few posts here talking about CBI diamonds, comparing them with WF diamonds. Now I am seriously considering CBI because the extra fire and the dramaticness that I keep on hearing people who owns CBI talked out.

But as you can see there is a clear price difference for the extra 0.11 ct. I am just wondering if the extra close to 4000 dollar is worth it. I think I am getting sick debating between the two myself, it is time to call in the help from the pricescope community. Thank you very much in advance.

 

[HappyNewLife]

The CBI diamonds I see here are insanely impressive, but I don't have personal experience with them. I'm sure @cflutist or other CBI owners will chime in about their experience.

I do have a WF ACA and adore it. There is a .22mm size difference, which is enough to notice with the naked eye. Still, $4k for .22 seems like a huge jump for identical color/clarity.

I'd go for the WF diamond, just due to cost. (I'm usually a size horr, so that's saying a lot)

 

[PintoBean]

Why don't you get both stones sent to you to see for yourself?

 

[skypie]

From reading the board, people seem to really prefer CBI over WF. Or at least the CBI fans are much more vocal

 

[JDDN]

Are there any undertones you should be aware of with either stone? Also, the price bump is also due to the fact that you are hitting the 2 carat mark as there is always a bump at the whole carat marks.

 

[gm89uk]

If you are struggling so much, buy the ACA stone, and then take it to a CBI retailer and compare directly. For that price, no way I'd pay more for CBI.

 

[uyalison]

I just did it on a calculator. I thought maybe I did it wrong in my head. The ct difference is really just 0.11 ct.

I love your ring @HappyNewLife. The video of your 2.94 ct diamond, the fire. Oh, mine.
@JDDN, you are right. both from HPD CBI
K VS2 2.02 $15717 per ct = $7780.693069
K VS1 1.56 $10057 per ct = $6446.794872

 

[Tekate]

Both will face up white I'm sure.. I have 2 ACA and 1 expert selection from WF.. they are the most beautiful diamonds I've ever had aside from the K colored 1.33 carat K AVC pictured left that I gave to my son.. Cflutiist's rings/stones are unbelievably beautiful.. they have fire... so do the ACA stones (and my expert selection I think anyway)... if size matters and money doesn't I'd go for the CBI stone, one I would love one and two it's bigger.. I know a 1.91 K ACA is going to be a fireball too.. Wink is wonderful here on the boards, Whiteflash was wonderful to work with as was David and Stephanie at Good Old Gold..I wish I had your dilemma. Looking forward to reading your choice and seeing the stone on your finger! it will be beautiful ...

 

[PintoBean]

From reading the board, people seem to really prefer CBI over WF. Or at least the CBI fans are much more vocal

It cycles. I believe even before I joined it went CBI then WF then BGD then GOG then WF... it just cycles with the super ideals. It really is a factor of what's available when you're ready to pull the trigger at your price point and requirements. Also it's good to call them all Bc they all have super ideals but you might click with one rep more than another. It's a win win having reputable vendors with great products to select amongst.

 

[cflutist]

I would mention that the price-comparison isn’t apples to apples. Prices jump industry-wide at important weight marks like 2.00 carats. The 2-carat mark between the two options skews things. That’s not something relative to HPD or WF, it’s diamond industry reality.


I will also say it’s rare to find Superideals at just under an important weight mark because normal producers will pay more for that rough and then thicken the girdle or use steep-deep angles to keep the stone above 2.00 carats. Those commonly produced 2.00 carat diamonds might ‘face-up’ with a much smaller diameter than well cut diamonds, and they could be much darker in performance, but many factories will do it anyway because those diamonds will exceed the highly coveted 2.00 carat “bragging rights” weight. And they know many people don’t think to check diameter in jewelry stores, or come here to Pricescope to get good advice on performance.


This happens even more as carat weight increases. Just try searching the cut-focused vendors for true Superideal diamonds between 2.70-3.00 carats and you’ll see what I mean. They are practically non-existent.


There is a useful article with graphics and examples here. I wish anyone considering a 2.50+ carat diamond would read this article.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-caratlimit. “

That is one reason that I jumped on my 2.79 F-VS1 CBI because of its rarity. Wink quoted me the price for a 3.00 F-VS2 CBI (cut to order) and it was more than $40k more due to the magic 3.0 mark

 

[diamondseeker2006]

From reading the board, people seem to really prefer CBI over WF. Or at least the CBI fans are much more vocal

I think you'd need to be here quite a bit longer to say that. I am quite sure Whiteflash sales are highest of any of the hearts and arrows vendors here and there are countless WF ACAs posted on this forum. I started out with WF and that is why I have continued to buy from them. That and the fact that they often have the greatest selection of all the H&A dealers and sometimes the lowest prices.

But, I will say that I also have great respect for Wink and John P who are associated with CBI, and I do recommend them and their diamonds highly. I think Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds are two top notch companies who both value quality products and excellent customer service.

