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Help looking for 9-10mm round blue sapphire, unheated

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
I was looking for PS community's help finding a 9-10mm round blue sapphire, unheated.
I know it's rare and would be expensive, especially one with a precision cut...

I saw one by AfricaGems, but not sure if the pricetag was correct? I've read they're one of the honest vendors though.
https://www.africagems.com/round-sapphire-blue-ja-2309.html

Also, where would be the best place to have such a gem custom set? Any thoughts on Tacori Settings? I'd be nervous mailing in an expensive gem for fear they may change out the stone...

Thanks for the help =)2
 
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Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jan 22, 2014
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4,347
4507FFD4-07B2-4D20-9301-519D3E8EAB0C.jpeg It’s not easy, and I have a round 9.2mm.
I can’t tell you why one is $30,000 and the other $6,000.
Personally I think the Africa gem one is overpriced. You will pay more for unheated and more for a vivid blue ie Royal or Peacock. Lighter tones, colour banding, heavy silk inclusions will be cheaper.
Also cut affects carat weight and most sell as a “per carat” price. My sapphire is cut like a round brilliant diamond so while it is 9.2mm diameter, it’s weight is just on 3 carats. If a gem has a heavier “underneath” you’ll be sort of paying for weight you can’t see. So always check the dimensions as well as the carat weight.
And only buy from a vendor who offers a no fuss return. You really do need to see the gem with your own eyes. Vendors photos can’t always be relied on. And of course you need an appropriate lab report.
Any decent jeweller, and there’s a few recommended here, can be trusted to set your sapphire, sapphires are a robust gem.
I’m still to set mine into the ring.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
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1,199

suzanne2

Brilliant_Rock
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Joined
Jan 18, 2007
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That Jeff Davies sapphire is a stunner!
OP, any of the trusted jewelers from the list will set your stone. They handle valuable stones on a daily basis.
I second the request that you tell us your preferred color and budget so we can go on the hunt for you.
Also, remember that sapphires are cut to retain the color so they usually won't fit in a standard diamond setting.
 
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MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
That stone is going to be very dark in real life, do you like dark sapphires? What styles of settings do you like?
Yes, I know it will be a bit darker. I actually like the darker royal blue colored sapphires.

I'd like to set a round sapphire in a 6-prong platinum setting. I know it's not common, but we want to be different!
 

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
4507FFD4-07B2-4D20-9301-519D3E8EAB0C.jpeg It’s not easy, and I have a round 9.2mm.
I can’t tell you why one is $30,000 and the other $6,000.
Personally I think the Africa gem one is overpriced. You will pay more for unheated and more for a vivid blue ie Royal or Peacock. Lighter tones, colour banding, heavy silk inclusions will be cheaper.
Also cut affects carat weight and most sell as a “per carat” price. My sapphire is cut like a round brilliant diamond so while it is 9.2mm diameter, it’s weight is just on 3 carats. If a gem has a heavier “underneath” you’ll be sort of paying for weight you can’t see. So always check the dimensions as well as the carat weight.
And only buy from a vendor who offers a no fuss return. You really do need to see the gem with your own eyes. Vendors photos can’t always be relied on. And of course you need an appropriate lab report.
Any decent jeweller, and there’s a few recommended here, can be trusted to set your sapphire, sapphires are a robust gem.
I’m still to set mine into the ring.
Thats a nice sapphire. Along the darkness of sapphire I was looking for.
I've heard that AfricaGems are sometimes overpriced, but wasn't sure how overpriced (eg. 10% markup? 20% markup?). They seem to get good reviews on PS and are on the recommended vendor list...
Which Jeweler on the PS site would you recommend? Who will you be using to set your sapphire?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,268
Just know “dark” doesn’t always mean fine color. @Bron357 has a darker sapphire but the saturation (intensity of color) is strong and very beautiful. I think Princess Diana had an unattractive dark sapphire. That stone is probably responsible for more inferior colored gems being sold at high prices because people equate dark with fine quality.
 

amoline

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
341
Any vendor will have a markup more than 10 or even 20%. Not to start a price debate, but if it some of us saw what gems really cost wholesale, we'd probably be so shocked we wouldn't buy gems anymore.

