Help! I can''t decide.. heated or unheated?

[jvLin]

I stumbled across a stunning blue sapphire, but it was heated. It's about .85 carats, with a color nearly identical to the following (I've seen it in person):

http://www.palagems.com/Images/sapphire_connoisseurship/burma_sapphire_5.50_ct.jpg

Now, I've heard people on these forums say that heated sapphires are a dime a dozen (in regards to its rarity, not pricing). Does this include sapphires that are top-quality with astounding colors?

Also, what effects does heating have on inclusions? I know it removes silk, so does this mean that it loses its "fingerprint?" Does it mean that it's the same as a synthetic, and nearly indistinguishable? Also, can a synthetic perfectly mimic the color of the sapphire above?

How much would such a small heated sapphire be worth?

Thank you for all the information, and sorry for all the questions! I really am a newbie.

 

[jvLin]

Okay, I lied... it''s not identical. It has fewer extinction spots and the purplish undertone is not as prominent.

 

[T L]

Be very very careful of who you buy sapphires from. There is a treatment out there called beryllium diffusion. What this basically does it coat the stone with an element that makes it cobalt blue, or the more desirable shades of sapphire. If you were to cut one of the be-treated sapphires in half, you would see a dark outer shell, and a lighter interior. There are so many of these sapphires on ebay and are not being disclosed as be-treated, so please please make sure you purchase a sapphire from a reputable dealer like the ones recommended by PS. A heat treated sapphire can also be a be-treated sapphire, and that needs to be disclosed and come with a reputable lab report indicating that there is no evidence of beryllium. I don't mind simple gently heated sapphires, but be-heated sapphires are a different ball of wax and are not valuable.

The naturalsapphirecompany.com is a reputable dealer of natural unheated sapphires (unheated also means no berilliym as well). You can search though their inventory for price points, but even small unheated sapphires of top color are not inexpensive.

 

[neatfreak]

I agree with TL. As long as you are being careful however, I personally don''t see a problem with heated sapphires because usually it can net you a much nicer stone for your budget than something totally unheated. Unless you are a purist, but in that case I bet you wouldn''t be asking this question.

IRL no one will ever ask you if it''s a heated stone or not. It''s such common practice.

 

[T L]

My point of contention with heated vs unheated is that some retailiers charge a huge amount for heated stones, since it is accepted practice. If you are getting a heated stone, make sure you''re paying a fair price. Unheated stones cost a large premium over heated ones, and you should find a substantial savings with a heated stone of the same color as an unheated one. I just wouldn''t get a be-heated stone unless you want it for some inexpensive jewelry. Just know what you are getting.

 

[JaxBradGG]

You cant really tell just from looking at the color... But a trained Gemologist could tell you if it is heated or unheated. But i would still buy from someone who is trust worthy and if it is "unheated" it would need to have a lab report.

When a sapphire is heated the silk can go away and the fingerprints will look like they exploded but are still in a finger print shape. Tough to describe. As a consumer you need to find someone who u can trust if you are trying to buy an unheated stone because sapphires and rubies are becoming more and more difficult to identify types of treatments.

 

[jvLin]

Well, the sapphire is about $900. I''ve seen many gems online, but none of them match up to that one. Unfortunately, the gem does not come with a lab report because his (the jeweler''s) dealer did not provide him with one. I''ve known him for a long time, so I know he''s honest.

Is there any way to tell if a gem is BE-diffused without sending the gem in for a test? Maybe something you can do with a loupe?

 

[T L]

I don't trust any sapphire without a cert, I don't care who it is. Even the seller can get taken if he's buying the material from somewhere, and he just eyeballs it and thinks it's okay. Some of the most experienced sellers can still get taken - it does happen. I'm not saying that your seller is like that, but it is something to take notice of for anyone who believes they have a trustworthy seller. The most trustworthy and respectible sellers will provide certs because they know that they can make mistakes.

I think you would require a microscope to determine be-heating, but I'm not sure. If you direct this question in RockyTalky, you may get some gemologists to respond.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/10/2008 12:32:35 PM
Author: jvLin
Well, the sapphire is about $900. I''ve seen many gems online, but none of them match up to that one. Unfortunately, the gem does not come with a lab report because his (the jeweler''s) dealer did not provide him with one. I''ve known him for a long time, so I know he''s honest.


Is there any way to tell if a gem is BE-diffused without sending the gem in for a test? Maybe something you can do with a loupe?

Is this for an important piece? If so, I''d send it to a gem expert for an appraisal even if you "trust" this jeweler...

 

[T L]

I would actually make sure it's a gem lab that specializes in colored stones. Perhaps your seller can send it to a reputable lab like the AGTA or GIA for a colored gem report for an additional fee. If it turns out to not be what he says it is (just a gentle heated sapphire), he should eat the cost of the lab report.

