shape
carat
color
clarity

Help me pick an OEC!

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
Hello! I thought I would continue my previous thread ([URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-quite-confused-any-assistance-would-be-appreciated.216289/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-quite-confused-any-assistance-would-be-appreciated.216289/[/URL]) here and have it focus on a search for an OEC!

Since I last posted, I had a chance to go to a consignment store and compared another 1 carat OEC to their selection of RBs. It still seems like the RBs have more or that rainbow fireball effect, but this particular OEC is getting a little closer to what I want in a firey diamond.

In terms of what I want in a diamond, I'm looking for an OEC with as much fire and sparkle possible and around 1 carat. I'm willing to sacrifice clarity and color (as long and it's not face up yellow). Budget around $3000-4000ish

I've also e-mailed mydiamondzone, GOG, and OWD. Awaiting response from GOG and OWD. However Ilya from mydiamondzone got back to really me quickly and recommended the following within my budget:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDEAL-CUT-1ct-OLD-EURO-ANTIQUE-DIAMOND-LOOSE-J-VS1-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-OEC-/401002670763?hash=item5d5d9f2aab (video: https://youtu.be/feIl9vXfc6g)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1-10CT-OLD-EUROPEAN-VERY-GOOD-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-CERT-L-VS1-ENGAGEMENT-/151835764018?hash=item235a1de532

Any thoughts on these two diamonds? Hard to gauge the sparkle based on the EGL reports and video alone. I'm leaning heavily toward the first one but am concerned about the girdle size since I want a six prong petite setting, though Ilya said it should be fine.

Today I'll be going to San Francisco again to check out Lang Jewelry and Tenenbaum's. Maybe I'll have some luck there!

Thank you again for the help!
 

SunnyDelta

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
57
I am by no means an expert…many more here have much more experience shopping for and selecting OECs than I have and maybe someone else can jump in and answer your specific questions regarding the two diamonds you posted.

In general I think a good start is here:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamonds

If you use the chart as a guideline it will help you eliminate diamonds that fall way out of range. **Not to complicate matters, but there are diamonds that don’t follow the chart and are still amazing…. so it’s still more about the eye than anything else.** As far as fire goes, I personally don’t know what kind of angles, or proportions produce a fiery OEC versus a brilliant OEC so that’s something that is usually judged with the eye (I assume).

It sounds like you’re on the right track as far as contacting some good vendors. Two more I would recommend are Love affair diamonds LAD, and jewels by grace JBG if you haven’t already considered them. The nice thing about their sites is they have amazing pictures of the diamonds which really helps narrow your selections over the internet. I would let the vendors know what you want: lots of fire and sparkle @ a lower color and clarity to maximize weight. Also worth considering is facet pattern, each diamond will have a very different look depending on its symmetry and facet pattern.
Good Luck!!!
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
Thanks for the link to the chart! I've been looking for something like this and hopefully it'll help with my search. Unfortunately, neither of the diamonds listed above fall under the parameters in the chart. I'm hoping that this is because of the nature of OECs, but maybe someone can clarify for me.

I ended up in San Francisco and checked out 3 jewelry shops, including Lang's. I finally got a change to take at look at some well-cut OECs that seemed to show fire almost as consistently as the MRBs I've seen over the past few weeks. The more I see OECs, the more I appreciate the uniqueness of the faceting and smaller table.

In terms of online vendors, I am still waiting to hear back from OWD. I've reached out to LAD and JBG and am awaiting suggestions from them. GOG also e-mailed me back, but I'm hesitant to put down $100 unless my diamond search falls through with other vendors.

Not as worried about the fire of OECs, but I did have a jeweler tell me again today that MRBs will be the more firey of the two because they are not hand cut. Not a fan of the conflicting information I keep hearing about MRBs and OECs and their fire.

I told my boyfriend I'd have a diamond selected by the end of this week. Oh, wishful thinking. :lol:
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.
 

16ocean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
703
Hi Pumpkinsareawesome-
I have read it's best to call OWD.

