Help me find an asscher diamond

hersen · Jan 4, 2018

I want to propose to my partner and am looking to buy a ring. Specifically, I know my partner is keen on getting an asscher diamond - which, I have now realised, adds to the challenge of buying! I'd like to set it in a platinum solitaire ring.

What I'm aiming for:

Size: 6mm+ w/l (~1.3+ carat)
Budget: 7-10k USD for the diamond
Timeline: preferably by March
Cut: table <65%, depth <70%
Colour: H+
Clarity: VS2+

I'm based in Australia, meaning that if I buy from overseas I'd have to pay an additional 15% in duty and taxes (or 10% if I'd decide to buy a diamond only and get it set locally) and potentially making returns more challenging (as I would not get the customs fees back). However, it's potentially a lot cheaper than buying locally. I have been looking primarily at James Allen because of the imagery they provide.

Here's a few diamonds that I found - it would be great to get your opinion on these. Any feedback on my searching skills is appreciated as well - besides trawling the internet for a few days I have little experience with this!

Specific questions I have:

Is the "blackness" in an asscher diamond when looking at the table face-on considered bad?
These diamonds are all VS2+, but some have inclusions in the centre of the table - would they still be eye clean?
How likely is an H colour to show up on a platinum setting in regular light?

Bonus question:
While widening my search parameters I came across this asscher diamond. I think it looks quite good, with the only downside that it's a J colour. Would you consider this?

Matthews1127 · Jan 4, 2018

I realize F & J are quite different in terms of color, but in terms of performance, based solely on the videos, and without any other visual aid, these two are my top contenders. Clarity in the J is beautiful. Clarity in F is very good; the pinpoint inclusion against the table isn’t bad, but you know your partner better than any of us. If that won’t distract or bother, then it’s a good stone. I like how every step lights up appropriately in both diamonds.
It will be important for you to request ASET for both of these Asschers to determine true performance, and to decide which you love most. The others appear dead in the center, and that’s the last thing you want in a diamond. If you’d like me to search for you, as well, I can. Of those you posted, these are my top choices.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m=45&DepthTo=69.00&TableFrom=40&TableTo=65.00

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.90-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3976724

OoohShiny · Jan 4, 2018

Blackness in a picture of a diamond is likely to be 'obstruction', where the camera being close to the diamond reflects as black. This would translate into dark areas in real life, where your head obscures the light hitting the diamond, and would be blue on an ASETscope. Please see this post for a graphic representation:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-ideal-super-ideal.234434/page-5#post-4225921

Too much obstruction would make a diamond appear dark when looking at it head-on. IMHO these two stones you have selected would likely be too dark head-on:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2444320
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.26-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3089696
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.30-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3413597 (not too bad head-on but seems to be a dark/leaky stone from quite a few angles - @Serg may not be allowed to comment on vendor's stones but if he is, he might be able to advise on whether this stone would exhibit strong contrast between the dark areas and the facets returning light).

Likewise, in a photograph, grey areas (the same colour as the background) may indicate leakage (so you would see your finger through the stone) and a sense of dullness/lack of 'life'. I think these stones you have selected may exhibit this problem:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-2676243
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.60-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3588074
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.90-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3976724
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.34-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3592213 (head-on looks leaky to me but away from head-on is quite lively)

Leakage and obstruction means reduced light return, and you want good light return so the stone is bright - but too much of any of these three things and the stone will lack contrast (which gives good patterning and makes the bright areas look brighter) and potentially be an all-on/all-off stone, where the facets don't sparkle in turn but are all bright and then all dark together, which reduces the 'character' and 'life' of the stone.

They are very hard to shop for, there are not many really good ones out there. It is also personal taste as to whether you like the look of a few chunky facets or the effect of thinner, narrower facets - for me, I like the latter.

Of the ones you posted, I prefer this one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341
Very bright and active faceting across the stone from nearly all angles, only slightly lacking contrast head-on but the obstruction/contrast patterns create interest face-on. Definitely not an all-on/all-off stone.

