HELP!! I broke my diamond!!!!!!!

[phoenixgirl]

I had a fire a year ago (tomorrow, actually -- we''re having a great Bastille day fire party to commemorate it), so I know how working with insurance can be. The important thing to remember is that you are entitled to like quality, and that involves the cut first and foremost. Perhaps if you willing to take G/SI1 instead of F SI2, there will be more inventory to work with. They may very well get you F SI1 if there are no SI2''s available. After all, you were paying a premium on the inflated value.

Stick to your guns and insist on working with your own vendor if this guy can''t deliver. They are just trying to save themselves money by working with somebody with whom they have a relationship. That''s not what you were paying for, though. You were paying for a like stone should the unthinkable happen, as it has. They will not force you to work with this jeweler, but they may try to make it seem like it''s your only or best option.

 

[laney]

Thanks phoenixgirl.

I have explained to the jeweler that I''d be willing to play a little w/specs but not with cut. He had an F SI and a E SI2. Both were not H&A and only one was AGS 000. Some were larger(1.6 vs 1.5) So I hope he finds more.


I have to say, for a normal person - this replacement process might be great. Come in - get a new stone the same day. If I didn''t know better - than I''d be overwhelmed with their great service. I still hope to be! So I take it all w/a grain of salt. The Insurance company is certainly doing everything it should at this point. Wish me luck tomorrow!

 

[diamondlil]

Date: 7/13/2005 11:53:54 AM
Author: strmrdr
Might be a good idea to get oldminer to overnight an idealscope to you.
That will help you select a good replacement.

As I was reading the updated posts, I thought the same thing. Do you have an IS, Laney? Well worth the overnight fees IMO.

 

[Kaleigh]

Good luck tomorrow laney, and bring an IS with you. That is a great idea, and will help you in your selection process!!!

 

[SquareCut]

Good luck Laney. We are all wishing you a great experience! The jeweler sounds accomodating so far. Remember-that AGS 000 does not guarantee a well cut stone. I choose a GIA vg vg over a larger AGS000 because the brilliance was visably greater on the GIA one. Definetly use the HCA and the idealscope.

 

[phoenixgirl]

GOOD LUCK tomorrow! And have fun!

My overall experience with the insurance company (State Farm) was very good (by the way, if you live in a condo, definitely find out what company the association uses and insure through them . . . it was just a coincidence we had the same company, but it saved a huge hassle since there wasn''t a fight over who had to pay). Until you need the insurance, you feel like it''s a waste of money. You think about the extra $50 a year you''re paying because of the outrageous figure put on the appraisal . . . grumble, grumble. And then you actually need the insurance, and you''re like, a new kitchen, and I only gave them $147? Wow!

And you know, since many jewelers don''t seem to know much about cut, you can''t really blame the insurance company. You just hope they''ll be able to come up with the goods.

I look forward to seeing what you get!

 

[laney]

Ok - so I''m back from the insurer''s jeweler.

And no replacment yet. Overall, if I was an average person - I think I would be very happy right now. Since no Pscoper is average... here''s my experience.

I went to see the stones that the jeweler had briefly described. Only one of his stones was an H&A (what I wanted) but he showed me what he had anyway.

I objectively - meaning "un-aided"... (without pscope! lol!) looked at the stones. I didn''t find any I liked. He did try to show me the best he had in his range. And one - that was within what I thought was good proportions.. but it wasn''t H&A. And although it did display some H&A arrows.... looking into that diamond was different than looking into mine? Does that even make sense.. if it does at all you all here will understand.

I used the cover over with my hand thing too...

So I was able to bring home the AGS certs and plug them into the calculator. And wha la - the stone that was the best candidate but not H&A scored a .8 on the HCA. The others he showed me scored a 3 and a 2.3. I knew something was up with those stones. Just kidding - but really - I must have learned a lot here by hanging out.. All the stones had a slightly smaller diameter than my stone. In fact, even the best stone wasn''t at the average diameter for a 1.5 ctw. Just slightly off. All were AGS000''s

So, they are going to cut me a check. I will have final say on it though. I am going to see how much they actually give me.. and think about it - if I can replace it myself with that money. If not - I can have their jeweler conduct a longer more exhaustive search before I accept a settlement. Frankly - he was happy to be rid of me. He was really friendly -and understood my "wants" to replace it with like & kind.

Soo the saga continues.. but I do feel the end is near. and it hasn''t been a full week yet - so I guess that''s actually great!