Have fun on the search!
:)
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
I've been looking at mydiamondzone listings while waiting for OWD to get back to me. I'm trying to make sense of the following:

-What makes this considered an Ideal cut diamond? http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDEAL-CUT-1ct-OLD-EURO-ANTIQUE-DIAMOND-LOOSE-J-VS1-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-OEC-/401002670763?hash=item5d5d9f2aab (EGL USA report here: http://images7.solidcommerce.com/sc7052417/Ebay_Photos/EGLresults/8283cert.jpg)

-Looking at the chart above, pretty much all the OECs I'm looking at are out of range. Are there any metrics that determine maximum sparkle, or for OECs do I really have to rely in pictures, videos, and in person inspection? For instance, this diamond (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-14ct-VINTAGE-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-LOOSE-6-8mm-ENGAGEMENT-/151838353662?hash=item235a4568fe,, EGL USA report: http://images7.solidcommerce.com/sc7052417/Ebay_Photos/EGLresults/8201cert.jpg) is really wide. Does fire take a hit as a result?

I'm also looking at this diamond as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-13ct-VINTAGE-H-SI2-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-LOOSE-ROUND-OEC-/401006218264?hash=item5d5dd54c18 (EGL USA report: http://images7.solidcommerce.com/sc7052417/Ebay_Photos/EGLresults/8312cert.jpg)

Looking for OECs gets confusing because there's much less information! If anyone has any advice or input, I'd really appreciate the help! :))
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
4,066
There's not too many loose stones in your price range on either loveaffairdiamonds or jewelsbygrace but have a look in the vintage and antiques rings section. There were some lovely looking ones there. You could also look at Etsy. I bought my OEC engagement ring from a vintage jewellery seller on there.
How are you thinking you might set it?
 

iluvshinythings

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
899
I envy your quest! When I was looking for my OEC I had so much fun. You have the benefit of a few vendors to see in person. I did it all blindly online and still found a beauty. Thank goodness for great guidance from Grace and Erica.

I've heard that Adam at OWD isn't a computer guy. I think you should give him a call and see what he can suggest. I've seen some knockouts from other PSers that came from him.

I bought a trannie from Ilya and Nick at DZ and they pointed me in the right direction. I like their selection and prices a lot. Is there any way you can have them ship you your top picks and return the one you don't want?

As far as the jeweler telling you that there isn't as much fire from an OEC as a RB, I guess that's a matter of personal taste. My guess is that he doesn't have any OECs to sell you but that's just my opinion and I'm grouchy today. I have some really well cut MRBs that give off a huge amount of fire. I have some that are dead. Same thing with OECs. Some are winners and some just aren't. I think you have to find a vendor (or two or three) that you trust and communicate your budget and desires.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
foxinsox|1444298537|3936181 said:
There's not too many loose stones in your price range on either loveaffairdiamonds or jewelsbygrace but have a look in the vintage and antiques rings section. There were some lovely looking ones there. You could also look at Etsy. I bought my OEC engagement ring from a vintage jewellery seller on there.
How are you thinking you might set it?

I'm thinking of a plain white gold six prong setting with aa thin band, like this: http://img.bluenile.com/is/image/customerrings/1595890171?$phab_360$
Maybe some pave on the sides matching the diamond color if I go for something warmer!

I got an email back from Grace, but it looks like the only diamonds she has close to my budget are cushions. Got an email from OWD yesterday and excited to see what he recommends today!
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
iluvshinythings|1444313835|3936265 said:
I envy your quest! When I was looking for my OEC I had so much fun. You have the benefit of a few vendors to see in person. I did it all blindly online and still found a beauty. Thank goodness for great guidance from Grace and Erica.

I've heard that Adam at OWD isn't a computer guy. I think you should give him a call and see what he can suggest. I've seen some knockouts from other PSers that came from him.

I bought a trannie from Ilya and Nick at DZ and they pointed me in the right direction. I like their selection and prices a lot. Is there any way you can have them ship you your top picks and return the one you don't want?

As far as the jeweler telling you that there isn't as much fire from an OEC as a RB, I guess that's a matter of personal taste. My guess is that he doesn't have any OECs to sell you but that's just my opinion and I'm grouchy today. I have some really well cut MRBs that give off a huge amount of fire. I have some that are dead. Same thing with OECs. Some are winners and some just aren't. I think you have to find a vendor (or two or three) that you trust and communicate your budget and desires.

