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Help me select and engagement ring stone....

Which stone to choose....

  • Stone 3

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Stone 2

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .
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Xyzpdq0121

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
10
Ok, Like most guys I am fairly clueless when it comes to picking out a ring. Diamonds have never been my think. I am more into the look of sapphires myself, but somehow, I do not think a Sapphire ring will work for popping the question! So I am at an loss at what to do.

With the economy like it is, I am on a strict budget. Lucky, I have a gal that only wants a .5ctw ring and nothing too much bigger. I have the choice of three stones but I can not decide. So I am looking for opinions. The ring is going to be white gold. Here are my choices of the stones:

1) Shape: Round .50ctw
Color: F
Clarity: SI2
Polish/Symmetry: Good/Good

2) Shape: Round .51ctw
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Polish/Symmetry: Good/Excellent

3) Shape: Round .61ctw
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
Polish/Symmetry: Good/Good

All three stones are the same price. I am leaning toward stone 2 because I have been told that cut can overcome other flaws in the stone and it is rated higher in cut. But I am just not sure. I want to make sure that I am getting the best "deal" and advice from people that are not involved in the sale of the stone. Also, so I can make sure that I am getting the best deal, would would be approx market rate from a ring out of these three stones?

So what you think?!? All "look" nice to me. You really can not tell the size difference in the large stone. I don''t know, they all look like clear carbon to me! :)
 
More info is needed please, depth and table percentages, crown and pavilion angles for each, girdle thicknesses and the diameter measurements. This info you can get on the grading reports for each diamond and is essential if we are going to be able to determine how well each diamond is cut so we can help you make a choice. Also do you know if these are eyeclean, are they diamonds which the vendor/s have physical access to so they can check them out for you, or have you seen them in person?

Also don't go by cut ratings generally as these are no guarantee of a well cut stone, each diamond needs evaluating on all the proportions, cut labels can be misleading.
 
And what is the $ for each?
 
I will try to get that information today... For now all I have is the pol/sym rating of each. The rest of the numbers were always greek to me!!
 
Date: 6/12/2009 12:27:09 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121
I will try to get that information today... For now all I have is the pol/sym rating of each. The rest of the numbers were always greek to me!!
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Don't worry, get the info above then report back - we can help you through it. Also for each diamond, can you find out what the inclusions are on each - by this I mean what are the types of inclusions plotted on the diamond diagrams such as clouds, feathers and so on. This can also be a factor in helping you choose the best one.

Also if you can see the diamonds in person, ask if you can check them out away from the store lights to see how they behave in plain daylight and also to look for any visible inclusions with the naked eye, check face up and from all angles carefully and from various viewing distances to see if anything jumps out at you.

One last thing for now, check if the diamonds have any fluorescence and if so check if it is blue fluorescence which is the most commonly seen type and the strength, negligible, faint, medium, strong, very strong for example.
 
Each ring, set in 18k white gold, is $950. I have been "told" that the retail value of each is around $1,500. I am not going to a store like Zales for the ring, but a family jeweler to have the ring made. He has made all the wedding rings in my family for over 25 years. I trust him, but it is always good to get opinions.
 
Date: 6/12/2009 12:29:54 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121
Each ring, set in 18k white gold, is $950. I have been ''told'' that the retail value of each is around $1,500. I am not going to a store like Zales for the ring, but a family jeweler to have the ring made. He has made all the wedding rings in my family for over 25 years. I trust him, but it is always good to get opinions.
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Yes definitely and cut is so important if your GF is going to have a pretty sparkling stone, so we can help you see which one might be the best choice.
 
Date: 6/12/2009 12:29:54 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121
Each ring, set in 18k white gold, is $950. I have been ''told'' that the retail value of each is around $1,500. I am not going to a store like Zales for the ring, but a family jeweler to have the ring made. He has made all the wedding rings in my family for over 25 years. I trust him, but it is always good to get opinions.
Click to expand...
Does that price include the diamond? That is a very low price for this size diamond... I suspect that they are not ideal cut, because something has to give in the price equation. If you can get the information Lorelei requested then we can definitely give our opinions about the diamonds!
 
F/SI2 at the same price with H/SI with negligible carat difference? I''d take a closer careful look, as Lorelei suggested.
 