That particular sapphire posted originally is too dark and purple for my tastes but YMMV.

I know Jeff White does fantastic work (sorry, on my phone, not sure if anyone already mentioned him) so check in with him.

If you don't mind my asking, is there a particular reason you NEED unheated? Sure, it's always nice to have but at the size you're looking for, allowing for basic heat would certainly widen the search area. But PS is awesome and I'm sure we'll find one, but I'm just curious. :))
 

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
This one is heated but it is a much better colour and far more likely to sparkle in low light

http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=7478

Or this one if the budget is more lenient

https://jefferydavies.com/gemstones/sapphire/mj10795-sapphire-7-32ct-lotus/

Do you want to post a budget and some preferred colour examples? There will not be many options at this size but someone may know of something if you give them enough information.
Thanks you qubitasaurus.
Both of those look amazing. Why is the concavegem sapphire so underpriced? They only show one photo of it...
The JefferyDavies sapphire is definitely a stunner.

Something along the color I was thinking would be this color (not the emerald shape though):
https://www.jamesallen.com/gemstones/blue-sapphire/5.03-carat-emerald-sku-30146

In terms of a budget. I initially thought $20k, but when I saw the AfricaGems' rare UnHeated richly colored sapphire, I thought I could at the absolute most go to $30k. I know, insane budget, but I saved a lot and plan to keep the ring as an heirloom to future generations. I don't like to mention budget, for fear people would judge me. But being a silent reader of PS forums the past few months, I see its not like that here.
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,051
The big gem Show is right now in Las Vegas and I know Inken is there from Enhoerning is there and also Gary from Finewater gems is there (I’m sure more are but those are the two I know of), so you could maybe email them and see what they have.

Inken did post this pic on IG:
0CAFA19A-79B8-4ED9-AFC6-AF3A9EB7D2F3.jpeg

So follow vendors on IG as they post and also contact a few to see if they can look for you (and what their return policy is).
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,051
Thanks you qubitasaurus.
Both of those look amazing. Why is the concavegem sapphire so underpriced? They only show one photo of it...
The JefferyDavies sapphire is definitely a stunner.

Something along the color I was thinking would be this color (not the emerald shape though):
https://www.jamesallen.com/gemstones/blue-sapphire/5.03-carat-emerald-sku-30146

In terms of a budget. I initially thought $20k, but when I saw the AfricaGems' rare UnHeated richly colored sapphire, I thought I could at the absolute most go to $30k. I know, insane budget, but I saved a lot and plan to keep the ring as an heirloom to future generations. I don't like to mention budget, for fear people would judge me. But being a silent reader of PS forums the past few months, I see its not like that here.
When set, a sapphire this dark will look nearly black. Is that what you like?
 

Desertrose

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Messages
239
I second contacting Inken or Yvonne Raley, who is also at the gem show in Las Vegas today - she could take photos and show you some options. Yvonne has a lot of knowledge of sapphires and I would trust her judgement and descriptions.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,748
I'll be the third to vouch for Inken or Yvonne. I'd say Inken knows her rubies and sapphires just as well, if not more, than Yvonne, and between the two I'd say that Inken specializes in larger fine sapphires, while Yvonee has primarily worked with smaller sizes. Not to say that Yvonne can't also source a large fine sapphire, but in terms of communication, I've heard from Inken several times throughout the day, and from Yvonne maybe once or twice at the beginning of the day, probably due to how busy she is with her business. Of the two, I'd recommend Inken more so than Yvonne.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,199
Thanks you qubitasaurus.
Both of those look amazing. Why is the concavegem sapphire so underpriced? They only show one photo of it...
The JefferyDavies sapphire is definitely a stunner.