You should check out Yoram's asschers / square Emeralds:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-from-gemconcepts-code-name-mildred.236249/
http://gemconcepts.net/shop2/asscher-cut-diamonds-pair/
http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/pair-slightly-elongated-asscher-cut-diamonds/
http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/2-52-carat-asscher-cut-diamond-of-first-water/
http://gemconcepts.net/old-emerald-cut-diamond/

and should also consider the Octavia:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-30ct-octavia-on-a-gelin-abaci-tension-setting.210548/
http://gemconcepts.net/octavia-diamond/
http://gemconcepts.net/shop2/special-octavia-cut-diamond/

OoohShiny · Jan 4, 2018

Matthews1127 said:
I realize F & J are quite different in terms of color, but in terms of performance, based solely on the videos, and without any other visual aid, these two are my top contenders. Clarity in the J is beautiful. Clarity in F is very good; the pinpoint inclusion against the table isn’t bad, but you know your partner better than any of us. If that won’t distract or bother, then it’s a good stone. I like how every step lights up appropriately in both diamonds.
It will be important for you to request ASET for both of these Asschers to determine true performance, and to decide which you love most. The others appear dead in the center, and that’s the last thing you want in a diamond. If you’d like me to search for you, as well, I can. Of those you posted, these are my top choices.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m=45&DepthTo=69.00&TableFrom=40&TableTo=65.00

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.90-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3976724

Not sure that first link works! If it's the F referred to at the start of the post, though, then it must be my preferred stone too, as it's the only F in the available choices

Matthews1127 · Jan 4, 2018

OoohShiny said:
Blackness in a picture of a diamond is likely to be 'obstruction', where the camera being close to the diamond reflects as black. This would translate into dark areas in real life, where your head obscures the light hitting the diamond, and would be blue on an ASETscope. Please see this post for a graphic representation:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-ideal-super-ideal.234434/page-5#post-4225921

Too much obstruction would make a diamond appear dark when looking at it head-on. IMHO these two stones you have selected would likely be too dark head-on:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2444320
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.26-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3089696
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.30-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3413597 (not too bad head-on but seems to be a dark/leaky stone from quite a few angles - @Serg may not be allowed to comment on vendor's stones but if he is, he might be able to advise on whether this stone would exhibit strong contrast between the dark areas and the facets returning light).

Likewise, in a photograph, grey areas (the same colour as the background) may indicate leakage (so you would see your finger through the stone) and a sense of dullness/lack of 'life'. I think these stones you have selected may exhibit this problem:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-2676243
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.60-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3588074
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.90-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3976724
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.34-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3592213 (head-on looks leaky to me but away from head-on is quite lively)

Leakage and obstruction means reduced light return, and you want good light return so the stone is bright - but too much of any of these three things and the stone will lack contrast (which gives good patterning and makes the bright areas look brighter) and potentially be an all-on/all-off stone, where the facets don't sparkle in turn but are all bright and then all dark together, which reduces the 'character' and 'life' of the stone.

They are very hard to shop for, there are not many really good ones out there. It is also personal taste as to whether you like the look of a few chunky facets or the effect of thinner, narrower facets - for me, I like the latter.

Of the ones you posted, I prefer this one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341
Very bright and active faceting across the stone from nearly all angles, only slightly lacking contrast head-on but the obstruction/contrast patterns create interest face-on. Definitely not an all-on/all-off stone.

You should check out Yoram's asschers / square Emeralds:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-from-gemconcepts-code-name-mildred.236249/
http://gemconcepts.net/shop2/asscher-cut-diamonds-pair/
http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/pair-slightly-elongated-asscher-cut-diamonds/
http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/2-52-carat-asscher-cut-diamond-of-first-water/
http://gemconcepts.net/old-emerald-cut-diamond/

and should also consider the Octavia:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-30ct-octavia-on-a-gelin-abaci-tension-setting.210548/
http://gemconcepts.net/octavia-diamond/
http://gemconcepts.net/shop2/special-octavia-cut-diamond/

You read my mind, @OoohShiny!! I second the referral out to Yoram!! Unsurpassed step Cuts!!

Matthews1127 · Jan 4, 2018

OoohShiny said:
Not sure that first link works!

I’ll fix it!!! Thank you!!