Again, thank you so much for the replies so far. Unfortunately, now that I found this place, I have spent this entire afternoon reading instead of working!!!

I am having each of the three certs faxed to me and I should have them in hand Monday if not earlier. I will take the concerns on price to heart. Like I said, my family has had a long standing relationship with this jeweler. I am the youngest child of 10 and all of us have had our rings made by this gentleman (not to mention all the other jewelry that he has made over the past 25 years). But still, you can never be too careful and what seems to be too good, most likely is. I pretty much know he is not looking to turn a profit on the ring and doing it more as a favor due to my budget restrictions.... From what I have seen (granted I have a very untrained eye) I did not think it was that much of a discount, or as much as some of the posts made it sound. Many stones that I have found on-line, in the ranges of color, clarity, and size that these three stones are, were in the area of $700-$900. Now that I am reading here, the table %, crown and angles make a huge difference in price and I have never paid attention to those but I thought those things are what give you the symm rating.
 
Well, we will wait for the report then.

Or you can just ask for the GIA report numbers. We can check out the relevant numbers to the cut online using that number and the weight of the stone thru this link.
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm
 
Date: 6/12/2009 2:53:41 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121
Again, thank you so much for the replies so far. Unfortunately, now that I found this place, I have spent this entire afternoon reading instead of working!!!

I am having each of the three certs faxed to me and I should have them in hand Monday if not earlier. I will take the concerns on price to heart. Like I said, my family has had a long standing relationship with this jeweler. I am the youngest child of 10 and all of us have had our rings made by this gentleman (not to mention all the other jewelry that he has made over the past 25 years). But still, you can never be too careful and what seems to be too good, most likely is. I pretty much know he is not looking to turn a profit on the ring and doing it more as a favor due to my budget restrictions.... From what I have seen (granted I have a very untrained eye) I did not think it was that much of a discount, or as much as some of the posts made it sound. Many stones that I have found on-line, in the ranges of color, clarity, and size that these three stones are, were in the area of $700-$900. Now that I am reading here, the table %, crown and angles make a huge difference in price and I have never paid attention to those but I thought those things are what give you the symm rating.
Click to expand...
Yes, cut quality which is so important can definitely affect price and it will DEFINITELY affect the beauty of your stone! Don't worry, whichever way to decide to do this if you prefer to work with this jeweller, we can help you find the best diamond for your needs.

Here is a list of info we will need in any case to help you.

Carat weight
Colour grade
clarity grade and the grade making inclusions on the clarity plot such as feather, needle, clouds, crystals etc.

Type of lab grading report ( Look for GIA/ AGS preferably as these are the top 2 labs). You could also give us the report numbers and we can look the info below up from there if you wish.

depth %
table%
crown and pavilion angles
girdle thickness
polish and symmetry grades
diameter measurement
lower girdle percent if available
star percent if available
fluorescence if applicable
 
Date: 6/12/2009 2:53:41 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121
Again, thank you so much for the replies so far. Unfortunately, now that I found this place, I have spent this entire afternoon reading instead of working!!!

I am having each of the three certs faxed to me and I should have them in hand Monday if not earlier. I will take the concerns on price to heart. Like I said, my family has had a long standing relationship with this jeweler. I am the youngest child of 10 and all of us have had our rings made by this gentleman (not to mention all the other jewelry that he has made over the past 25 years). But still, you can never be too careful and what seems to be too good, most likely is. I pretty much know he is not looking to turn a profit on the ring and doing it more as a favor due to my budget restrictions.... From what I have seen (granted I have a very untrained eye) I did not think it was that much of a discount, or as much as some of the posts made it sound. Many stones that I have found on-line, in the ranges of color, clarity, and size that these three stones are, were in the area of $700-$900. Now that I am reading here, the table %, crown and angles make a huge difference in price and I have never paid attention to those but I thought those things are what give you the symm rating.
Click to expand...
We await your numbers!
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Just for comparison on price, diamonds with an ideal cut in the G/H and .50 - .60ct range are between $1500 and $2000 at WF, and from $1000 to $2200 on Bluenile.
 