 

[Mara]

good for you laney...stick to your guns and try to get that check for at least an amount to replace it with what you had...and you can always add a bit more to it to go bigger if you want. if you are lucky you may get a bit more!! but i agree, don''t settle...you know what you want. great progress so far!!

what will they do with the old stone? did you relinquish it?

 

[Lynn B]

This has been a very informative thread, Laney. Thanks for sharing your experience. We are all raptly following it and keeping our fingers crossed for you!

Lynn

 

[strmrdr]

What I would do is call GOG and have him find a comparable for you.
Then if the amount they offer isnt enough to get it you can say this is how much a truely comparable stone is from the original dealer and have a leg to stand on insisting on that amount.

 

[strmrdr]

also wanted to say they may want GOG to fax something to them about it being a comparable diamond and why its comparable and pricing info.
They always want paperwork.

We do it all the time with computers.

They offer a low end dell and for a lot of people its a nice upgrade.
But for others that have more specialised computers its a rip off.
We write up a summary of whats special about the computer they lost and why the one offered isnt comparable or the amount offered isnt enough to buy a comparable computer.

 

[youngster]

Hey Laney, this has been really informative. Thanks for posting in such detail. I know that''s cold comfort but at least you can replace your stone with exactly what you had (or better!).

 

[baroque]

Hi, this is my first post to this forum, I have been reading it for awhile.
We had a claim on our insurance for my 1.32 carat(which chipped), it was an SI2, G-H and very eye-clean. The jeweler I chose came up with some poor examples of what they considered like-kind-quality and it was a huge hassle because they were really ugly compared to mine. Unfortunately, we had a very limited appraisal, more like a certificate of value kind of thing, so we were pretty much stuck. Very long story very short, we decided to take the cash, which was about 1/2 of what we had been paying insurance on (Farmer''s Insurance) because that''s what they could get it for with a wholesaler, that''s the way they look at it, and then we added money to it to buy a 1.5 carat VS2 I with a GIA certification and an independant appraisal, and insured it for less than the appraised value, basically for what we know we could replace it for.

I am very interested to hear how this works out with Allstate. It already sounds like you are getting much better service than we did, and you are lucky that you are so informed about your diamond, they can''t pull one over on you! I really wish that I had found this forum sooner!

baroque

 

[Lynn B]

Wow, Storm, you made a great suggestion. I would think that any documentation from GOG would carry A LOT of weight, and I''m sure Jon would happily accommodate.

Lynn

 

[diamondlil]

Thank you, Laney, for keeping us updated. This thread had been very informative.

I think a letter from GOG is a brilliant idea, Strmrdr. As far as the insurance company writing a check, it seems to me they have to at least give you a check for the amount you have been paying your insurance premium on, right? Was the diamond insured for a little more than you actually paid for it? If so, then you should be in good shape. I can''t imagine the insurance company offering you a check for the "wholesale" price (like in baroque''s example) when you have been paying your insurance premium on a larger amount. That is just wrong.

Stick with it, Laney. With the education you have gotten here at PS, I know it will all work out.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 7/15/2005 7:05:02 AM
Author: diamondlil
As far as the insurance company writing a check, it seems to me they have to at least give you a check for the amount you have been paying your insurance premium on, right? Was the diamond insured for a little more than you actually paid for it? If so, then you should be in good shape. I can't imagine the insurance company offering you a check for the 'wholesale' price (like in baroque's example) when you have been paying your insurance premium on a larger amount. That is just wrong.

diamondlil,
unfortunatley that is exactly how most homeowner's policy's do it. this just happened to me. I was paying for $8000 worth of coverage. Their jeweler can replace it with like kind for $5000, so that's what I get to cash out. $5000 not the $8000 I've been paying premiuns on. Hopefully Laney's detailed appraisal will help find a suitable replacement b/c in all likelyhood taking the cash will be less than switching stones.

ETA: since, finding PS and learing I do realize that the appraisal I had on file was "high" and it was my responsiblilty to
make sure I'm not overpaying for something. i recently had a new appraisal done by Richard Sherwood which was much more accurate and used his retail value rather than an overinflated number used by many jewelers. If laney's appraisal was like Diamondlil said, "close to what she paid" she should be in good shape

many people are shocked when they cash out that they don't get a check for the amount they are insuring. this is why policy's like Chubb are very appealing.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/15/2005 7:05:02 AM
Author: diamondlil
Thank you, Laney, for keeping us updated. This thread had been very informative.


