Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Help me choose between 2 diamonds! Square Cushion H&A!

R

realtanu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
72
I have in my possession (lucky me) two square cushion h&A

Stone 1:
===========================
1.51 carat / G / SI1
AGS report: Cut/Performance/Polish/Symmetry all ideal
I have ASET image from AGS report
Vendor assures there are no black inclusions
Plot shows some multiple, tiny inclusions in the center of stone [although I'm reassured very eye clean]
I am trying to see if there is a local appraiser to provide imagery on this stone to supplement the AGS report

**Links removed by moderator. Please upload images to forum directly to comply with forum policies**


Stone 2:
===========================
1.55 carat / F / VS2
GIA report: Polish: excellent, Symmetry: very good, comments: "surface graining is not shown"
Imagery provided by vendor (ASET, DiamXray, etc.)
Plot shows some crystals on edges of one side, with some other edges I believe being included [location of inclusions superior]

**Link removed by moderator**


Pricing
===========================
Stone 2 is call it 25% more expensive than Stone 1 [I'm masking this to protect vendors]. So a meanginful amount of money for me. I believe both vendors have given me their best price.

Other
===========================
Stone 2 comes from a vendor who deals a lot of volume in these stones
I am creating an "heirloom" type ring with Leon Mege doing the setting in platinum.
 
realtanu said:
I have in my possession (lucky me) two square cushion h&A

Stone 1:
===========================
1.51 carat / G / SI1
AGS report: Cut/Performance/Polish/Symmetry all ideal
I have ASET image from AGS report
Vendor assures there are no black inclusions
Plot shows some multiple, tiny inclusions in the center of stone [although I'm reassured very eye clean]
I am trying to see if there is a local appraiser to provide imagery on this stone to supplement the AGS report

**Link removed by moderator**


Stone 2:
===========================
1.55 carat / F / VS2
GIA report: Polish: excellent, Symmetry: very good, comments: "surface graining is not shown"
Imagery provided by vendor (ASET, DiamXray, etc.)
Plot shows some crystals on edges of one side, with some other edges I believe being included [location of inclusions superior]

**Link removed by moderator**


Pricing
===========================
Stone 2 is call it 25% more expensive than Stone 1 [I'm masking this to protect vendors]. So a meanginful amount of money for me. I believe both vendors have given me their best price.

Other
===========================
Stone 2 comes from a vendor who deals a lot of volume in these stones
I am creating an "heirloom" type ring with Leon Mege doing the setting in platinum.
Click to expand...

We are a full disclosure consumer forum so the need to protect vendors is not necessary I'd be interested to know who vendor 1 was.
The second one is GOG the ASET image confirms it. You should post links to the vendor's website directly, outside links like Photobucket are not allowed on PS to reduce the number of dead links.

There are differences to computer generated and photographed ASET images, with a good setup I prefer the photographed ones.
I would have asked for a .srn file or a photographed image from vendor 1. Do you have the AGS report number for stone 1 I would just check if the stone is indeed being offered from the same supplier which I think it is.

You have to decide if 5 points, one higher color grade and one higher clarity grade is worth 25% more to you.
You have to decide if lifetime buyback and upgrade policies are important to you as well.

If it was me I'd send them to a local appraisor near you, view in person check if the SI1 is eye clean to your standards, check the color of the two side by side and alone in different lighting etc. There is a small price jump from Near Colorless to Colorless and from SI to VS clarity. I will assume but won't confirm unless I look at the cert that both are cut similarly.
 
Both are indeed from the same cutter... there is only one who makes Square Cushion H&A to my knowledge. One is 72% depth G/SI1/white crystal inclusions in center, while the other is 74% depth F/VS2/inclusions on edges -- at approximately same carat weight. The F/VS2 is more ideally square.

It seems really a debate on F/VS2 vs. G/SI1, and how much premium to put on the F/VS2. I get advice all over the place. So far it seems folks not in the trade suggest going with G/SI1, while folks in the trade suggest going with F/VS2 ("its the better stone", "a better investment over longterm").

I didn't want to reveal vendors -yet- as I was still considering stones from both vendors. 1 vendor does not have imagery of the stone online (no sarins etc.).. comes with stone + certificate. Both vendors have liftime policies but Vendor 2 has a better overall policy.
 
Going to bring both to an appraiser tomorrow. I've been assured the SI1 is eye-clean without black inclusions.

How do I decide about F/VS2 vs. G/SI1? The $ is important to me, but I am a person who focuses on i) quality, and ii) making the ring an heirloom (the only way to get the $ worth). But I don't make enough money to toss around thousands of dollars. Going with the Leon setting is expensive as well. The different in price of stones is enough to help pay for a Leon setting for example (or another side-present along with the engagement ring).

So far I have 2 folks, in the business, who say go with F/VS2 because it holds value better and is the better stone. Plus the F/VS2 has a hair more square shape with inclusions on edges. And then I have others who say you can't tell difference between G/F, and if SI inclusions are not black, you are paying up for 25% of color you can't tell difference between.

I tend to agree with both...
 
I wouldn't go with what holds value better...you're not buying this as an investment. You have them in your possession? then I would pick the one you like better.

Personally I would go for the G SI1 but if I had both I would scrutinize and make sure I couldn't find the inclusions.

Also congrats on picking the square cushion H&A...I have one and I can't stop staring at it :)
 
Higher color and clarity does not make a better stone.

I'd go with the G SI1. That's $$ in your wallet!
 
realtanu said:
Going to bring both to an appraiser tomorrow. I've been assured the SI1 is eye-clean without black inclusions.