Ok, I received two of the certs today (Only one is for the stones listed, the other is for a new stone that he thinks I would like). One of the certs is GIA and the other is EGL. My jeweler has told me that "sometimes" EGL stones are graded different the GIA. He stated that they tend to rate color slightly different but are often stricter on clarity. I could not really tell a difference, but they all look like clear carbon to me.

So here we go:

#2 Stone:
EGL 2903346229
Cut: round "Hearts and Arrows"
Carat: 0.54
Fluor: none
Color: H
Clarity: SL1
Polish: Excellent
Symm: Excellent
Dimensions: 5.36-5.28 x 3.15
Total Depth: 59.2%
Table Width: 57%
Crown Height: 13%
Pavillion Depth: 42%
Girdle: thin, faceted
Cutlet: None
Graining: Nil

(New stone)
GIA 6107331836
Cut: round
Carat: 0.50
Color: G
Clarity: SI2
Cut grade: Good
Clarity Characteristice: Cloud
Polish: Excellent
Symm: Good
Flour: None
Dimensions: 4.98-5.01 x 3.22
Depth: 64.5%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 38 degrees
Crown Height: 16%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6 deg
Pavilion Depth: 44%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 85%
Girdle: Slightly thick, faceted 4.5%
Cutlet: None

I guess my notes were off... We looked at so many stones that it does not surprise me that I mixed some things up. I am still waiting for the other two certs to come across. I will post them when I receive them... Any thoughts so far?!? It is all numbers to me! :)
 
Both are not good.

The EGL stone is too shallow, it will go dark if you look at it closely, if you are using it for a pendant then ok.

The GIA stone is too deep, light leakage, will look dull and also face up small.
 
As I suspected from the price, they are not ideally cut diamonds
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I''m sorry to say! They will suffer the issues hat Stonecold mentions.

With a .5ct diamond you want the best cut possible to really get the most out of its size! It is worth it to look for something fantastic. I know you feel a connection to your present vendor, but with a limited budget, you dollar will go a lot further with an internet vendor. There are many wonderful vendors with great reputations on PS based on hundreds or even thousands of transactions...But you won''t get a .5ct diamond & setting for under $1000. If it were me, I would get the simplest setting I could and look for an eye clean SI1 or SI2 in a J color and get the larges carat weight I could, though it would be less than .50ct.
 
Could you work with an internet vendor on the stone and setting and use your jeweler for the wedding bands and/or other jewelry for your birthdays, anniversary, etc.? You will get much more for your money with an online vendor. There are many nice stones from James Allen, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, to name a few, from the .40 to possibly .50 or slightly above range. If you get a well-cut .40 - .45 stone, it may look larger than many of the larger, poorly cut stones. That''s the amazing thing about cut -- it really maximizes the sparkle, color, size, etc., of a stone, even a smaller stone.
 
See, now I am just very confused. When I plug the EGL stone into pricescope's Halloway cut adviser, it tells me that it is good on light return, Excellent on fire, scintillation and spread. Then it rates it a 2.8 "Very good - worth buying if the price is right" on total visual performance. Looks like an AGS of about 3. I entered in these values " 59.2% depth, 57% table, 13% crown, 42% pavilion, 0% culet ". Did I enter in something wrong?!? Or is it that "good" is not good enough?!? Then the question that comes to mind is, "is the price 'right' at $900".

Now, the GIA stone did not fair as well...

I am not married to this jeweler so yes, I will consider a different stone from an outside source. I know he will set any stone that I would like him to, so that is not a problem. Problem is that I do not have much money, so I have to make the best purchase I can with limited funds. I do HIV/AIDS relief work in Africa and have spent my life not gaining wealth in monetary denominations. I work in the US a few months out of the year to fly back around the world and spend what little money I have helping others. In years past, this is not a problem because my job has been in real estate appraisal, but since the market crash funds are tighter then ever. To the point that this might be the first year in the past 12 that I will not be able to do relief work. I can extend my budget some but, unless I can smuggle in a conflict diamond, the perfect stone might not be a reality. I thought about buying overseas, where jewelry is cheaper, but I just do not trust it as much as a stone here. But I regress...

So what are the values that I should be looking for when looking for a stone?!? Looks like I should be looking for something with a crown angle 32 and 36 with a pavilion angel between 40.5 and 41, correct?!?