Something along the color I was thinking would be this color (not the emerald shape though):
https://www.jamesallen.com/gemstones/blue-sapphire/5.03-carat-emerald-sku-30146

In terms of a budget. I initially thought $20k, but when I saw the AfricaGems' rare UnHeated richly colored sapphire, I thought I could at the absolute most go to $30k. I know, insane budget, but I saved a lot and plan to keep the ring as an heirloom to future generations. I don't like to mention budget, for fear people would judge me. But being a silent reader of PS forums the past few months, I see its not like that here.
Concavegems is a good vendor. Their stone is probably stunning in real life, but you could ask for videos to get a better idea. If I had to guess its price probably reflects the fact that it is purpleish (primarily purple hue) which is a similar situation to the africagems stone you linked. Also it has sat in inventory for a while, and this is one of the vendors who does not mark up their stock when it doesnt sell. So the pricing probably reflects what such a stone would have cost a few years ago.

Unfortunately sapphire prices have been rising so this will make it look comparitively cheap

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/gfspring17.html#5

(You kind of get the idea from this chart). The discrepency in price with the africagems stone probably reflects the fact that the africagems sapphire is overpriced even in the current market. This is not so much africagems fault, as their pricing structure is set by their supplier gem2000 which is a very large retailer with a lot of stones. And occasionally gem2000 may slap a price on something which is a bit out of line with current trends, their turnover is high they're probably not agonizing over the pricing of every single item. It doesnt mean africagems is a bad seller (quite the oposite) but caveat emptor.

Another stone for you to consider is this one

https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p453/4.63_ct_Unheated_Blue/Purple_Color-change_Sapphire.html

It should be said that these types of things are poor investments. You could buy the wrong one -- I would never pay more than 6 k for that africagems stone as it is overly dark, so if you bought it then I doubt it would hold value. Even if you buy a really good stone you are still expecting at least a 30% instantaneous drop due to standard markups (often far more). When people buy more expensive stones they get hit again by the fact that they need to resell it consignment or by auction (probably another 20% hit as consignment fees tend to start at 15% minimum.). But no one will buy a 20k stone seccond hand without a jeweler handling the transaction -- hence consignment fees become unavoidable. Furthermore it can get chipped during setting or just randomly from bumping it into something like a draw. You can lose it, you can put it in the post to AGL to get a lab report and it can get lost, etc. I think I have seen all of these things happen several times each while reading this forum. Meanwhile the longterm price trajectories fluctuate with the discovery of new sources, mine closure and revoking of mining permits due to civil unrest and all sorts of other geopolitical factos. Making it highly unpredictable.

So it is unlikely that you will do anything other than incur higher insurance premiums with this purchase -- so if you buy it then do so for the love of wearing it knowing that you will probably never recover the money you spent on it.
 
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helphelp911

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
28
If that's the color you are after, maybe you can look for a tanzanite. I think it is common color for tanzanite. I think you can get a huge one. Maybe 100crt for that budget
 

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
Concavegems is a good vendor. Their stone is probably stunning in real life, but you could ask for videos to get a better idea. If I had to guess its price probably reflects the fact that it is purpleish (primarily purple hue) which is a similar situation to the africagems stone you linked. Also it has sat in inventory for a while, and this is one of the vendors who does not mark up their stock when it doesnt sell. So the pricing probably reflects what such a stone would have cost a few years ago.

Unfortunately sapphire prices have been rising so this will make it look comparitively cheap

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/gfspring17.html#5

(You kind of get the idea from this chart). The discrepency in price with the africagems stone probably reflects the fact that the africagems sapphire is overpriced even in the current market. This is not so much africagems fault, as their pricing structure is set by their supplier gem2000 which is a very large retailer with a lot of stones. And occasionally gem2000 may slap a price on something which is a bit out of line with current trends, their turnover is high they're probably not agonizing over the pricing of every single item. It doesnt mean africagems is a bad seller (quite the oposite) but caveat emptor.