To the OP, I would say that you need to decide on your budget for this stone first and foremost, because those two stones have a much different price. If your budget is $15,700, then there might be other stones to consider than just these two.

I'd probably choose this one which is 2 cts and J VS2:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3784253.htm

 

[SimoneDi]

Will you be trading in your stone for either diamond? Honestly, I love super-ideals and all, but have seen some really great non super ideal diamonds that may be just as beautiful in person and with which you can get the full trade-in value of your existing diamond.

 

[uyalison]

Thank you @SimoneDi, @diamondseeker2006, @cflutist, @PintoBean, @Tekate, @gm89uk @skypie

My budget is in the low 10,000 for diamond. Hoping for something around 2 ct, slightly below is okay too.

If I am to go with WF, K, VS2 1.90, I am comfortable with the price, color, clarity and size. I don't need to go bigger or higher in color, until the next upgrade. That is my plan until CBI came along.

I think I am totally bought into CBI diamond. This CBI K VS2 2.0 is really reaching the upper end of my budget this time around. I am only willing to spend that much, because if I want a CBI this is the only one available in the database that is the closet to what I am looking for in terms of size and clarity. There is another one available in their data base that is under 2:
K SI1 1.71 ct $10872
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7591
If it is higher in clarity, it would be a contender as well.

Yes, I will need to trade in or sell my existing diamond. I have accepted that I will take a loss. The reason I don't want to upgrade with Bluenile, is that I will never be certain if what I am getting is a super ideal. So I thought with WF, they do the work for me.

 

[uyalison]

 

[PintoBean]

For the bluenile upgrade you have to pay double what you paid on the original stone, right? If you tell us what the bluenile upgrade stone budget would be, we could take a stab at finding you a virtual stone cut to ideal proportions. I want you to have all your options laid out in front of you before you pull the trigger.

 

[uyalison]

thanks again @PintoBean. I actually already have a post on this
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ct-diamond-from-bluenile.238521/#post-4300029
I never had a k before, so I think I might want to upgrade to a higher color in the future. it would be hard to do with bluenile.

 

[PintoBean]

I think you should have both CBI and WF send you the diamonds for your own visual inspection to decide if the extra $$ is worth it to you. Wouldn't you test drive a car before buying it or at least see it in person and check out the interior and exterior as a minimum?

 

[KristinTech]

I think you should have both CBI and WF send you the diamonds for your own visual inspection to decide if the extra $$ is worth it to you. Wouldn't you test drive a car before buying it or at least see it in person and check out the interior and exterior as a minimum?

And then be sure to post a zillion pictures, of course, LOL!

 

[ringo865]

The whiteflash K 1.91 was on my wishlist, then it was reserved and disappeared from the search. (I'm not buying it, just "wishing").

Do you have it on reserve now?

I saw WF just listed this 2.023K VS2 - "just" as in today. Expert selection, not ACA. Still, looks pretty good, a little bit skinnier arrows than the 1.91, but over 2 ct. I wonder why it's not ACA?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I truly believe if two stones from these vendors had the exact same angles, table, depth, diameters, color and clarity, we'd be totally thrilled with either one. I don't think we could tell them apart visually. I believe the recent comparison threads happened to favor particular stones because of their particular cut. For example, some prefer higher crown angles and smaller tables. Some favor larger lower girdle facets. Nothing is wrong with having preferences. And I would be proud to own stones from both.

I actually ordered my very first online diamond from Wink about 12 years ago when I was new to PS and trying to figure out what I wanted (before Wink was selling CBI)! Wink probably has long forgotten this, but it was a 1.66 ct diamond that he was selling for his sister. I thought it was beautiful but too big for me at that time! Funny what PS does to a person over time!

So my opinion is, you can't go wrong with either vendor. If you want CBI/High Performance Diamonds, I would choose a stone that is closer to your budget for now and upgrade later. If you go with Whiteflash, I'd choose the 2.02 K VS2 that @ringo865 just posted. Good luck with your decision!

 

[uyalison]

Thank you @flutist. I read the link. It explains a lot of things. Very enlightening on the price part of the question. Thank you.

 

[TreeScientist]

I would personally go with the WhiteFlash diamond, not because I think ACAs are better than CBIs, but because of the 2 carat premium mentioned by @cflutist. Honestly, I highly doubt you'd be able to see a difference between the SuperIdeal cuts from different vendors IRL, as all will have excellent performance. Finding a SuperIdeal right below the price-hike points (1, 1.5, 2, 3 carat, etc.) is extremely difficult though, so I would jump on the 1.91 from WF. If it were the other way around (1.91 CBI vs 2 carat ACA for $4K more) then I would recommend the CBI.

Basically, you're paying $4K more for the magic 2 carat mark (and a .15mm size increase). Only you can decide whether that .15mm is worth $4K.

 

[CareBear]

The whiteflash K 1.91 was on my wishlist, then it was reserved and disappeared from the search. (I'm not buying it, just "wishing").

