shape
carat
color
clarity

Help me decide (again) please?

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
As discussed in my last thread, I ordered the BGD Blue 2 carat H SI1 diamond, and I just picked it up from FedEx today. It is definitely sparkly, but I'm kind of worried about the color. I can also spot at least one of the inclusion pretty easily, but maybe that's because I studied the magnified photos so much on the website. In any case, my girlfriend went to see some diamonds, which I later found out to be GIA cert'ed "very good" cuts, and she decided that she didn't really like anything bigger than 2 carats, that in particular she like the size of a 1.8 stone that she saw, and that while an H stone looked good to her, an I or J was a no-go, and that she liked the icyness of an F color stone. So now I'm wondering.... Would I be better off finding a 1.7-1.8 carat F color stone? A 2 carat would be out of the budget for sure, and even a lot of 1.7-1.8 ideal cuts are quite pricey in the colorless range. I wanted to spend about $20k with the possibility to go up to $25k, but would really rather not, although these price increases are really frustrating in that respect! :-/

In any case, I'm open to suggestions or thoughts, and specifically I'd be intersted in your thoughts on this diamond, which I just put on hold at a different vendor (but no idealscope, aset, etc.) for close to the same price as my BGD stone (actually just a tad less). It looks promising even though it's not an AGS000, and while it's smaller (about 7.8mm vs 8.1mm), I get two shades better color and VS2 clarity. No hearts and arrows type symmetry promised, and no flouresence, but neither of those really mattered to me. I just want a really good cut for light performance. What do you think?

1.732 carat F VS2
HCA Score 0.9 EX
AGS 01040405910006
7.77x7.81x4.76mm
AGS cut grade: Excellent 1 (light performance 1, polish 0, symmetry 0)
Table: 53.6
Depth: 61.1
Crown: 32.5
Pavilion: 40.9
Flour: Negligible
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,873
I'm not an expert on the #s, but if your gf has commented that she prefers the iciness of an F over the warmer tones of an I/J, I might consider going with this stone as opposed to the 2ct Brian Gavin blue. The visual difference in size is fairly small. I'll be curious to hear what some of the experts have to say....
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
The more I look at the 2ct BGD Blue, the more I like it... Really white face up. I'm not sure that she would be able to tell the difference without having a colorless next to it, and despite what she said recently, I know that the size is still a factor (e.g., bragging rights to friends--2ct sounds more impressive). But, I'm still worried it doesn't have that "iciness" of an F. I'm torn!

Anyone else have any thoughts on:

2ct AGS000 H SI1

vs.

1.73ct AGS100 F VS2
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,298
32.5/40.9 outside ID range on proportion charts http://agslab.com/pbcg/AGSL_Proportion_Charts.pdf

You have the BGD still, right? Take it in and compare the two side by side in a variety of lights, see if one consistently speaks to you more than the other. The proportions on the F indicate it will be a spectacularly *bright* stone - so you get the iciness of the F plus tons of white light return, but you will likely see less coloured light output in some lighting types compared to the BGD

BGD does not promise H&A in Blue line either, so that's not a consideration, and AGS does not consider any optical symmetry hearts and arrows patterning evaluation in cut grade determination. Also to inquire about - vendor policies wrt upgrade/buyback/trade-in..
 

dreamingoftacori

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
87
If it was for me, I'd take the F VS over and over again. I favor higher colors and an si1 isn't "mind clean" enough for me. My sweet spot is f/g vs1. I'd sacrifice size to get it too.

I'm by no means an expert. But as a girl, she asked and said she preferred icy white F and 1.8 carat size. You have that available so why would you get something in a size she said she didn't want and in a color she was just "ok" with, but the F was enough for her to remember it. You also don't know her comfort with flouresence in the H.

I might also be a little upset if my fiance purchased a stone larger than i was comfortable with and in a color lower than what i said i preferred just to get the size that i didnt even want. I would take it as him not listening to what I want. Know what I mean? She has stated her preference so go with what she said she wants! And you also said it's slightly cheaper so it's a win win. Put the extra money into a beautiful setting for her.
 

Sparkly_Not_Gaudy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
80
dreamingoftacori|1307027749|2936219 said:
If it was for me, I'd take the F VS over and over again. I favor higher colors and an si1 isn't "mind clean" enough for me. My sweet spot is f/g vs1. I'd sacrifice size to get it too.