How do I decide about F/VS2 vs. G/SI1? The $ is important to me, but I am a person who focuses on i) quality, and ii) making the ring an heirloom (the only way to get the $ worth). But I don't make enough money to toss around thousands of dollars. Going with the Leon setting is expensive as well. The different in price of stones is enough to help pay for a Leon setting for example (or another side-present along with the engagement ring).

So far I have 2 folks, in the business, who say go with F/VS2 because it holds value better and is the better stone. Plus the F/VS2 has a hair more square shape with inclusions on edges. And then I have others who say you can't tell difference between G/F, and if SI inclusions are not black, you are paying up for 25% of color you can't tell difference between.

I tend to agree with both...
Click to expand...

You aren't wearing the grading paper and I hope you aren't buying it for future resale. However, some people are color and clarity sensitive or this is more of a mind clean issue to them and that is a prefectly valid opinion and purchase criteria. I am glad you get to see both side by side, be sure to see them under the table in natural light, in office light etc. Also you should also view them apart from one another and from farther away to see if you can notice the differences as readily.

Please do tell us after your decision is made who vendor 1 was, I am interested to know of any other online vendor in North America who offers the SCHA.
 
ditto I am also curious!
 
More B&M than online. I will indeed post, but I just don't think it makes 100% until I've decided on a diamond 100%. Re the second store, I had asked them to find cushion brilliant, and explained to them what I was going after Novo-type.. and they instead sourced the SCHA. I though he was being loose with words, but when I saw the facets I realized it was indeed SCHA. Priced fairly as well, but nothing like GOG in terms of imagery/analysis. I think they would run more analysis but said would take time and potentially $, which they didn't want to do since I was i) short on time, and ii) hounding them on price. For example, I have nothing to link to online for this stone.

Going to appraiser today. Both of these stones are great.. still don't know which it will be..
 
If eye-clean go with the G/SI1. G is a nice color and if you cant see anything...then you cant see anything. Use
the saved money on the setting. My two cents.
 
realtanu said:
More B&M than online. I will indeed post, but I just don't think it makes 100% until I've decided on a diamond 100%. Re the second store, I had asked them to find cushion brilliant, and explained to them what I was going after Novo-type.. and they instead sourced the SCHA. I though he was being loose with words, but when I saw the facets I realized it was indeed SCHA. Priced fairly as well, but nothing like GOG in terms of imagery/analysis. I think they would run more analysis but said would take time and potentially $, which they didn't want to do since I was i) short on time, and ii) hounding them on price. For example, I have nothing to link to online for this stone.

Going to appraiser today. Both of these stones are great.. still don't know which it will be..
Click to expand...

Are you by any chance near San Carlos, California ;))

I think the novo can be achieved from two different types of cushions other than the original Tiffany's.

Here is a video with two 1 ct examples in the same lighting. The right one is significantly cheaper per carat than the SCHA.

Video

But they both have distinctly different light return signatures.
 
realtanu are you referring to the store in San Carlos? I bought (well my FI did) a SCHA from them. I would have bought from GOG but their price was better and I felt comfortable enough getting an AGS0 stone. Also I think they are sourced from the same cutting facility in the northeast. I later got an ASET and hearts image of the stone and it checks out. it is beautiful!
 
The second store was Geoffrey's Diamonds & Goldsmith, indeed in San Carlos. My salesperson was Nikko Kandhari. I have only favorable things to say about him (no B.S., worked fast), but will do so in another post when I sum up the whole process for benefit of the board. I decided to go with the F/VS2. So Nikko is getting the G/SI1 back (in transit). The G/SI1 was very strong and I'm glad I looked at it.. ultimately I was ok paying premium for the F/VS2 (which had better color/inclusion -- the color was noticeable and more important to me). I'm also returning the J/SI1 to GOG (was eliminated much earlier being too yellow for my taste, albeit much more wallet friendly). Tough to say what "best value" was. All 3 were just different... Square H&A definitely is a consistent cut.

The F/VS2 was bought from GOG (Rhino) which also were absolute pleasures to deal with and I think there is a reason they do so much volume. They will also get a post..

The diamond is with Leon Mege for setting. I was nervous given all the chatter on the board with Leon. I really like him and he is very rational/smart.. I will post at some point when all that experience goes through.

And I also had a favorable experience with a local SoCal / Orange County diamond retailer Liberty Diamonds (Troy Lob). I wish I knew about Troy earlier since he would have been a local guy to go to early on.. he is a diamond nerd, does cushions, and has access to a very brilliant stone similar to the Lucida. He didn't like the Square H&A and I thought his reasons were genuine (too deep, girdle too thick, can find non-H&A for cheaper price, if go with H&A he would go with round). He is a straight shooter as well which I liked. He sold a $20K emerald when I was there.. so big and green and awesome. I spent some time not being able to find a Southern California jeweler, so glad to know they were there.

One interesting "issue" with the square H&A is the think/varying girdle. You can't put a basket on it easily, you need to curve it under the girdle. So halo, 3-stone, or large prongs/no basket etc are better setting options. Not ideal for me. Troy was first to highlight this and Leon had a similar reaction, which is he pondering on. So something to think about for Square H&A

Also a shout out to bob hoskins at White Flash. He is truly a pleasure to deal with. More on that as well later.

Everyone I dealt with is generally awesome because nearly all were vetted by you folks on Pricescope. Thank you.

--- Adios till I return with photos...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top