The search has been pretty fun so far and I've been fortunate in that most vendors have been friendly and not pushy!

I may end up ordering a few diamonds to view at home. I think what's frustrating is that unlike MBs, there are no real metrics I can use to weed out diamonds (I.e. HCA, ASET). For instance, the DZ diamond linked above is an ideal cut, but I have no idea what makes that ideal and the others not. At this rate, I may end up picking a diamond based on which one I think sparkles the most.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
iluvshinythings|1444313835|3936265 said:
I envy your quest! When I was looking for my OEC I had so much fun. You have the benefit of a few vendors to see in person. I did it all blindly online and still found a beauty. Thank goodness for great guidance from Grace and Erica.

I've heard that Adam at OWD isn't a computer guy. I think you should give him a call and see what he can suggest. I've seen some knockouts from other PSers that came from him.

I bought a trannie from Ilya and Nick at DZ and they pointed me in the right direction. I like their selection and prices a lot. Is there any way you can have them ship you your top picks and return the one you don't want?

As far as the jeweler telling you that there isn't as much fire from an OEC as a RB, I guess that's a matter of personal taste. My guess is that he doesn't have any OECs to sell you but that's just my opinion and I'm grouchy today. I have some really well cut MRBs that give off a huge amount of fire. I have some that are dead. Same thing with OECs. Some are winners and some just aren't. I think you have to find a vendor (or two or three) that you trust and communicate your budget and desires.

The search has been pretty fun so far and I've been fortunate in that most vendors have been friendly and not pushy!

I may end up ordering a few diamonds to view at home. I think what's frustrating is that unlike MBs, there are no real metrics I can use to weed out diamonds (I.e. HCA, ASET). For instance, the DZ diamond linked above is an ideal cut, but I have no idea what makes that ideal and the others not. At this rate, I may end up picking a diamond based on which one I think sparkles the most!
 

SunnyDelta

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
57
I don’t know what DZ means by “ideal” cut, because I don’t see that term used on the EGL grading certificate attached to the diamond he refers to as “ideal” . Also, I don’t know what the definition of that term could mean in reference to an OEC. Maybe someone else can clarify….

If you really want to go off the deep end in your quest for understanding the cut, since like you said there are not tools like HCA & ASET, I recommend the book American Cut by Al Gilbertson. It’s a very interesting book, that’s you can finish cover to cover in an afternoon or two. The evolution of the cut was not linear and like you are noticing there is not an exact set of parameters for the cut. It can be frustrating, but arguably it’s also the best part about old cuts! That no two are alike and searching for one that speaks to you is like a treasure hunt!
 

SunnyDelta

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
57
There is a very pretty "One Carat Transitional cut diamond ring" under preloved PS jewels.
May already be sold though....
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
11,873
Niel|1444186121|3935645 said:
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.

Niel - can you elaborate on this pls? I was thinking of going with GOG for a stone, but would like to hear your opinion on this; I had thought you bought your marquise from them?

I appreciate any opinion on this - many thanks.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
mrs-blop|1444322702|3936313 said:
Niel|1444186121|3935645 said:
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.

Niel - can you elaborate on this pls? I was thinking of going with GOG for a stone, but would like to hear your opinion on this; I had thought you bought your marquise from them?

I appreciate any opinion on this - many thanks.


I stumbled into that marquise. They had it, and I had a gift card for a "PS vendor"

Had I returned it, I would have had to pay shipping and a restocking fee.

I just think that unless you are sure you're buying from them, don't give them a non refundable 100
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
11,873
Niel|1444324620|3936324 said:
mrs-blop|1444322702|3936313 said:
Niel|1444186121|3935645 said:
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.

Niel - can you elaborate on this pls? I was thinking of going with GOG for a stone, but would like to hear your opinion on this; I had thought you bought your marquise from them?

I appreciate any opinion on this - many thanks.


I stumbled into that marquise. They had it, and I had a gift card for a "PS vendor"

Had I returned it, I would have had to pay shipping and a restocking fee.

