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Help me assess this diamond pls

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sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Hi everyone,

I'm trying to find an engagement ring for my girlfriend. And I 'm hoping that this could be the one!
Please help me analyse the quality of this diamond :)))

Specifications
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.31 - 5.39 x 3.31 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.0 (F)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (VVS2)
Carat Weight 0.580
Fluorescence: Negligible
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 55.3%
Crown Angle: 34.6
Crown Height: 15.5%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.1% to 4.4%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Girdle Length: 79%
Total Depth: 61.8%
Culet: Pointed

[Links removed by Moderator] See forum policies

Thanks in advance guys!
Cheers!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Hi Sarius,

It looks very nice! I assume you prefer high colour and clarity? You may know you could drop both without visual sacrifice but if you prefer F VVS then no worries!
 

Conflagration

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
37
That diamond will look great!

Now, if your drop to a VS2 clarity, still VERY eye clean, you will find a diamond over .7ct for essentially the same price.

The .58 is nice but, consider what almost 3/4 ct. would look like, if that interests you. You can find those same cut angles in a VS2 or SI1 that will yeild the same look to ones eye.

Good luck
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Very nice!
Why is the date hidden on the certificate?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
nice diamond.
Posting links off the board is however against the rules you need to upload them to PS.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
sorry for the faux pas strmrdr. will try to upload the images later.

but thanks for the feedback guys :)))

guess the only thing left for me to do is to verify it with an independent appraiser.

will check the date of the certificate too.

thanks again!
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Hi guys,

I was told that it''s not possible to see the AGS certificate number inscription on the girdle if it''s a loose diamond. Is this true? How can I verify that the diamond is the same as the one in the AGS cert?

I have viewed the diamond in person using the Idealscope and ASET scope but was unable to see the same images that he sent me (which I''ve posted in the the first post but were removed for violating ps policies). Could it be because I don''t have a trained eye for it?

I''ve asked the guy and he said that computer images and human observation can perceive the images differently. And the imaging equipment used for idealscope and aset images for the diamond is much more sophisticated than the normal Idealscope and ASET scope.

How else can I verify the images are from the diamond?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 4/24/2009 9:55:21 AM
Author: sarius
Hi guys,

I was told that it''s not possible to see the AGS certificate number inscription on the girdle if it''s a loose diamond. Is this true? How can I verify that the diamond is the same as the one in the AGS cert?

I have viewed the diamond in person using the Idealscope and ASET scope but was unable to see the same images that he sent me (which I''ve posted in the the first post but were removed for violating ps policies). Could it be because I don''t have a trained eye for it?

I''ve asked the guy and he said that computer images and human observation can perceive the images differently. And the imaging equipment used for idealscope and aset images for the diamond is much more sophisticated than the normal Idealscope and ASET scope.

How else can I verify the images are from the diamond?
If the diamond is inscribed then you might need magnification to be able to view it. An appraiser should be able to verify diamond and report belong together as you propose to consult one.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the replies.

Stone-cold,
he did suggest using the Diamond Inscription Viewer, but that''s for mounted diamonds.

Lorelei,
Yes, I will be going to one. Can an appraiser verify Idealscope & ASET images as well?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 4/24/2009 10:40:33 AM
Author: sarius
he did suggest using the Diamond Inscription Viewer, but that''s for mounted diamonds.
I know, what I meant was normal loupe is only 10X I believe and do not have the magnification to see it.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/24/2009 10:40:33 AM
Author: sarius
Thanks for the replies.


Lorelei,
Yes, I will be going to one. Can an appraiser verify Idealscope & ASET images as well?
Apparently some can view an inscription at 10x. Do you mean can an appraiser verify that certain images belong to that particular diamond Sarius?
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Stone-cold,
I see. Will it be possible to just put the diamond on an empty setting temporarily and then use the Diamond Inscription viewer to see the inscription?

Lorelei,
Yup, that''s what I meant.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 4/24/2009 11:05:21 AM
Author: sarius
Stone-cold,
I see. Will it be possible to just put the diamond on an empty setting temporarily and then use the Diamond Inscription viewer to see the inscription?

Lorelei,
Yup, that's what I meant.
To be honest I don't know if that is possible to say with any real certainty that a particular IS image for example definitely belongs to a particular diamond. I think an appraiser with skill in evaluating these images might be able to estimate an image belongs to a diamond but I don't know for sure if it would be a resounding yes or no to that question.

As to the inscription you would need to make sure it wasn't covered by a prong also to be able to view it. Honestly though I wouldn't worry too much, as you are seeing an appraiser, they will be able to verify the diamond by the inscription and other methods to make sure all is in order. They might also be able to show you the inscription.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the advice Lorelei!

I have a few more questions regarding the AGS certificate.

1. Measurements: 5.31 - 5.39 x 3.31 mm
What parts of the diamond do the measurements refer to?
Are the numbers an average of a few measurements?
Is 5.31 - 5.39 a range (ie maximum and minimum)?

2. Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
I understand that the DQD is performance based.
Can I confirm that the Light Performance, Proportion Factors and Finish (Polish & Symmetry) have to be all 0 (Ideal) for the Cut Grade to be AGS Ideal 0?

3. Girdle: Faceted, 1.1% to 4.4%
Are the above numbers the range (ie maximum and minimum) for the girdle thickness?
Are they measured at the valley, bone or bezel?
Or are they measured at any point as long as it''s the minimum and maximum part of the girdle?

I understand that for the Girdle Grade to be 0, it has to be Thin, Medium, or Slightly Thick.
The DQD does not state the above descriptions for the girdle.
What are the numbers that fall into the above 3 categories?
Which category will 1.1% - 4.4% fall under?
If the Girdle grade is 1 or more (ie. not under Thin, Medium, Slightly Thick), will the Cut Grade still be 0?