I think a letter from GOG is a brilliant idea, Strmrdr. As far as the insurance company writing a check, it seems to me they have to at least give you a check for the amount you have been paying your insurance premium on, right? Was the diamond insured for a little more than you actually paid for it? If so, then you should be in good shape. I can''t imagine the insurance company offering you a check for the ''wholesale'' price (like in baroque''s example) when you have been paying your insurance premium on a larger amount. That is just wrong.

Stick with it, Laney. With the education you have gotten here at PS, I know it will all work out.

This is not legal or insurance advise yada yada yada.

With most appraisals you will never get close to the amount insured.
Their first offer will be wholesale cost of the diamond.
Dont accept it.
Its a negotiation.
Its your job to get enough to cover the lose.
Its there job to make you go away as cheaply as possible.
As long as you can prove your case you can usualy get it.
Keep in mind i deal with them on computers but its the same game.

 

[laney]

I surrendered the stone. I spoke to them about them briefly about what they do with the salvage. I figured that they attempt to recut it - and keep as much weight as possible. I assume that mine could still probably end up more than a carat or so. He confirmed that they do cut - but said that salvage is not always good - sometime the dimamonds "explode" when attempting to re-cut them and then it would be a total loss... I didn''t ask anymore about the "exploding" diamonds..


Hey strmdr - I''m in the computer line of buisness as well - so I clearly understand your example. I have started working with Johnathan, and I''m sure he''ll try to help. I had all of his stuff the first time - and that''s what the insurance has on record, so similar stones will be easy to compare "apples" to "apples".

But I was nervous about the meeting yesterday, if I could tell "in person" with out the aid of all the reports. I hadn''t been diamond shopping in person since we bought it.. But, in fact, I could. Which actually did surprise me, well, a little.


You know, so far, we are getting good service - but I am also demanding it. So, an informed decision is always the best one.

But I do know that the amount that they will give WILL inevitablely be lower than the insured amount. So I am crossing my fingers that it will be enough. If not - I still have options to put it back on the insurers jeweler to keep searching for a stone. The thing is.. the insurers "JEWELER" sets the amount FOR the insurance company. So my hope is I impressed upon him my search for like & kind.. and that he knows that what I am looking for is not the average stone.

I should get a call this morning!

 

[claimsjeff]

An insurance policy is a contract between the policyholder and the insurer. Both have rights and duties. Though I am the first to admit they are not the most exciting text you ever will read, it is important to know your rights. Most insurance policies(auto, home, stand-alone policies) have a condition called Appraisal. Essentially it says if you(the policyholder) and the insurer do not agree on the amount of loss or value either party may elect to go through the appraisal process. Essentially you would have someone that represents you on the value, the insurer would have theirs, and the two appraisers would choose an umpire. The three would come to a decision on the value which is binding on both parties.

It''s also important to read the section about "Settlement or How Much we Pay" which is in all policies. It will describe to you if this is at Actual Cash Value, Replacement Cost, Replacement, and/or any other provision.

Good Luck!

Jeff Mills
VP Claims
Jewelers Mutual Insurance Co.

 

[Kaleigh]

Keep us posted laney. Sounds like things are going in the right direction!!!!

 

[laney]

Thank you ClaimsJeff.

Your comments are really helpful! I will check into what that process would be even if the amount is satisfactory. It will be good to know, as of course, we will need to insure the next stone, and knowing what the full process is it it should come to that is highly valuable.

I may need that information sooner rather than later, but here''s keeping my fingers crossed that I don''t.

One thing that has been a bit frustrating is getting the insurance company/adjuster to explain the entire process. I would like them to clearly explain, step by step, what the process is, and on several occasions I got "I''m not sure". That''s fine - but then when I spoke to the acutal adjuster she kept saying "that''s all you need to know for now". I got very frustrated with that, and asked(in the nicest way possible) for her to answer the question I asked. Basically, she said "oh I''ll call you tomorrow and well talk about it then". That worked a few times, but I e-mailed her twice, and she clearly avoided the "next step question".

I sent her a reply saying "please answer the following question" (nicer than that...) and she didn''t reply.

The next day, on the phone, I asked again, what are the next steps. She kept saying "you''re getting ahead of yourself here. .. wait until tomorrow and we''ll see". Then I stopped her, and said, please answer my question. She did. But she clearly didn''t want to. I explained that I just wanted to know the normal process that happens so that I have the right expectations, and know what I need to do.

All is good. In general, I don''t like to be lead on a string. The full process is not a secret. They do it every day.