I just think that unless you are sure you're buying from them, don't give them a non refundable 100

Got it. Thanks for the info - I didn't realize that was the case. I'm not a fan of the old 'restocking fee' charge either.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
I think one of the benefits of GOG is that they do provide ASET/IS images. Still trying to see what I can find without having to put down that $100 down payment.

I'll probably e-mail DZ back to ask them their thoughts on the three diamonds listed above. Still not quite understanding why they're classifying the first one as ideal cut even though the EGL-USA report makes no mention of the word "ideal" at all!
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
PumpkinsAreAwesome|1444356879|3936507 said:
I think one of the benefits of GOG is that they do provide ASET/IS images. Still trying to see what I can find without having to put down that $100 down payment.

I'll probably e-mail DZ back to ask them their thoughts on the three diamonds listed above. Still not quite understanding why they're classifying the first one as ideal cut even though the EGL-USA report makes no mention of the word "ideal" at all!


Idealscopes, from what I've heard from vendors, don't really tell the whole story on an old cut.

And ideal isn't a technical term for old cuts, you won't see a report that clarifies an old cut as ideal. Not that I've seen anyways. I'd love to be wrong.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
Niel|1444359411|3936517 said:
I know, I know, not a ct or even close. But such a fun and unique ring I wanted to share.


Still looking out. I'm off to bed so I can't answer some of your other questions, if they dont by the morning, ill try and chime in

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/unique-edwardian-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/id-j_913702/

Wow, that's a nifty ring! Some of the deals I've seen at consignment stores and online have been unbelievable! Unfortunately, in terms of a setting I'm looking for a simple petite band (possibly with pave), not quite the look of a typical antique ring!

Thank you for all the help so far! It's pretty crazy how much my diamond search has shifted since I joined PS! If I never joined this community, I never would have known about OECs!
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
Talked to Adam from OWD and am waiting for him to send me pictures of diamonds on Monday. I can't wait!

I also got an e-mail from Grace with JBG with recommendations. While not an OEC, this semi-round cushion really caught my eye:
http://jewelsbygrace.smugmug.com/Loose-Diamonds/100-200cts/102ct-Antique-Cushion-Cut/i-7RSWGvv/A
Unfortunately, the girdle is extremely thin and I was hoping for a slightly larger diameter. However, I'm keeping this on the table as an option because I'm worried I might not find an OEC with as much fire.

From what I've heard, Old Mine cuts and cushions have the most fire. I've spend some time on the JBG website and have noticed that her round mine cut diamonds do have a lot of fire (i.e. http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-60ct-old-mine-cut-diamond-gia-h-vs2). If my focus is maximizing fire, should I be looking at round Old Mine Cuts instead of OECs?

Oy to think that I may have to start over a third time! :wall:
 

SunnyDelta

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
57
I think it's case because basis for each individual stone. In general the proportions of old mine cuts and cushions (I.e. Relatively High crowns) May lend themselves to fire. However lots of OECs are complete fireballs and some OMC/cushions are not. I would just pick your personal favorite cut, then make sure you get a fiery one! :)
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
PumpkinsAreAwesome|1444534734|3937141 said:
Talked to Adam from OWD and am waiting for him to send me pictures of diamonds on Monday. I can't wait!

I also got an e-mail from Grace with JBG with recommendations. While not an OEC, this semi-round cushion really caught my eye:
http://jewelsbygrace.smugmug.com/Loose-Diamonds/100-200cts/102ct-Antique-Cushion-Cut/i-7RSWGvv/A
Unfortunately, the girdle is extremely thin and I was hoping for a slightly larger diameter. However, I'm keeping this on the table as an option because I'm worried I might not find an OEC with as much fire.

From what I've heard, Old Mine cuts and cushions have the most fire. I've spend some time on the JBG website and have noticed that her round mine cut diamonds do have a lot of fire (i.e. http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-60ct-old-mine-cut-diamond-gia-h-vs2). If my focus is maximizing fire, should I be looking at round Old Mine Cuts instead of OECs?