Thanks in advance!
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,859
Hi Sarius,

1. The first two measurements (5.31-5.39) are the smallest and highest diameter of the stone in mm. The last measurement is the depth in mm. No averages.

2. If the AGS Cut-grade is Ideal, all factors including Proportion Factors and Finish are also Ideal. Basically, this confirms your idea.

3. The girdle-notation of AGS is somewhat confusing but very informative. It gives the smallest girdle-thickness and the highest girdle-thickness in relation to the average diameter of the stone. Generally, the smallest (in your case 1.1%) will be the smallest thickness in the valleys and the highest (4.4%) will be the thickest measurement at the bones.

If the girdle grade would not be Ideal, the grade for Proportion Factors would not be Ideal, thus the Cut grade would not be Ideal.

Live long,
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Just saw Paul answered you beautifully!
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the explanation Paul!

However, there''s a little discrepancy which I hope can be clarified here regarding this diamond and the AGS cut grade.

According to the AGS Ideal Cut article here on PS (http://diamonds.pricescope.com/agsideal.asp), these would be the girdle thickness for their respective AGS grades and descriptions:

AGS grade Description Girdle Thickness
3 Ex Thin 0 at any spot
1 Very thin 1.8–2.19%
0 Thin 2.2–2.99%
0 Medium 3.0–3.99%
0 Slightly Thick 4.0–4.99%
3 Thick 5.0–5.99%

The AGS report states the girdle thickness as 1.1% to 4.4%.

Doesn''t this put the Girdle grade of this diamond as Ex Thin-Slightly Thick, which is a Grade 3?

And since the Girdle grade is not 0 Ideal, the Proportion and Cut grade shouldn''t be 0 Ideal.

Then why did the AGS report for this diamond put the Cut grade it as 0 Ideal?


Your valuable advice will be much appreciated!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/28/2009 8:12:43 AM
Author: sarius
Thanks for the explanation Paul!

However, there's a little discrepancy which I hope can be clarified here regarding this diamond and the AGS cut grade.

According to the AGS Ideal Cut article here on PS (http://diamonds.pricescope.com/agsideal.asp), these would be the girdle thickness for their respective AGS grades and descriptions:

AGS grade Description Girdle Thickness
3 Ex Thin 0 at any spot
1 Very thin 1.8–2.19%
0 Thin 2.2–2.99%
0 Medium 3.0–3.99%
0 Slightly Thick 4.0–4.99%
3 Thick 5.0–5.99%

The AGS report states the girdle thickness as 1.1% to 4.4%.

Doesn't this put the Girdle grade of this diamond as Ex Thin-Slightly Thick, which is a Grade 3?

And since the Girdle grade is not 0 Ideal, the Proportion and Cut grade shouldn't be 0 Ideal.

Then why did the AGS report for this diamond put the Cut grade it as 0 Ideal?


Your valuable advice will be much appreciated!
Paul will be able to tell you straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, the chart I use for AGS girdles which is from one of Paul's colleagues rates 1.1% as thin so therefore not a problem and eligible for AGS0 - but Paul will check back later I am sure.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the assurance Lorelei!

May I know where else can I find this chart that you''re using?

Is it available online? Or will it be possible to send me a copy of the chart?

The only AGS girdle chart that I could find was from the AGS Performance Based Cut Grade pdf document.

Girdle Thickness
The Ideal Cut Grade can have girdle thicknesses of Thin, Medium or Slightly Thick at the ‘valleys’ or ‘scallops’.
Highest grade achievable with up to a 4.5% girdle, at any point, is Ideal
Highest grade achievable with >4.5 to 5.5% girdle, at any point, is Excellent
Highest grade achievable with >5.5 to 6.5% girdle, at any point, is Very Good
Highest grade achievable with >6.5 to 7.5% girdle, at any point, is Good
Highest grade achievable with >7.5 to 10.0% girdle, at any point, is Fair
Highest grade achievable with >10.0% girdle, at any point, is Poor
Extremely thin or very thin girdle, at any point, reduces the cut grade by one grade

However there''re no numbers below 4.5% or for classifying Thin, Ex Thin and V Thin.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the help Loerelei!

Really hope I can clarify this soon as I''ll be confirming with purchase within 1-2 weeks


Paul,
hope to hear your comments on this discrepancy between the girdle thickness and grade stated on PS tutorial and theCut grade on the AGS report.

Cheers!
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Hi Paul,

By outdated, are you referring to the one on the PS tutorial?
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/agsideal.asp

Or the one at AGS lab?
http://agslab.com/pbcg/Complete_Instructions_%20AGSL_Proportion_Based_Cut_Grade.pdf

Can you explain what''s the difference in notation used?

May I know where can I get the updated chart?

Will the girdle thickness of 1.1% to 4.4% fall under Thin to Slightly Thick under this new chart like Lorelei mentioned? Thus, explaining why the Cut grade is 0 Ideal?

Thanks so much for your time!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
This is the one I use which John Pollard posted, Paul will confirm if this is the current one.

jpgrdles.jpg
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Thanks for the chart Lorelei!

Guess that kinda settles the Girdle grade as Thin to Slighty Thick.
 

sarius

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
17
Hihi,

I''ve emailed AGS Lab regarding the girdle thickness. Here''s their reply:

Hello,
I have attached the information for Girdle thickness that we are currently using.
The girdle information in the article is no longer correct.
thank you.
Glenda S. Marshall, G.G..
Senior Client Services Representative
AGS Laboratories, LLC

girdle_thk.jpg
 
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