Here''s hoping for the best!

 

[laney]

YEAY!!!!!

It''s done!!!!!

I got the number. It''s definately satisfactory - and I will be able to replace my stone "LIKE & KIND" through my vendor of choice with the amount

YEAY!!!! (doing happy dance)

Ok... have to make some calls. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!!! I''ll post about my new choice.. shortly! LOL!

For those following my saga - I''ll post the details in summary in an hour or so. Just so that you can have an idea of what I got. I''m happy obviously

 

[strmrdr]

Way kewl :}

 

[baroque]

You''re right, settling with the insurance company is a negotiation, and being as informed about what you are replacing is the only way to "win" in that situation.

For example, my diamond was lovely for an SI2, really. What they were bringing in to compare were same specs (what I had, which was not enough! Size-Color-Carat...period) but clearly lesser quality overall. Not having complete details hurt me. If I had it to do over again now.......I''d have the chipped diamond fully appraised by an independent appraiser to be able to complete the specs as I have learned a little about by reading pricescope. Why didn''t I think of that then? I don''t know.

So, by the time the insurance company started talking with "my" jeweler, they were cutting deals with them! And then when the jeweler couldn''t find a diamond (wouldn''t find) that was to my satisfaction ("these are SI2, G-H in color, 1.32 carats" he would say) I got really frustrated with the whole process and was convinced that these stones were the best I could do and felt my only option was to take the money and upgrade....with a different jeweler. Most people don''t understand all of the things that make a diamond beautiful, and I couldn''t figure out before why the ones that he was bringing in didn''t come even close to the sparkle and life of my diamond. Now I better understand. I wish I knew then what I am learning now, it would have saved me some tears.

So, I guess my advice would be to know everything you can about your diamond and have it in writing so that you can, like Laney has, say...."well, not quite!~keep trying!"~IF they don''t offer you a decent cash out to go shopping.
Good luck!

 

[diamondlil]

YAY for you, Laney!!!

I bet the insurance company realized it was going to cost them more money in man hours to find you a like-kind stone that would be acceptable to you than to just turn a check over to you. Your PS knowledge definitely paid off. I can''t wait to see your new (bigger, better, nicer?

) stone.

 

[Patty]

Hooray Laney!

I''m so glad that you can now choose a stone yourself.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/15/2005 9:34:14 AM
Author: laney
YEAY!!!!!

It''s done!!!!!

I got the number. It''s definately satisfactory - and I will be able to replace my stone ''LIKE & KIND'' through my vendor of choice with the amount

YEAY!!!! (doing happy dance)

Ok... have to make some calls. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!!! I''ll post about my new choice.. shortly! LOL!

For those following my saga - I''ll post the details in summary in an hour or so. Just so that you can have an idea of what I got. I''m happy obviously

Make sure that "satisfactory" number includes any labor involved in setting the stone, etc. And, is it truly enough for you to replace with like kind? You are trying to be reasonable. They are trying to be reasonable. But, it is a negotiation.

I figured they would give you a settlement. They want to take the easiest road. In each case, they did with us. When our house was broken into, the biggest loss was to replace our front door. It was an elaborate early 19th century door. All they asked was to fax an estimate from the miller. They paid w/o any questions.

 

[laney]

Date: 7/15/2005 10:19:41 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/15/2005 9:34:14 AM

Make sure that 'satisfactory' number includes any labor involved in setting the stone, etc. And, is it truly enough for you to replace with like kind? You are trying to be reasonable. They are trying to be reasonable. But, it is a negotiation.

Yep, it is satisfactory. Honestly, more than I expected. I can say that I am happy with the process. I had a number in mind (outside of the insurance process.. based on sourcing the stone from an internet vendor myself..yada yada) and that's what they settled. It is less than the "insured amount" but not by much at all. The insured amount was the apprasial amount, out of the two apprasials I sent the higher valued one (only due to details) - so in the end - the strange math worked out fine.

I do feel that I can replace like & kind including hassle with the amount.

I agree it's a negotiation, and you have to hang in there!

 

[fire&ice]

Great - sounds like a win-win for both parties. Really, most people wouldn''t know how to begin to replace the diamond. In their cases, a jeweler is the way to go for ease. But, not PS''ers!

 

[SquareCut]

This is great news! Have fun shopping. I can''t believe it happened so quickly! You just went to look at stones yesterday. They must be afraid of you! Is it that difficult to find a well cut stone that they just give up after 1 day?