Oy to think that I may have to start over a third time! :wall:

I say based on what you're describing a round is what you're after.

Don't get down that this search may take a moment or two. A good one doesn't always drop in your lap like modern rounds do
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,341
mrs-blop|1444341670|3936427 said:
Niel|1444324620|3936324 said:
mrs-blop|1444322702|3936313 said:
Niel|1444186121|3935645 said:
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.

Niel - can you elaborate on this pls? I was thinking of going with GOG for a stone, but would like to hear your opinion on this; I had thought you bought your marquise from them?

I appreciate any opinion on this - many thanks.


I stumbled into that marquise. They had it, and I had a gift card for a "PS vendor"

Had I returned it, I would have had to pay shipping and a restocking fee.

I just think that unless you are sure you're buying from them, don't give them a non refundable 100

Got it. Thanks for the info - I didn't realize that was the case. I'm not a fan of the old 'restocking fee' charge either.

Neither would I.

I don't think Niel would purposely misrepresent our policies but for clarification this is false information. We do not and have never charged a restocking fee.


With regards to a deposit we can serve clients in one of two ways. We can forward them vendor info/pix like many others do or we can have diamonds transported to our lab to cherry pick for our clients. We ask for a one way round trip deposit for one diamond (to ensure we'll hear back from people) and we then double, triple, quadruple their investment by acquiring a selection of diamonds to cherry pick from (not to mention our time, video shooting/editing etc.). Hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
Rhino|1444576117|3937216 said:
mrs-blop|1444341670|3936427 said:
Niel|1444324620|3936324 said:
mrs-blop|1444322702|3936313 said:
Niel|1444186121|3935645 said:
I wouldn't put money down at good old gold unless you exhaust all other options.

As for fire, that's colored flight return. A lot of that is from high crowns and small tables (from my understanding) so that should lend itself to an old cut. Maybe they ment old cuts don't have as much scintillation?

I've been looking and having found anything that peaks my interest but I'm looking for you! Be interesting to see what people come back with.

Niel - can you elaborate on this pls? I was thinking of going with GOG for a stone, but would like to hear your opinion on this; I had thought you bought your marquise from them?

I appreciate any opinion on this - many thanks.


I stumbled into that marquise. They had it, and I had a gift card for a "PS vendor"

Had I returned it, I would have had to pay shipping and a restocking fee.

I just think that unless you are sure you're buying from them, don't give them a non refundable 100

Got it. Thanks for the info - I didn't realize that was the case. I'm not a fan of the old 'restocking fee' charge either.

Neither would I.

I don't think Niel would purposely misrepresent our policies but for clarification this is false information. We do not and have never charged a restocking fee.


With regards to a deposit we can serve clients in one of two ways. We can forward them vendor info/pix like many others do or we can have diamonds transported to our lab to cherry pick for our clients. We ask for a one way round trip deposit for one diamond (to ensure we'll hear back from people) and we then double, triple, quadruple their investment by acquiring a selection of diamonds to cherry pick from (not to mention our time, video shooting/editing etc.). Hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Odd as this was the exact information I was given by one of your representives over the phone when discussing returning the stone.
I'm confident this is what I was told, and certain I'm remembering the conversation correctly

You're right I don't want to misrepresent your policies. However, I'm just sharing my experience where I would have had to pay to return stone. :wavey:

Sorry for any confusion
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,341
Thanks Niel,

Yea ... we've never charged it, never will. Also if all other PS vendors do not charge for shipping on returns I'm open minded to alter that policy.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
20,061
Rhino|1444579445|3937234 said:
Thanks Niel,

Yea ... we've never charged it, never will. Also if all other PS vendors do not charge for shipping on returns I'm open minded to alter that policy.

Peace,
Rhino
I can't speak to all other vendors, I don't know who has one and who doesn't. I would say though basing your service policies on customer needs seems better than market norms.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
1,118
I can certainly confirm that not all other PS vendors offer free returns. I found the GOG policies, especially regarding upgrade, generous, so I guess if I were in the market for that level of service, I would have to weigh paying return shipping (what, $50-ish?) against an upgrade policy that doesn't require me to spend double to trade up.
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top