Do you have it on reserve now?

I saw WF just listed this 2.023K VS2 - "just" as in today. Expert selection, not ACA. Still, looks pretty good, a little bit skinnier arrows than the 1.91, but over 2 ct. I wonder why it's not ACA?

I've not seen a CBI in person but have owned both an WF Expert Selection and an ACA. I can tell you that IRL you won't really be able to tell WF ES vs ACAs. ES stones aren't rejected from the ACA line because they sparkle less. Usually it is some other factor about the stone that does not meet the strict ACA criteria. In the case of the 2.023 K VS2, I think it is because one of the hearts is slightly off. Of the three stones, I would definitely get the 2.023 ES!

 

[egemnoel]

From reading the board, people seem to really prefer CBI over WF. Or at least the CBI fans are much more vocal

LOL, brilliant!! Best comment yet

We like to share with others what we personally experience dealing with CBI / HPD. Effortless, pain free and a first class service and we haven't yet started talking about how expertly cut the diamond is. Don't forget the BEST buy back and upgrade policy out of all the PS vendors. For the new person who may not have dealt with any of the vendors confidence is very important. I deal with HPD for this reason and I only live 5,000 miles away.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I saw WF just listed this 2.023K VS2 - "just" as in today. Expert selection, not ACA. Still, looks pretty good, a little bit skinnier arrows than the 1.91, but over 2 ct. I wonder why it's not ACA?

A quick view of the ACA criteria, and it appears the Star % is just off - it’s a 47 whereas the ACA criteria is 48-55, per their website: https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

Not sure if that’s the only ‘miss’ or if there is further analysis type stuff that might bump it from ACA.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@uyalison If it were me, I would go with the 1.91 ACA because budget/$4k price difference is a tangible item that I can/would discern more-so than the .22mm difference. But, if branding and/or not hitting that magical 2ct mark now is a priority over budget, it may be worth the additional $4k to get the CBI - only you can decide which criteria is more important to you.

And I would echo what @TreeScientist said, it’s not because I prefer WF over HPD - if the inventory tables were turned, I would absolutely say the exact same thing and buy the CBI.

 

[Niel]

I’m going to take exception to the statement made above that theses will “definitely “ face up white.

K is a line a lot of people don’t like to cross- and AGS has been said to be ever so slightly more lenient on color. Meaning, you might find an AGS k too tinted for your liking regardless of which you pick. I’d absolutely see one in person.
I’d also take the time to find a no branded Gia J (or even higher) and see if you prefer the color.

 

[OoohShiny]

If you are considering spending 15k on a CBI, you should also look at what that might buy you from WF or Blue Nile - if you can secure a large increase in size, perhaps that might tempt you away from ultra-tight cutting! lol

Whichever of the 'super ideals' you get, or even if we can find you a great GIA XXX on Blue Nile, I think you will be very happy.

 

[TreeScientist]

I’m going to take exception to the statement made above that theses will “definitely “ face up white.

K is a line a lot of people don’t like to cross- and AGS has been said to be ever so slightly more lenient on color. Meaning, you might find an AGS k too tinted for your liking regardless of which you pick. I’d absolutely see one in person.
I’d also take the time to find a no branded Gia J (or even higher) and see if you prefer the color.

If you are considering spending 15k on a CBI, you should also look at what that might buy you from WF or Blue Nile - if you can secure a large increase in size, perhaps that might tempt you away from ultra-tight cutting! lol

Whichever of the 'super ideals' you get, or even if we can find you a great GIA XXX on Blue Nile, I think you will be very happy.

I'm also of the "see what you can get elsewhere" opinion. I remember from your original thread that you were looking at some diamonds from BlueNile. Any reason you decided against it? Doing the trade-up with Blue Nile would allow you to maximize your budget, as you wouldn't be taking a loss on your current diamond.

I concur with @Niel regarding the color. I don't think that a K will face up completely white, even in a SuperIdeal. Are you sure you would be OK with the color? Have you looked at a K in person? The jump from I to K is a fairly large jump, as the brackets get wider the further down you go.

Before spending close to $16K on a CBI stone (plus the loss you would take with your current diamond) I would look at similar options on BlueNile. This is a 2 carat I with great proportions. IMO you would notice the difference between a K and an I color MUCH more than the difference between an Ideal and SuperIdeal diamond, especially in larger diamonds where color becomes more apparent.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

 

[gm89uk]

Having WF and CBI are great, providing more options to consumers. Ultimately there will be a better option for someone's specific requirements at either CBI or WF with that inventory but the choice is a luxury to have.

Drizzle's comparison which very thorough, was with proportions quite different between the ACA and the CBI stone so for me it is not at all conclusive. Ultimately if the H&A images are spot on, and the light performance is fantastic, I fail to see what 'special sauce' there can be for a diamond cut to tight proportions.