I'm by no means an expert. But as a girl, she asked and said she preferred icy white F and 1.8 carat size. You have that available so why would you get something in a size she said she didn't want and in a color she was just "ok" with, but the F was enough for her to remember it. You also don't know her comfort with flouresence in the H.

I might also be a little upset if my fiance purchased a stone larger than i was comfortable with and in a color lower than what i said i preferred just to get the size that i didnt even want. I would take it as him not listening to what I want. Know what I mean? She has stated her preference so go with what she said she wants! And you also said it's slightly cheaper so it's a win win. Put the extra money into a beautiful setting for her.
I agree. Being heard on your engagement ring is very important. I personally won't own a diamond of less than G myself, so I understand where she is coming from on the ice factor. 'Warm' is nothing I want used to describe a diamond!
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Ok, so maybe I should clarify. All along, she's been saying sparkle and size, and preferably nothing smaller than 2 carats, which is why I was surprised when more recently she said she didn't want more than 2 carats... BUT, the one she saw was the F color AND it had an 8mm spread, which is closer to my 2ct than the 1.73ct above.

As for color, I've also gotten mixed messages, as when we previously looked together she saw an EGL H that she like a lot (and told me that size and cut quality mattered more to her), and now she is saying that she has a preference for the GIA F color (but not at the expense of the sparkle factor). This may have been because she previously looked at diamonds primarly face up but I think she was shown these stones face down against a white background to highlight the color difference.

At no point has she indicated that she cares about clarity whatsoever in relation to the other factors.

So really, it's about whether I should sacrifice cut and size to get the color...

OR----does anyone think that the cut will be nearly as good on this 1.73??? (or something else to suggest?)

Yssie, thanks for your input. It sounds like you think this will be a brilliant stone at the expense of some fire? I'm actually thinking she would probably like that tradeoff. Anyone else agree?

Thanks again everyone for all your help!!!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
hmm...this is tough. With price increases you would have to go much smaller to get a F color. I guess you have to weigh what she cares about more...size or color? If the 1.73 is local I would take the BGD with you and look at it like yssie suggested.

The good thing about BGD is that if she really wanted a smaller F you would have 95% trade in.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,794
Can you involve her a little more in the decision-making at all? It sounds like this is not an utter surprise. Can you show her the BGD stone? Maybe in some cute or romantic way?

It sounds to me that she is actually open to lots of different things and she likes a few different types of stones. And maybe is not totally clear on what she wants anyways ;))

The F VS2 that you talked about it probably a decent stone. Is it a perfecto mundo super super stone? maybe not. But it is still well cut and a nice high color and clarity. It would not be a dog. Can you get an idealscope?

My gut says to trust your gut and propose with the BGD stone *soon*! Then after the glow of proposal has passed let her know that if she wants, you are 100% happy to trade in the BGD stone or return it for something else she would like more.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,347
Didnt read all the post but I would give her the blue H and see if she likes it...especially since you already have it in your
position. You also might mention DSS (Diamond shrinkage syndrome). It starts kicking in after 6 months (give or take)
and you get used to having the stone.

If she doesnt like...send it back.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,298
dmd4ever|1307035626|2936292 said:
Ok, so maybe I should clarify. All along, she's been saying sparkle and size, and preferably nothing smaller than 2 carats, which is why I was surprised when more recently she said she didn't want more than 2 carats... BUT, the one she saw was the F color AND it had an 8mm spread, which is closer to my 2ct than the 1.73ct above.

As for color, I've also gotten mixed messages, as when we previously looked together she saw an EGL H that she like a lot (and told me that size and cut quality mattered more to her), and now she is saying that she has a preference for the GIA F color (but not at the expense of the sparkle factor). This may have been because she previously looked at diamonds primarly face up but I think she was shown these stones face down against a white background to highlight the color difference.

At no point has she indicated that she cares about clarity whatsoever in relation to the other factors.

So really, it's about whether I should sacrifice cut and size to get the color...

OR----does anyone think that the cut will be nearly as good on this 1.73??? (or something else to suggest?)