Well, let see what the other certs are and how they match up... This thing is forever and it needs to be right!

Thanks again for the great education, I have learned more in the past 24 hours then I thought I could in a year of studying this stuff!!!
 
Read the usage warning and information on the result page of the cut adviser for more information on why we say the EGL is a bad stone. You are one of those people that never read a instruction manual before using an equipment, right?

Click here to read usage warnings and information.
 
The first diamond has shallow proportions and can have obstruction issues. What this is, the diamond can look dark at close scrutiny due to the viewers head/ body blocking light to the diamond. This is why some prefer these types of stones for pendants or earrings as they are not viewed in the same way as rings.

See this video to see the effects of obstruction in action, titled Head Obstruction on the lower right of this page.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/

The second diamond is what we call a steep deep, this one will leak light so basically neither are good choices unfortunately. EGL can be ok if you find a well cut diamond and it checks out with an independant appraisal which agrees with the colour and clarity given.
 
Date: 6/13/2009 2:56:42 AM
Author: Xyzpdq0121


So what are the values that I should be looking for when looking for a stone?!? Looks like I should be looking for something with a crown angle 32 and 36 with a pavilion angel between 40.5 and 41, correct?!?
Click to expand...


Here are some numbers you can use as a guide in order to find a well cut round diamond xyz

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

From expert John Pollard.

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.


With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).


 
Ok, So I got all the certs and am now just selecting the best stone... Below are the cert #s, price and what they include. You can tell me the best way to go. (I have not seen all these stones)

EGL USA # US50644811D (0.69ctw) $1,160 (after tax) including 18K setting
EGL USA # US51261607D (0.60ctw) $950 (after tax) including 18K setting
GIA # 17528243 (0.40ctw) $800 NOT including setting
GIA # 2105202628 (0.46ctw) $900 NOT including setting
EGL USA # US86525120D (0.48ctw) $1,050 NOT including setting
GIA # 2106258652 (0.51ctw) $1,000 NOT including setting
AGS # 0010222703 (0.417ctw) $775 NOT including setting
Or the "shallow" H SI1 0.54ctw (EGL International #2903346229) stone posted earlier for $950.00 (after tax) including setting

So, any thoughts?!? Which are the best price vs quality?!? The setting I am going for is about $300 so the ones that include it might be even better deals!

Again, thanks for your help so far. I am MUCH more knowledgeable now then I ever have been. I think to the point that I am frustrating people when I am talking to them because the B&M people do not seem to know as much as I have learned in the past few weeks!!
 
Linked to the report check.
Date: 6/17/2009 5:50:49 PM
Author: Xyzpdq0121

EGL USA # US50644811D (0.69ctw) $1,160 (after tax) including 18K setting

EGL USA # US51261607D (0.60ctw) $950 (after tax) including 18K setting

GIA # 17528243 (0.40ctw) $800 NOT including setting

GIA # 2105202828 (0.46ctw) $900 NOT including setting

EGL USA # US86525120D (0.48ctw) $1,050 NOT including setting

GIA # 2106258652 (0.51ctw) $1,000 NOT including setting

AGS # 0010222703 (0.417ctw) $775 NOT including setting
Click to expand...

#1 numbers look good. Need IS image.

#2 numbers look good. Need IS image.

#3 numbers look good. Best number, safest.

#5 pavilion angle too shallow for that crown.

#6 numbers look good. Need IS image.

#7 numbers look good. Need IS image.

EDT: update on the report link.
ok, got it, you give the wrong report number.

#4 is too shallow in the pavilion too. sorry.
 
Here is the report for that missing GIA cert that you can not find. (See PDF Below) Or see this link
 

Attachments

Both IS looks good to me, no leakage, just not liking the long thin arrow look of the GIA stone, but that's personal preference.
 
SC - does the slight bit of indirect light (green) on the AGS stone around 12:00 bother you at all?
 
Date: 6/17/2009 7:43:15 PM
Author: the tree sees
SC - does the slight bit of indirect light (green) on the AGS stone around 12:00 bother you at all?
Click to expand...
Not too bad.
 
Well, both look good to me, Xyz.
18.gif
Might just come down to personal preference.
 
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