Matthews1127 · Jan 4, 2018

It’s the 1.45FVS2:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341

1.90JVS1:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/1.90-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3976724

OoohShiny · Jan 4, 2018

This thread I found really useful in terms of assessing Asschers:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/seeking-an-asscher-feedback-please.232466/

Good Old Gold are also very good at finding great looking stones, including Asschers and Octavias:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search

They don't appear to have much in stock but check out their YouTube channel for previous stones they've found - they tend to call in stones as and when required, rather than holding a lot of stock

Matthews1127 · Jan 4, 2018

OoohShiny said:
This thread I found really useful in terms of assessing Asschers:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/seeking-an-asscher-feedback-please.232466/

I believe ASET on the JA Asschers is necessary to see the light performance, and ensure there is no leakage, and lack of contrast where the diamond will dull in certain areas that may not be seen in video.
@OoohShiny & I both agree: your best JA Asscher is the 1.45FVS2. Comparing that to Yoram’s Asschers and the Octavia is like comparing the moon to the sun!! Once you experience Yoram’s Stones, and the Octavia, there’s no turning back! He’s truly amazing, and worth a quick email to ask if he can help. I believe you won’t be disappointed.

valeria101 · Jan 4, 2018

hersen said:
Is the "blackness" in an asscher diamond when looking at the table face-on considered bad?

These diamonds are all VS2+, but some have inclusions in the centre of the table - would they still be eye clean?

How likely is an H colour to show up on a platinum setting in regular light?

Bonus question:
...

Q1. [Oops or the Long rant !] Parts of diamonds appear black if they are shaded - which happens when seen or photographed from too close up. Not many people seem to appreciate diamonds blinking dark this way, so you wouldn't want a stone that does too much & too often ... The ASET marks facets prone to 'going dark' in blue. I think - based on too few examples that the videos at James Allen show MORE parts of diamonds BLACK than the ASET does, because of some detail or other of photographic conditions * ... I'd rather go with the ASET: red is good, blue-black patches would be very bright seen from a few meters away, but not up-close ... diamodns with much of it would be nice fromaccross the room & dissapoint if the light is not right ... Not sure I would find this annoying or playful, but such object must be an acquired taste, so to spek. IHMO ....

Q2. Yes. I can't see specs of dust either & those inclusions are smaller than the dot on the 'i' in run of the mill print ... I LOVE looking at inclusions in those videos - they are much better than a microscope (no need to focus, KWIM).

Q3. H, I cannot tell ,-) J, maybe, perhaps I'd see a little somhing in some light; perhaps more from the side, where brilliance does not wash out the very faint tint.

Bonus. Q The video makes me think that this diamond is not the brightest crayon in the box (relatively duller rim under the table & rather wide). An ASET might prove me wrong.

2c

_____
* There is a thread showing a silly case, in which a stone appears almost entirely black in the videos, turned out to be a bright charmer, with the ASET mostly red (title is 'Talk me out of ...' - I cannot search right now) .

valeria101 · Jan 4, 2018

Matthews1127 said:
@OoohShiny & I both agree: your best JA Asscher is the 1.45FVS2.

+1

OoohShiny · Jan 4, 2018

valeria101 said:
blue-black patches would be very bright seen from a few meters away, but not up-close ... diamodns with much of it would be nice fromaccross the room & dissapoint if the light is not right ...

This is what crossed my mind when posting but I forgot to write it down...

lol

tyty333 · Jan 4, 2018

The only one I like from the original set is the F 1.45.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341

whitewave · Jan 4, 2018

tyty333 said:
The only one I like from the original set is the F 1.45.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341

I agree but I'd want to assess leakage

JmeeMrie · Jan 4, 2018

Bonus Q: The J' s under the table facets look "fuzzy" not crisp for me .

I do like the added size value you can get from getting a lower color if you don't mind or even like warmer stones though. Just not that one. Maybe a better cut J or I would be a great value..

hersen · Jan 5, 2018

Thanks everyone for your commentary, it's much appreciated. I especially like reading your reasons for liking / not liking some of the diamonds - I'm learning a lot here!

Sounds like, out of the original list, most people prefer the F:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.45-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-4242341

Based on the comments on obstruction and leakage, and by expanding the search to I and J, I found two other diamonds that (I hope!) look interesting - would be great to hear what you think:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3632645
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.52-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3762107

As for Octavia's and Yoram's asschers - I came across them earlier and they look amazing, but I understand they'll also come at a premium. At this stage and with my budget, I'd be more interested in a slightly larger stone.

@Matthews1127, if you're willing to help look for an asscher, I won't turn that down!

Edit: forgot to mention - I've noted that I need to get ASETs done as well.

OoohShiny · Jan 5, 2018

Is it me or does the 1.51 have some windowing at an angle - just after the table glare disappears as it rotates away from the camera?

Both have decent faceting/contrast/obstruction patterns, though, and both are quite lively. Given the above, I'd probably pick the 1.52 out of those two.