Yssie, thanks for your input. It sounds like you think this will be a brilliant stone at the expense of some fire? I'm actually thinking she would probably like that tradeoff. Anyone else agree?

Thanks again everyone for all your help!!!

Yes - I think you will find that. It's personal preference - we have definitely had others looking for precisely that balance before, and there are others still who don't give a hoot about white light and just want colour!

I think it's definitely worth serious consideration (or better conversation!) It is an F (she wants higher colour - proportions as you say might be right up her alley!), it is a VS2 (mind clean for you), it is nicely proportioned and ASET simulation looks fine, it's not much smaller in diametre, and it's cheaper. Quintfecta :cheeky:
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Yssie|1307047695|2936422 said:
Yes - I think you will find that. It's personal preference - we have definitely had others looking for precisely that balance before, and there are others still who don't give a hoot about white light and just want colour!

I think it's definitely worth serious consideration (or better conversation!) It is an F (she wants higher colour - proportions as you say might be right up her alley!), it is a VS2 (mind clean for you), it is nicely proportioned and ASET simulation looks fine, it's not much smaller in diametre, and it's cheaper. Quintfecta :cheeky:

Should I be worried about the small table and low crown angles? Looking through PS postings it seems that a lot of people are told to stay away? It has a good HCA score and gets a 1 for light performance from AGS.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,794
dmd4ever|1307052605|2936461 said:
Yssie|1307047695|2936422 said:
Yes - I think you will find that. It's personal preference - we have definitely had others looking for precisely that balance before, and there are others still who don't give a hoot about white light and just want colour!

I think it's definitely worth serious consideration (or better conversation!) It is an F (she wants higher colour - proportions as you say might be right up her alley!), it is a VS2 (mind clean for you), it is nicely proportioned and ASET simulation looks fine, it's not much smaller in diametre, and it's cheaper. Quintfecta :cheeky:

Should I be worried about the small table and low crown angles? Looking through PS postings it seems that a lot of people are told to stay away? It has a good HCA score and gets a 1 for light performance from AGS.

Not a worry per se, but see it in person and compare.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,298
Dreamer_D|1307057119|2936512 said:
dmd4ever|1307052605|2936461 said:
Yssie|1307047695|2936422 said:
Yes - I think you will find that. It's personal preference - we have definitely had others looking for precisely that balance before, and there are others still who don't give a hoot about white light and just want colour!

I think it's definitely worth serious consideration (or better conversation!) It is an F (she wants higher colour - proportions as you say might be right up her alley!), it is a VS2 (mind clean for you), it is nicely proportioned and ASET simulation looks fine, it's not much smaller in diametre, and it's cheaper. Quintfecta :cheeky:

Should I be worried about the small table and low crown angles? Looking through PS postings it seems that a lot of people are told to stay away? It has a good HCA score and gets a 1 for light performance from AGS.


Not a worry per se, but see it in person and compare.


Yes - that's what all the babbling about personal preferences is about. The proportions on your stone indicate lots of white light return probably at the expense of fire - if you prefer coloured light then yes, that is cause for worry! If you prefer white light it's a great fit.

In this case I would not worry about the AGS1 light performance grade - fails to meet AGS0 range in the proportion combination charts, but simulated light performance map is fine. I linked the chart in an earlier post.
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Thanks again everyone for the input! What a crazy journey this has been, starting last year, put on hold, and now I've gone from looking at a 2.5ct J SI1 to considering a 1.73ct F VS2... The 1.73 is not local, but was listed with a few of the online vendors that get less attention here. I put the stone on hold with Abazias, and they're shipping it to a local appraiser so I can see the diamonds side by side in person. Abazias does not have an upgrade program, but to be honest I'm not sure that's a dealbreaker for my ER purchase.

Hopefully seeing them together next Wednesday will give me some insight, but in any case, this website and everyone here has been so helpful and no matter what happens with this diamond I know I'm in good shape because at least the 2ct BGD Blue is just beautiful! :)

EDIT: For those who suggested getting my gf more involved or offering to change the stone after proposing, my dilemma is that she has already given more input that she wanted to give, she really wants it to be a surprise, and she wants the ring I propose with to be the final product (and it will likely be custom). I'm not planning to propose until the end of the year, but thought I'd lock down a stone given the rapid escalation in prices... :(
 
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