Another stone for you to consider is this one

https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p453/4.63_ct_Unheated_Blue/Purple_Color-change_Sapphire.html

It should be said that these types of things are poor investments. You could buy the wrong one -- I would never pay more than 6 k for that africagems stone as it is overly dark, so if you bought it then I doubt it would hold value. Even if you buy a really good stone you are still expecting at least a 30% instantaneous drop due to standard markups (often far more). When people buy more expensive stones they get hit again by the fact that they need to resell it consignment or by auction (probably another 20% hit as consignment fees tend to start at 15% minimum.). But no one will buy a 20k stone seccond hand without a jeweler handling the transaction -- hence consignment fees become unavoidable. Furthermore it can get chipped during setting or just randomly from bumping it into something like a draw. You can lose it, you can put it in the post to AGL to get a lab report and it can get lost, etc. I think I have seen all of these things happen several times each while reading this forum. Meanwhile the longterm price trajectories fluctuate with the discovery of new sources, mine closure and revoking of mining permits due to civil unrest and all sorts of other geopolitical factos. Making it highly unpredictable.

So it is unlikely that you will do anything other than incur higher insurance premiums with this purchase -- so if you buy it then do so for the love of wearing it knowing that you will probably never recover the money you spent on it.

Thank you once again, qubitasaurus, for a very detailed response with links and lots of information!
I know it took time to type that out.

I do understand that these stones make bad investments. I just plan to buy something special for my fiance for the love of her wearing it "knowing that I won't recover the money." She's special and deserves something rare and special. And I'd like to keep something for future generations to have.

I'll definitely inquire about the congave gems sapphire, and ask about more photos/videos.

I also contacted Inken as the others had recommended!
 

MPdlC0220

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
7
Any vendor will have a markup more than 10 or even 20%. Not to start a price debate, but if it some of us saw what gems really cost wholesale, we'd probably be so shocked we wouldn't buy gems anymore.

That particular sapphire posted originally is too dark and purple for my tastes but YMMV.

I know Jeff White does fantastic work (sorry, on my phone, not sure if anyone already mentioned him) so check in with him.

If you don't mind my asking, is there a particular reason you NEED unheated? Sure, it's always nice to have but at the size you're looking for, allowing for basic heat would certainly widen the search area. But PS is awesome and I'm sure we'll find one, but I'm just curious. :))
Hi Amoline,
I'll check out Jeff White. Seems like he does't have much inventory on his website though...

In terms of unheated, it's just the rarity of it. I'm just trying to look for something extra special for my fiance. She's always been by my side and taken care of me :)
 

mpc

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
79
I’ll also add that I am currently (and have been) looking for an unheated blue sapphire (4+ carat). I can’t say enough good things about Inken- she’s been looking at stones for me for over 6 months. Hopefully she can find something for you while she’s in Vegas!
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,051
I’ll also add that I am currently (and have been) looking for an unheated blue sapphire (4+ carat). I can’t say enough good things about Inken- she’s been looking at stones for me for over 6 months. Hopefully she can find something for you while she’s in Vegas!
She found me an emerald!
 

amoline

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
341
Jeff doesn't really post inventory on his website often. He's mostly a cut-to-ordder type of guy. He's great to work with, though!

All the best in your search. Post back here when you find the right one.
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
998
I think tomarrow is the last day of JCK, but maybe Hong Kong in september might be another venue to try?

+1 to the idea of finding someone trusted to scour a trade show. At the very high end, there isn’t a ton of options from our usual vendors, as there isnt a ton of sales volume and its pricey to stock.

That Jeff Davies stone is pretty amazing, but heated. Finding something that size with good color is rare enough even with heat. Now add in round and decent cut - you may be looking a while.

Maybe a better question - what’s your timeline like? This might take a while.

Checking in with Jeff Davies might be another option. In the past he’s had some very nice, larger sapphires for sale.

If it wasn’t massivly over budget (due to the locale, no doubt) and an oval, I’d say get this and scrap the setting ;-)
https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...atural-no-heat-sapphire-and-diamond-ring.html
 
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