The gemstones I'm super leary about are spinels, sapphires, rubies and emeralds since they are expensive and there are many issues with treatments or synthesizing as far as these stones are concerned.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/10/2008 3:56:08 AM
Author:jvLin
I stumbled across a stunning blue sapphire, but it was heated. It's about .85 carats, with a color nearly identical to the following (I've seen it in person):

http://www.palagems.com/Images/sapphire_connoisseurship/burma_sapphire_5.50_ct.jpg

Now, I've heard people on these forums say that heated sapphires are a dime a dozen (in regards to its rarity, not pricing). Does this include sapphires that are top-quality with astounding colors?

Sapphires are normally heat-treated to improve the colour, so yes you can get heated sapphires in astounding colours and of very fine quality. However they will/should be cheaper than an unheated stone of the same colour (all other criteria being equal).

I would prefer a heated sapphire in a great colour over an unheated sapphire in a not so good colour. I would also be more likely to buy the heated stone out of two identical stones and save some $$$ (unless it was a collection piece rather than a wearing piece) - after all, the only person who will know it is unheated is you.

Also, what effects does heating have on inclusions? I know it removes silk, so does this mean that it loses its 'fingerprint?' Does it mean that it's the same as a synthetic, and nearly indistinguishable? Also, can a synthetic perfectly mimic the color of the sapphire above?

Silk will dissolve under heat treatment and other inclusions will change - one of the ways in which heat treatment can be detected is by the effect on certain types of inclusion. However it does not mean that the stone will become 'flawless' if that is what you mean.

Synthetic sapphire has the same physical, chemical and optical properties as natural sapphire, but won't show inclusions of the sort that are created during the genesis of natural sapphire. Instead they show inclusions that are typical of the growth pattern that is undergone in the laboratory.

However, a flawless natural sapphire can be indistinguishable from a flawless synthetic - hence why you need lab reports and a good microscope at this point. Personally I don't like to buy gemstones without inclusions - it makes me suspicious!

Synthetics are generally made in the finest colours of sapphire as these command the highest prices and are more marketable. Yes I have seen synthetics in the colour of the sapphire that you have posted.

The subject of berrylium treatment has been touched on by others. I do not buy stones that are BE-treated (other than as examples of BE-treated stones - in the same way that I buy synthetics. It is useful to study these stones so that you can compare them with the real thing) - I do not have any problem with gently heated stones (as long as it is disclosed).

How much would such a small heated sapphire be worth?

There are a lot of variables with coloured stones so it is not that easy to give a value based on one photograph. Best thing to do is to look at a lot of stones and see what prices they are at - that will give you the best idea of the current market.

Thank you for all the information, and sorry for all the questions! I really am a newbie.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/10/2008 12:32:35 PM
Author: jvLin
Well, the sapphire is about $900. I''ve seen many gems online, but none of them match up to that one. Unfortunately, the gem does not come with a lab report because his (the jeweler''s) dealer did not provide him with one. I''ve known him for a long time, so I know he''s honest.

Is there any way to tell if a gem is BE-diffused without sending the gem in for a test? Maybe something you can do with a loupe?

No - you will need to send it to a lab to have this checked.

 

[jvLin]

Thanks all for the speedy responses!

I posted in the rockytalky forums, but I guess it got moved to this forum. hah. Oh well.

I''ll be back to ask more questions. Thanks again!

 

[bar01]

It is your own personal preference on heated vs unheated. No major issues except mental or emotional ones. At the time I was pricing mine I think untreated was going for about a 30% premium over untreated. That was a while ago, not sure of what the market is at today.

Based on that assuming that two sapphires are identical in looks the untreated one would be many orders of magnitude rarer (geologically speaking) that the treated... and therefore to me... the 30% premium was a bargain.

 

[brendaman]

I was considering an unheated sapphire for my e-ring (still searching). I just like the fact that it would be rare and special. I''ve heard that the premium for an unheated sapphire can be about 30% and saw on one of these posts that the price per carat can be between $1000 to $2500. However, NSC does have unheated above $3000 per carat, but you''ll find if you do a search on PS that NSC and cherrypicked.com are considered to be "cream of the crop" in terms of unheated, not that you won''t find really fine stones and perhaps better ones elsewhere. Of course, the source of the stone also has something to do with prices. You linked a Burmese stone as an example, and unheated Burmese stones have a higher premium, not as much as Kashmir from what I''ve found. BTW, although, you''ll hear that 95+% of sapphires in the market are heated, you are still able to find unheated ones.

If I find an unheated sapphire for the right price with a color, clarity, cut that I like, then I would jump at it. But, I am now also considering heated sapphires as I''ve compared beautiful heated with unheated sapphires side by side, and for me now, it will depend on whether the stone sings to me (or was that makes my heart sing???).