That said, the 1.51 does appear to perform better head-on...

Decisions!

(Shopping for asschers is so hard!)

JmeeMrie · Jan 5, 2018

Out of those two I like the 1.52 more the pattern is more pleasing, but it is less perfectly square if that matters to you.
I also like this 1.52 better than the F as well.

valeria101 · Jan 5, 2018

The H is exactly the same size as the F - 6.2 mm. The I is slightly larger inasmuch as not precisely square 6.2 X 6.4 - very small difference ...

I seems subtly brighter than the F, but ... Would love to see the ASETS of these two !

If GemConcepts has anything reasonably comparable, I'd expect allot of presence from their stones - compensating .2 mm, oir sure.

hersen · Jan 9, 2018

Thanks all - and sorry for not responding earlier, I've been pretty busy lately, slowing the search down a bit!

So there were 3 asschers I was looking at:

The 1.52 I that looked quite promising has been sold (I snooze, I lose...)
An ASET can only be provided for 1.45 F if I purchase the diamond, but that's a bit risky considering I'm abroad and returning it would be quite expensive (would you buy a diamond without seeing an ASET?)
An ASET would be available for 1.51 H, but you all seemed less convinced - plus I'd like to have something to compare it with!

So I've done a bit more searching, and was wondering what you think about the following (in addition to the H above):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-2676243
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.55-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3979272
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.60-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3588074

I was also particularly wondering if the first two would be eye clean.

Also, any suggestions around a lower price mark would be welcome... I seem to have more success around the 9k mark (unsurprisingly!)

MarionC · Jan 9, 2018

If i had to pick one of the three it would definitely be the 1.50 H vvs2

OoohShiny · Jan 9, 2018

I don't like the inclusion in the middle of the table in the VS2 (but then I'm a clarity-freak

lol).

I would agree with Jimmianne - the 1.50 H VVS2 performs the best out of those three (especially head-on), but I would caveat that comment with the fact that it's not very 'lively' in the centre when moving. I think @Karl_K once said about how diamonds can be cut for short-flash scintillation and long-flash scintillation, so it might be that this stone is cut more for the latter (although my understanding is weak on this point!).

I think there are/should/must be better options out there! but the 1.50 is not bad.

JmeeMrie · Jan 9, 2018

Out of those 3 I'd pick the 1.50

JmeeMrie · Jan 9, 2018

I was looking through James Allen . I found this... it's an I color, but it flashes beautifully.
And it's a little larger than some of the other ones you were looking at
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/1.79-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3296227

OoohShiny · Jan 9, 2018

JmeeMrie said:
I was looking through James Allen . I found this... it's an I color, but it flashes beautifully.
And it's a little larger than some of the other ones you were looking at
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/1.79-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3296227

I like it - chunky faceting and good contrast in the middle. The windmills stand out nicely when the rest of the centre is darker from obstruction

scarsmum · Jan 9, 2018

I have to ask; have you seen the 1.64 in the other asscher thread?

JmeeMrie · Jan 9, 2018

scarsmum said:
I have to ask; have you seen the 1.64 in the other asscher thread?

I was thinking the same.. the other guy doesn't seem to be impressed but it's been my favorite.. think it was a little out of budget which is why I hadn't suggested it yet

hersen · Jan 9, 2018

I'm liking the 1.79, it's a colour lower but looks great and I like the increased size.

I've been keeping half an eye on the other asscher thread - interesting to read about the search there but I do feel it's out of my budget. That said the 1.64 looks quite amazing.

Decisions, decisions! I kind of want to make a purchase to ease my mind, yet I don't want to jump the gun and buy something that might not be the best in my price range. Should I get an ASET on the 1.79 and 1.50 or would you rather wait and see if there's more out there? Conscious of the 3 free ASET limit with JA as well.

JmeeMrie · Jan 9, 2018

Im glad you like it!

The color is a good compromise. My asscher is an I color as well. It returns bright white light. It's definitely a personal taste thing but I say mine in person before we bought it.
I think those two would be great to get asets on. It's a personal taste thing, so take advice but also go with what pleases your eyes. You could always wait, and there will always be more but you never know if there will be better at your budget.

foxinsox · Jan 9, 2018

I’d get ASETs on the 1.79, 1.50 and the1.64

(the 1.64 is only just out of your price range and it doesn’t hurt to know what you’re looking at)
how are you planning to set it?

Help me find an asscher diamond

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